Does Top Gun 2 increase likely hood of us getting a E, what'd ya think?

[Digitalvole]

If the E becomes the new Tomcat do you think that will increase the likely hood of us getting an A10C II like upgrade at some point? 

For me I think on the one hand an increase in popularity of the airframe would make it seem like a good money earner. But on the other hand I get the feeling ED ran into unforeseen issues with some of the C’s systems being a bit more classified than previously thought. If that is the case it seems highly unlikely we’ll ever see the E.

I hope I’m wrong, what fo you folks think?

Edited May 21, 2022 by Digitalvole

[Hulkbust44]

There's no "upgrade" like the A-10, outside of the cockpit there is almost zero commonality between the Rhino and the legacy. Completely different aircraft.

I would love an E/F model. Sure as hell ED won't do it, at minimum the first block Rhinos had identical avionics and software to the Legacies and the only thing that makes the current DCS legacy Hornet a Charlie is the engine performance. They call the radar the AN/APG-73, but it underperforms any radar ever put in a Hornet.

ED has the data, they just struggle to make the connections between system without explicit descriptions. It would help if ED actually understood and bothered to model radar at all.

In short, there would absolutely be demand for it, but with the current Charlie having half the systems of even an A+ I wouldn't trust ED to do it.

If Heatblur did it, I would gladly pay hundreds for the exponential leap in capability. It would still have to be an early block as no one is going anywhere near AESA data.

[upyr1]

The e would be awesome. 

[Evoman]

I think an D variant based on the current legacy hornet could totally be feasible if there is enough demand for it. That is the best realistic option possible.

 

 

 

[Hulkbust44]

I think an D variant based on the current legacy hornet could totally be feasible if there is enough demand for it. That is the best realistic option possible.
 

 
 

It's just a C with 2 seats. No new capability. An F is actually a completely different aircraft.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, maybe there'll be enough clamor for the Superbug that someone will make it. Ideally HB, so that we'd get both E and F, with Jester flying backseat in the latter. It'd have to be a very early version (both to correspond to DCS timeframe and because later ones are classified), but even that would be pretty awesome. 

[FrostLaufeyson]

My only wish is that they can complete Lot 20

[SkateZilla]

8 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

If the E becomes the new Tomcat do you think that will increase the likely hood of us getting an A10C II like upgrade at some point? 

For me I think on the one hand an increase in popularity of the airframe would make it seem like a good money earner. But on the other hand I get the feeling ED ran into unforeseen issues with some of the C’s systems being a bit more classified than previously thought. If that is the case it seems highly unlikely we’ll ever see the E.

I hope I’m wrong, what fo you folks think?

 

Not Likely anytime soon, Motion Picture sales are not what determine's ED's product and development flow or selections

8 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

There's no "upgrade" like the A-10, outside of the cockpit there is almost zero commonality between the Rhino and the legacy. Completely different aircraft.

I would love an E/F model. Sure as hell ED won't do it, at minimum the first block Rhinos had identical avionics and software to the Legacies and the only thing that makes the current DCS legacy Hornet a Charlie is the engine performance. They call the radar the AN/APG-73, but it underperforms any radar ever put in a Hornet.

ED has the data, they just struggle to make the connections between system without explicit descriptions. It would help if ED actually understood and bothered to model radar at all.

In short, there would absolutely be demand for it, but with the current Charlie having half the systems of even an A+ I wouldn't trust ED to do it.

If Heatblur did it, I would gladly pay hundreds for the exponential leap in capability. It would still have to be an early block as no one is going anywhere near AESA data.

Not Exactly True, F/A-18E/F Block I through Lot 21->24 Had a significant (higher than 85%) commonality between the cockpit systems of the F/A-18C Lot 20/21 cockpits.

3 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

4 hours ago, Evoman said:

I think an D variant based on the current legacy hornet could totally be feasible if there is enough demand for it. That is the best realistic option possible.
 

 
 

It's just a C with 2 seats. No new capability. An F is actually a completely different aircraft.

USMC F/A-18D's arent just a C w/ 2 Seats

4 hours ago, Evoman said:

I think an D variant based on the current legacy hornet could totally be feasible if there is enough demand for it. That is the best realistic option possible.

