investigating Large performance drop in VR after updating to 2.8

[Cab]

"upcoming improvements to the core"

I hope that's as promising as it sounds.

[Gripen 4-1]

6 hours ago, Cab said:

"upcoming improvements to the core"

I hope that's as promising as it sounds.

I hear this since 4 years, 3 graphic cards and 3 CPU's............

Guess what it never got its promised performance patch.

I do not believe in this promises anymore, I only believe when and what I see it in the Sim - and at the moment I see an up to 4ms CPU frametime increase, which means a big performance loss

Edited December 23, 2022 by Gripen 4-1

[Cab]

3 hours ago, Gripen 4-1 said:

I hear this since 4 years, 3 graphic cards and 3 CPU's............

Guess what it never got its promised performance patch.

I do not believe in this promises anymore, I only believe when and what I see it in the Sim - and at the moment I see an up to 4ms CPU frametime increase, which means a big performance loss

 

Believing it when you see it is not an unwise strategy. 
 

But for me, “hope” is still alive. 

[some1]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:47 PM, martinistripes said:

I've got no problem with people doing testing and providing helpful feedback. I'm not saying switch to stable, I'm not on stable either. Just don't be on beta and be disgruntled and point fingers when everything's not perfect. It's disrespectful and ungrateful when people say, "thanks I can't play anymore" or "ED screwed things up". That's not helpful to anyone and won't make the developers feel good about all the hours they've put in to crafting this fine simulation.

Aaand despite all the feedback posted in this thread for two months, the issue has been pushed to stable today. Are we allowed to be disgruntled now?

They didn't even fix the flat shadows, just left the option broken as it is. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by some1

[Gripen 4-1]

Yep, as a VR User I am pi**** off now!

Where is the promised "performance increase"? Where is multithreading?

FPS and frametimes are decreasing and decrasing..........with top tier hardware.

Really slowly loosing my motivation for DCS

[Baldrick33]

9 minutes ago, some1 said:

Aaand despite all the feedback posted in this thread for two months, the issue has been pushed to stable today. Are we allowed to be disgruntled now?

I can't get my head around the rationale for promoting the current open beta to stable. Other than getting flack from people upgrading to the BS3 and not being able to run it on stable.

2.8 is a big update with time needed to fix issues and optimise. I was more than very surprised at the announcement it was being pushed to stable already,

[speed-of-heat]

i have to say, i was surprised and disappointed by this move to push 2.8 to live given the performance issues caused by shadows, and them not being resolved... it feels like clouds all over again... 

43 minutes ago, some1 said:

Aaand despite all the feedback posted in this thread for two months, the issue has been pushed to stable today. Are we allowed to be disgruntled now?

They didn't even fix the flat shadows, just left the option broken as it is. 

 

yes a little bit "miffed" might be in order.

[Tinkickef]

Indeed.  I can in some way understand, but not necessarily agree with EDs standpoint on OB.  But to push an already known to be broken update onto stable version is at best idiotic and can be construed as deliberately rendering a game unuseable for many customers.

I already reverted to stable after they broke VR for me in OB.

These customers, myself included may have spent many hundreds of pounds on this game and for ED to say "tough luck if we break your investment" we are updating anyway is a pretty poor attitude to their customers.

One wonders what the UK Trading Standards would have to say.

I for one have hit the later button and will continue to do so until the performance issue is fixed.  If it means I can no longer buy new modules, so be it.  I was so looking forward to Normandy 2.

Other flight sims are becoming increasingly more attractive.

 

 

i am so annoyed. I smashed all of the lamps at the top of the page in a fit of rage.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Tinkickef

[WipeUout]

Man, I was having a good time flying in 2.7.18 with lots of FPS and details and then boom, back to the problem!

Anyone knows how to revert to 2.7.18 with a Steam install? 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Tinkickef said:

But to push an already known to be broken update onto stable version is at best idiotic and can be construed as deliberately rendering a game unuseable for many customers.

The game isn’t broken, you’re just seeing the performance hit from the updated shadows. Welcome to PC gaming. 

[Tinkickef]

1 minute ago, WipeUout said:

Man, I was having a good time flying in 2.7.18 with lots of FPS and details and then boom, back to the problem!

