investigating Large performance drop in VR after updating to 2.8

[C3PO]

8 hours ago, Flappie said:

It's not an excuse, it's just a solution for people rejecting the OB inconveniences.

Genuine question, but were any performance issues picked up in testing with 2.8 in VR before release to OB?

Edited November 22, 2022 by C3PO

[darkman222]

I really hate this off topic. But let me put it that way. In case the performance drop once will be carried out to stable branch, if ED cant eliminate the reasons here in open beta, then I would consider DCS being split in two branches rather useless. If the performance drop stays in OB only, this would be the perfect proof that the concept of stable+beta is made use to full extent.

Lets wait and see what happens over time to the stable version. In the meantime people in OB are the ones who feed the developers with testing data.

[Convexrook]

SOME HOT MESS being dragged over the forums, time to hop on my playstation and play some  God of War Ragnorok 

[Fisu_MAD]

Why not give some support to OPENXR, it was promised long ago that ED would work on improving the VR experience, but every time there is a graphical update, VR users are penalized without. Now in STEAMVR the experience is terrible.

[Talisman_VR]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:50 AM, martinistripes said:

Again, people not appreciating that they're on open beta.

"ED ruined my game. I can't play anymore"  

"Yes, you can. Run stable" 

(It's still on 2.7 and just as good as what you were happily enjoying without complaint a few weeks ago).

You can't test all the fancy bells and whistles of such complex software development and expect a highly polished experience.

 

Stable version no good for me and many others who are all about MP and not much interested in SP.  Due to the DCS business model the beta version is more often than not the version used for the best MP servers.

Happy landings,

Talisman  

[silverdevil]

2 hours ago, Talisman_VR said:

Stable version no good for me and many others who are all about MP and not much interested in SP.  Due to the DCS business model the beta version is more often than not the version used for the best MP servers.

Happy landings,

Talisman  

DCS releases both OB and stable releases. they do no require any server admins to run either version. most people prefer the beta because it has the latest new things not showing in the stable version until later. it is not really a business model IMO. i am an SP only player and also one of the many that do not have problems except for bugs. the bugs are reported and eventually ED will fix. that the whole point of OB. if you are an SP only player, then play whatever feels right for you. so what if all the SP servers run beta?

[C3PO]

3 hours ago, Talisman_VR said:

Stable version no good for me and many others who are all about MP and not much interested in SP.  Due to the DCS business model the beta version is more often than not the version used for the best MP servers.

Happy landings,

Talisman  

Exactly.

[muzica9]

also have 30-50% perfomance drop in vr.

for testing: f-16 ready on ramp caucas. 2.7, all on high settings. terrain shadows on default - 40 fps.

2.8 -  terrain shadows off - 30 fps. with terrain shadows flat or default goes to 25 fps = unplayable

personaly, i don't think this will be ever solved. it's new 2.8, new clouds, etc. so we have to get use to it.

shame. vr users need more performance improvements, not moving clouds and rainbows with 30-50% perfomance drop.

as i can not play in 25-30 fps ,i stick with 2.7 stable, for the moment. but cbu-97 ccip falling short and other bugs, are also killing me in 2.7. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by muzica9

[darkman222]

Then VR users need an option to disable all the beauty which is nice, but unnecessary for gameplay and make DCS ugly but playable again. If the performance drop will be carried over to stable branch its basically over and we can wait another 3 years of hardware progession to get back to 2.7 performance level.

Edited November 25, 2022 by darkman222

[muzica9]

Just now, darkman222 said:

Then VR users need an option to disable all the beauty which is nice, but unnecessary for gameplay and make DCS ugly but playable again.

or at least release a stable version with bug fixes without moving clouds and city night lights.

[C3PO]

I think the Open Beta needs specific VR performance tests before release. With so many having issues, hard to understand that it wasn't experienced somewhere, pre-release.

[muzica9]

7 minutes ago, C3PO said:

With so many having issues, hard to understand that it wasn't experienced somewhere, pre-release.

after reading a lot of comments and topics, it seems that they don't care about vr to much.

Edited November 25, 2022 by muzica9

[darkman222]

8 minutes ago, C3PO said:

I think the Open Beta needs specific VR performance tests before release. With so many having issues, hard to understand that it wasn't experienced somewhere, pre-release.

I guess it was experienced by EDs VR testers but the considerations were to find out how the acceptance of the community was for improved visuals vs performance loss. Dont under estimate that the beta branch is also a market research tool.

[C3PO]

1 minute ago, darkman222 said:

I guess it was experienced by EDs VR testers but the considerations were to find out how the acceptance of the community was for improved visuals vs performance loss. Dont under estimate that the beta branch is also a market research tool.

The rate of performance loss would make it hard to see how it might be accepted. But then again I don't know the ratio of VR v Pancake users, and in 2D there is much less of an issue., Regardless, there needs to be some kind of VR performance monitor, IMO, as it is the future.

[Cab]

1 hour ago, C3PO said:

I think the Open Beta needs specific VR performance tests before release. With so many having issues, hard to understand that it wasn't experienced somewhere, pre-release.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Cab

[Talisman_VR]

23 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Then VR users need an option to disable all the beauty which is nice, but unnecessary for gameplay and make DCS ugly but playable again. If the performance drop will be carried over to stable branch its basically over and we can wait another 3 years of hardware progession to get back to 2.7 performance level.