 

 

 

If we stick to USN D Models, most of those were reserved for training and training sqns.

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Well, maybe there'll be enough clamor for the Superbug that someone will make it. Ideally HB, so that we'd get both E and F, with Jester flying backseat in the latter. It'd have to be a very early version (both to correspond to DCS timeframe and because later ones are classified), but even that would be pretty awesome. 

Not anytime soon.

28 minutes ago, FrostLaufeyson said:

My only wish is that they can complete Lot 20

This, Complete Lot 20.

Edited May 22, 2022 by SkateZilla

[upyr1]

33 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Not Likely anytime soon, Motion Picture sales are not what determine's ED's product and development flow or selections

Interest and what is accessible does.

35 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Not Likely anytime soon, Motion Picture sales are not what determine's ED's product and development flow or selections

Not Exactly True, F/A-18E/F Block I through Lot 21->24 Had a significant (higher than 85%) commonality between the cockpit systems of the F/A-18C Lot 20/21 cockpits.

The commonality increases the odds.

35 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

USMC F/A-18D's arent just a C w/ 2 Seats

If we stick to USN D Models, most of those were reserved for training and training sqns.

Not anytime soon.

This, Complete Lot 20.

 

If that is the case then the usmc d sounds interesting 

[Digitalvole]

Wags has said they’d love to do it but there very busy right now so haven’t looked into it. There’s hope in that statement and if Top Gun 2 is a smash then who knows.

I agree, finish the C first of course. 

[Tank50us]

1 hour ago, Digitalvole said:

Wags has said they’d love to do it but there very busy right now so haven’t looked into it. There’s hope in that statement and if Top Gun 2 is a smash then who knows.

I agree, finish the C first of course. 

It'd be a huge gamble for sure. If Top Gun Maverick is a huge success, they'd have to find a way to capitalize on it quickly. Keep in mind that it takes up to two years to make a module from scratch, so any module made and sold within six months of Top Guns release would have to have been something in the works for at least a year before being announced. And most of the third parties aren't up to it right now, so they'd have to bring in a new one.

There's other challenges as well. For starters, how do you sell the Super Hornet? It might seem like a silly question, but in the context of DCS, it's actually a serious one. How exactly do you sell it? Anyone that isn't coming out of the theater going "I have to have it" is going to look at the Super Hornet, and then the Legacy Hornet they already have and go "Why should I buy that?" What does the Super Hornet offer, in terms of capability, that the legacy hornet doesn't?

Now, sure, the Super hornet does offer a number of capabilities that the legacy doesn't. Having two extra stores, larger internal fuel tanks, a reduced RCS, and more. But in DCS, these may not be enough to get people throwing their credit cards at their monitors, and this will effectively mean that in order to sell a Super Hornet, you can't just go with any version of the aircraft, you have to select the F. Why? Because while the legacy hornet offers only a single seat, the Super Hornet can offer Multi-crew, which is known to be quite popular.

Now, who makes this thing? The obvious first choice would be Eagle Dynamics themselves, since they already made the F/A-18C Lot20, which shares many systems with the Block 1 Super Hornet, making an expansion on this would be a good marketing move. Make the models, and flight model, port the systems, add the multi-crew functions, kick out the door, watch the money rain, right? If only it were that easy.

A third party module would be possible, but there's no way to know how long it'll take from the moment they announce it, although the strategy of keeping it quiet until ready for release is one that would shock the DCS Community, and many would buy it right then and there. The catch here is that any team working on it would have to make all of these systems from scratch, something ED's been refining for what? About five years now with the legacy hornet? Talk about reinventing the wheel.

Anyway, I do see the potential for Top Gun 2 to increase the demand for the Super Hornet, but I have to urge extreme caution that if a module were to be made, it would take at least a year or more to come out. So those who want the Super Hornet, need to really want it by that point, and not just be on the hype train from Top Gun.

[CarbonFox]

I'd welcome just an AI version of the E/F Super Hornet at this point just to have a carrier deck more reflective of the mid to late-2000s.

[Furiz]

Hornet is not even finished yet, lets get that done first. Making SuperHornet now would kill the sales of Hornet (specially if 3rd party does it), why would you buy Hornet if you can have better for same money.