Anyone knows how to revert to 2.7.18 with a Steam install? 

I do not have a steam install, but what I do will work for you if you mainly use your PC for DCS.  When DCS is running great, I create a system image and back it up on an external drive.  Then if Microsoft, Nvidia or ED breaks something with a dodgy update , I just recover the entire setup from my back up.

Only downside is you have to maintain the backup every time you get a new module.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Tinkickef said:

One wonders what the UK Trading Standards would have to say.

I’m sure somewhere in that EULA you agreed to is a clause which gives ED the right to update the software and puts it on you to keep your hardware compatible. I couldn’t run DCS today on the machine I owned when I originally purchased it 10 years ago. Keeping current on hardware is my responsibility, not EDs

[NineLine]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:23 AM, Gripen 4-1 said:

I hear this since 4 years, 3 graphic cards and 3 CPU's............

Guess what it never got its promised performance patch.

I do not believe in this promises anymore, I only believe when and what I see it in the Sim - and at the moment I see an up to 4ms CPU frametime increase, which means a big performance loss

 

By all means then, wait for the improvements to show up but this is a bug thread meant for collecting info on issues being had by people, please supply all information you can se we can submit to the team, this thread has kind of gone off the rails at this point, might be better to close and start fresh and try again.

[Gripen 4-1]

 

52 minutes ago, NineLine said:

By all means then, wait for the improvements to show up but this is a bug thread meant for collecting info on issues being had by people, please supply all information you can se we can submit to the team, this thread has kind of gone off the rails at this point, might be better to close and start fresh and try again.

Maybe, but can't you understand the VR users, who throw a lot of money in for enthusiast Hardware, and loose performance with every major update. 

Many others and I have a massive performance loss since 2.8 on the CPU side. 

Is it a bug? Maybe, maybe not..... 

For me it feels like a bug, if I have a massive performance loss after an update. 

I don't want to insult you or the team, but please also try to understand the VR community. For us it is sometimes very disappointing, if the game was smooth before the update and is not smooth anymore afterwards. 

And despite it 2.8.1 is pushed to stable too fast. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Gripen 4-1

[Lange_666]

4 hours ago, Tinkickef said:

i am so annoyed. I smashed all of the lamps at the top of the page in a fit of rage.

You could have saved yourself the effort. This is one you can't win.

[martinistripes]

6 hours ago, some1 said:

Aaand despite all the feedback posted in this thread for two months, the issue has been pushed to stable today. Are we allowed to be disgruntled now?

Yeah fair enough... please, be disgruntled.

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, Gripen 4-1 said:

 

Maybe, but can't you understand the VR users, who throw a lot of money in for enthusiast Hardware, and loose performance with every major update. 

Many others and I have a massive performance loss since 2.8 on the CPU side. 

Is it a bug? Maybe, maybe not..... 

For me it feels like a bug, if I have a massive performance loss after an update. 

I don't want to insult you or the team, but please also try to understand the VR community. For us it is sometimes very disappointing, if the game was smooth before the update and is not smooth anymore afterwards. 

And despite it 2.8.1 is pushed to stable too fast. 

 

But you cannot say this about all VR users, this is the issue. Its not as simple as saying all users in VR are having an issue. We saw the same thing with internal testing, a small number of testers saw a negative impact on FPS, but most were ok. 

I see the same all around. Some have issues, some stayed the same and some improved. So that doesn't make it an easy thing to fix or determine if it needs fixing. Add in that the demand that DCS requires will continue to grow. 

All this time development on MT and other items that will help are getting very close. VR is always going to be trickier, it adds so many new and different variables to the equation. So again, without decent data and feedback there ends up being not much we can do. 

So here is what we can do. I am gonna close this and people can start a fresh bug report if they like. The report needs to be detailed and follow the guidelines you can find in my signature to make an appropriate bug report. We will do a better job to keep the debate and discussion out of it and we can go from there. I can tell you know that with my RTX 2080 TI, 11900K, 32GB RAM and G2 (using OpenXR) while not getting huge FPS numbers I get similar to what I always have and smooth enough for a good experience, and so far internally I am seeing improvements on that.

SO lets try again with proper a proper bug report, with proper data and no noise.

Thanks!