 

Interesting point.  If this gets carried over to the stable version then the situation will be even worse. 

Happy landings,

Talisman

22 hours ago, muzica9 said:

after reading a lot of comments and topics, it seems that they don't care about vr to much.

 

It is a great shame that this is the impression we get as VR customers. 

Happy landings,

Talisman

[Talisman_VR]

On 11/25/2022 at 4:36 PM, silverdevil said:

DCS releases both OB and stable releases. they do no require any server admins to run either version. most people prefer the beta because it has the latest new things not showing in the stable version until later. it is not really a business model IMO. i am an SP only player and also one of the many that do not have problems except for bugs. the bugs are reported and eventually ED will fix. that the whole point of OB. if you are an SP only player, then play whatever feels right for you. so what if all the SP servers run beta?

Sorry, but having trouble understanding the points you are trying to make.

As I said, I am not much interested in SP.  For me and many others DCS is all about on-line MP flying with squad mates, friends and other human beings.  And some of us are helicopter pilots flying low level on popular MP servers, which makes the fps drop even worse to cope with.

It is the DCS business model to run open beta that leads to all the best MP action and best servers running open beta.  Other flight simulations run a different business model by way of closed beta testing which does not split the community between two versions of the game.  The trouble with the DCS business model is that it leads to a split in the community between 2 versions of the same game. 

Different business models have different outcomes.  One of the outcomes of the DCS business model is a split community between the standard release version and the open beta version which also feeds into the sub split between folks who only fly SP or only fly MP or fly a bit of both.

Happy landings,

Talisman

[Cab]

23 minutes ago, Talisman_VR said:

It is the DCS business model to run open beta that leads to all the best MP action and best servers running open beta. 

 How is this ED's business model? Server owners are free to choose OB or Stable. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Cab

[SharpeXB]

28 minutes ago, Cab said:

 How is this ED's business model? 

Because it’s ED’s decision to have an open Beta. They could have a closed Beta, then there wouldn’t be a split in the MP community. But it would probably take longer to track and fix bugs. 

[Cab]

45 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Because it’s ED’s decision to have an open Beta. They could have a closed Beta, then there wouldn’t be a split in the MP community. But it would probably take longer to track and fix bugs. 

This is getting old.

Server owners are free to pick and choose which version they want to run. If open beta is that bad, players should be asking the server owners why they run it.

maybe that should be the new thread; asking server owners why they run open beta.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Cab

[slughead]

None of this is actually helping ED solve the problem. Also, folks can roll back to previous beta versions until this is fixed. 

[SharpeXB]

34 minutes ago, Cab said:

Server owners are free to pick and choose which version they want to run.

Not really. They’re just following their player’s preferences. If they didn’t keep running the latest version, not enough would play there. They don’t set the market they just follow it. ED effectively makes the OB their release version no matter what it’s called. 

34 minutes ago, Cab said:

If open beta is that bad

Well clearly it’s not “that bad” despite this issue if most players still prefer it. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by SharpeXB

[darkman222]

I have installed stable along side with beta. What do you guys say now? Please stay on topic and move the OB vs stable discussion to a separate thread.

Now I even have a direct comparison between OB and stable. And I am really sad when I see a bandit aircraft like a slide show passing me in a dogfight in latest OB.

Again : Stay on topic and provide testing data. That performance drop stands in no relation to what we gained in visual appearance of DCS in the latest OB release.

Edited November 27, 2022 by darkman222

[Baldrick33]

15 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Not really. They’re just following their player’s preferences. If they didn’t keep running the latest version, not enough would play there. They don’t set the market they just follow it. ED effectively makes the OB their release version no matter what it’s called.

I think the Open Beta concept is quite sound. People get to choose if they want to be early adopters of the shiny new stuff, with the knowledge there are risks some stuff might get broken. This isn't some kind of corporate app which undergoes massively time consuming regression testing to ensure there isn't a bug in the reporting output (with a standard build client PC), the users provide feedback across a myriad of hardware and volume of testing which a smaller closed group could never achieve.

Personally I would prefer a more conservative approach to promoting to stable, such that stable is a more bug free environment but I guess ED know that the majority would prefer not to wait too long for new modules and updates.

The multiplayer aspect is a massive conflict as DCS is not predominantly a multiplayer game and Open Beta will often create issues for certain groups of players, be it hardware or features installed on specific aircraft which either creates bugs or imbalance. I guess there is some history as to why Open Beta is widely adopted for multiplayer but with a clean sheet of paper it seems an illogical choice if the aim is for stability and fairness.

[YoYo]

50 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

I have installed stable along side with beta. What do you guys say now? Please stay on topic and move the OB vs stable discussion to a separate thread.

Now I even have a direct comparison between OB and stable. And I am really sad when I see a bandit aircraft like a slide show passing me in a dogfight in latest OB.

Again : Stay on topic and provide testing data. That performance drop stands in no relation to what we gained in visual appearance of DCS in the latest OB release.

 

Can you share your comparisions with stable?

Steam FPS VR ( https://store.steampowered.com/app/908520/fpsVR/ ) is a good tool for this.

Edited November 27, 2022 by YoYo