But if we are to have new airframe I'd rather they invest time in something other than US jet (Rafale, Gripen, EF is coming yey, J10, Flankers, Fulcrums etc etc.....), ofc they make what they can but investing time in yet another Hornet... maybe in 5 years from when current model gets finished.

expanding current Hornet to 2 seat variant if enough interest maybe yea but rly not needed since you can do all with single seat version anyway.

[sirrah]

18 minutes ago, Furiz said:

 Making SuperHornet now would kill the sales of Hornet (specially if 3rd party does it), why would you buy Hornet if you can have better for same money.

Well, if you look at it that way, why do people still buy the F-86, Viggen, MiG-21, etc. (just to name a few) 

 

Personally there are quite a few other airframes I'd prefer first, but sure, I'd probably buy the E if it were available.

[Furiz]

42 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Well, if you look at it that way, why do people still buy the F-86, Viggen, MiG-21, etc. (just to name a few) 

cause those are different aircraft

Hornet to Super Hornet makes Legacy Hornet absolete, yea Superhornet is different as well but it doesn't make much of a dieference.

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, Tank50us said:

There's other challenges as well. For starters, how do you sell the Super Hornet? It might seem like a silly question, but in the context of DCS, it's actually a serious one. How exactly do you sell it? Anyone that isn't coming out of the theater going "I have to have it" is going to look at the Super Hornet, and then the Legacy Hornet they already have and go "Why should I buy that?" What does the Super Hornet offer, in terms of capability, that the legacy hornet doesn't?

This is exactly the reason I suggested that Eagle should do a variant discount based on how much code they share. As I expect the people willing to buy both would increase with the discount. 

[Digitalvole]

I’m not the only one who asked the question it seems, almost identical title too. Not me btw

[Digitalvole]

On 5/22/2022 at 4:58 PM, Furiz said:

cause those are different aircraft

Hornet to Super Hornet makes Legacy Hornet absolete, yea Superhornet is different as well but it doesn't make much of a dieference.

But doesn’t the A10C II render the A10C obsolete? That model of upgrade is how I picture us one day getting the E.

I know that the C isn’t finished yet and I certainly wouldn’t expect this to happen for at least a couple of years if at all, but the popularity of the Tomcat today has a lot to do with a film that was released over 30 years ago. If the same happens for the Hornet (unlikely I think) then it’s not a matter of it needing to be released to coincide with the hype for the film.

Personally I think it won’t happen because info on the avionics stuff is probably restricted, isn’t that the case with some of the stuff in the C we thought we’d be getting? 

[Furiz]

10 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

But doesn’t the A10C II render the A10C obsolete? That model of upgrade is how I picture us one day getting the E.

Have you noticed the time that has passed between the 2 releases? it didn't happen right after the C was out right?

 

I did say in my post, superhornet maybe after 5 years

[Digitalvole]

33 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Have you noticed the time that has passed between the 2 releases? it didn't happen right after the C was out right?

Oh absolutely, but at the same time circumstances are different, there wasn’t a blockbuster movie released about A10C pilots. 

ED may (or may not) see a chance to make money from a “new” module that may bring new people into DCS without the workload or starting from scratch.

 

[Furiz]

2 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

Oh absolutely, but at the same time circumstances are different, there wasn’t a blockbuster movie released about A10C pilots. 

ED may (or may not) see a chance to make money from a “new” module that may bring new people into DCS without the workload or starting from scratch.

 

But do you realize that they would have to make (spend time and resources) completely new module - new avionics, new flight model, new 3d model etc - (they look the same but are not the same), for which they don't have a license (they probably have to buy it = invest money) and in the end they would have to charge it 80 bucks right?

So those that bought Legacy Hornet get a discount, but those that didn't get to pay 80 for it, so they wont buy Legacy but Super Hornet obviously (not talking here about module collectors those are few)

now most of their effort (time and resources) into Legacy Hornet goes down the drain cause they made the an upgraded Hornet, which can do all the stuff Legacy Hornet can and even more and even better,

but hey a movie came out... :D

 

Don't get me wrong I'd love to have it, as many modern jets as we can get, I just think that if their resources should be focused on some other jet, Europe or Russian and China if enough data is available off course so we expand our little modern jets family, than on developing a better version of something we have already and that version is not even finished yet.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Furiz

[Digitalvole]

I don’t want to debate over hypotheticals, mainly because I don’t think it’ll happen anyway for other reasons.

To remodel the C to an E most of the work is already done, I’d argue the same for the flight model, weapons and (probably) avionics. Of course I’m not a dev so there’s that  but I do have some 3D modelling experience. (Was a hobby of mine for about 15 years.)

Im probably looking at from the consumer perspective rather than the business perspective.

Business says: let’s not make one of our products redundant.

Consumer says: We want the best possible product.

Not saying one’s right and ones wrong btw.

[cfrag]

25 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Im probably looking at from the consumer perspective rather than the business perspective.

Business says: let’s not make one of our products redundant.

Consumer says: We want the best possible product.

I say: I want them all. I own the A-10A, C, CII. I own the Bug, and of course I'd get a Rhino, like I'll get the Mudhen even though I own the Charlie Eagle. But then, I buy anything DCS. Oh, and I got the Tomcat and Apache - despite having watched "Top Gun" and "Fire Birds" (two of the worst movies I ever saw  - loved "Blue Thunder", though).

[Evoman]

6 hours ago, cfrag said:

I say: I want them all. I own the A-10A, C, CII. I own the Bug, and of course I'd get a Rhino, like I'll get the Mudhen even though I own the Charlie Eagle. But then, I buy anything DCS. Oh, and I got the Tomcat and Apache - despite having watched "Top Gun" and "Fire Birds" (two of the worst movies I ever saw  - loved "Blue Thunder", though).

It's interesting how some of the worst movies to some are the ones that inspired many for generations. Not only that but it actually altered history for some as the Navy saw the highest enlistment for years after Top Gun was released.

Here are just a few comments I had run across for the Top Gun Maverick trailer.

"Brilliant film…was worth the wait, for me bought back a lot of memories when I was kid wondering where I’ll go in life, saw Top Gun in the 80s and said I want to be a pilot when I grow up, managed to fly commercial, inspiration finds you in strange ways…"

"My dad introduced me to Topgun movie when I was a kid. Watched it with him. He explained movie parts that I didn't understand. My dad served in the military. Now he is no more. Hearing this old BGM brings back memories of my Dad, my childhood. Emotions run high in my mind. I wish if he was alive and could sit beside me to watch the upcoming part together.... Eagerly waiting for the movie. Its quite nostalgic to me."

"I’m about to retire after 25 years of being a “Goose”. Sad to let go of my dream but this movie will be a nice send off and I’ll leave grateful that the dream was fulfilled."

"I can't begin to express how meaningful this movie was to me as a child. Having it come back now brings me back to the 80s, a simpler time when I had less troubles and spent my time in the movie theatres, watching 2-3 movies at a time in one go. Step out of one theatre, enter the next, only pay once."

"When the first Top Gun came out, I was an immigrant living in America. The first Top Gun made me want to be an American. Movies like Top Gun, G.I jane and shows like JAG made me want to join the military. Years have gone by, life has happened, my dreams changed. Now I am a proud American, and watching this trailer has brought back those dreams again."

"My fav movie . Watched the first part way back in college in 97.. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot in the Air Force. Not sure why, but it made me change my mind and I joined the IN in 2002. Have retired but the soldier in me refuses to die.. A big shout out to all the Men in Uniform.. Miss my good old days ."

"YES!!! I watched this movie everyday as a teen!!!!"

"My dad was a huge fan of top gun and let me watch this as a kid and it became my favourite film ever! Sadly he passed away last year and we never got to see the sequel he so longed to see because of all the covid delays I’ll be seeing this for you in May Dad !"

"

Remember seeing the OG in theaters when it came out in 1986...I was 16 and already a big TC fan. I remember at the people cheering at the end of the movie and an overwhelming sense of patriotism!!! This is what we need at the this very moment!! I can't wait to see it and hoping for the same response!!! Long live Mother Goose!!"

 

[rcjonessnp175]

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