DCS now supports OpenXR natively

[YoYo]

25 minutes ago, AMVI_Boomer said:

With open composite, I've no probl and I can use motion reprojection "always on" as before

Yes, the issue has codes of ED version for DCS.

[Specter]

23 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

motion reprojection crash is fixed. 

 

Not for me it isn't.

This is a shame as without it I find the image dragging, shuddering that occurs when I move my head a real deal breaker. 

Please fix soon.

PS, OpenXR worked fine before you tried to use it natively.

[Speed989]

i have a Pimax 8KX and i can start dcs so far, but it looks ugly because my OpneXR Toolkit isnt working. So i cant open the window ingame and change the CAS or FSR etc.. When i go ingame with the opencomposite the game starts normal an i can open the Openxr Toolkit but i cant play because when i fly i have 12 fps!

How do i know that i am useing Open xr? Steamvr is starting with the game every time, is this normal? When i used opencomposite it didnt start. 

How can i get this Openxr Toolkit to work like it was before?    

[Jive]

It all works fine as before, including MR, if you revert to the previous methods for using OpenComposite. 
ie. not having a command line in the shortcut and then replacing the openvr_api.dll with the OpenComposite one https://gitlab.com/znixian/OpenOVR

[lefuneste01]

I did some measurement with instant action DCS A10CII, takeoff mission, first 20 seconds recorded with Fraps, Reverb G2 60Hz, no reproj.

No option triggered with OpenXR toolkit (except menu duration)

• DCS : no mod, OpenXR                                      => Avg: 59.850 - Min: 58 - Max: 61
• DCS : DCS 3dmigoto hunting=2, OpenXR       => Avg: 59.750 - Min: 56 - Max: 61
• DCS : 3dmigoto hunting=2, OpenComposite  => Avg: 57.000 - Min: 53 - Max: 61
• DCS : 3dmigoto hunting=2, SteamVR              => Avg: 55.800 - Min: 51 - Max: 61

As my mod take ~5fps, keeping same fps with openXR would mean there is some fps margin. So I put my Helmet at 90 Hz and then

• DCS : no mod, OpenXR, 90 Hz => Avg: 45.050 - Min: 44 - Max: 46

Even if reprojection is not set in openXR tool for WMR, fps are capped at 45 but, as there is no reprojection, there are a lot of stuttering !

That' strange, because 60Hz is not forced at 30 if the target fps is not achieved, but it seems to be the case for 90 Hz....

But it looks like there is some potential, as soon as reprojection issue will be fixed.

Edited January 28, 2023 by lefuneste01

[halufpv]

Want to report back on my experience as I don't see anyone else testing with Oculus.

Background

My hardware:

• Quest 2
• 3080ti 10GB
• i5 12400F
• 32GB DDR4 3600Mhz
• T16000M FCS pack

I've spent an enormous amount of time tweaking settings in the past, you can see screenshots and my vrperfkit config attached. With these settings and hardware I get stable 45fps (which translates to 90hz with ASW, no ASW isn't so bad at higher framerates and makes me less dizzy) whether I'm flying, on the ground, single player or busy multiplayer server. I mostly fly the F16 on Syria/Caucasus. All the displays and text on the F16 cockpit is perfectly readable without needing to zoom or get close. As a side note, I believe this setup to be the best bang for buck VR, total cost is ~1700$ including pc, hotas and VR headset. People will try and tell you VR DCS is a pipe dream without an i9, a Pimax and a 3090Ti, this is simply not true. (pls ED, I still want DLSS asap)

OpenXR

Now, I've spent all day testing OpenXR. I don't know if I'm missing something but it performs much worse. Vrperfkit doesn't work when using OpenXR so I installed OpenXR toolkit and tried to replicate the same settings. I can't 100% replicate my previous settings because OpenXR toolkit only supports CAS sharpening without scaling, but I tried 90% scaling both with FSR and NIS and it was unplayable. Just taxing the F16 out of the hangar in Krasnador was dipping my FPS to low 20s, even with much more aggressive foveated rendering than I'm used to. At this point I was wondering if the CAS scaler as the real culprit, so I instead disabled both vrperfkit and openXR toolkit, and instead used the Oculus rendering scale slider to decrease to similar number of pixels as a 90% scaler. OpenXR was still way worse. After all these tests I was even wondering if my original setup was as good as I thought it was, reverted everything and voila, smooth as butter again. In conclusion, the native Oculus runtime on Oculus headsets is the way to go.

vrperfkit.yml

Edited January 28, 2023 by halufpv

[Speed989]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Speed989:

i have a Pimax 8KX and i can start dcs so far, but it looks ugly because my OpneXR Toolkit isnt working. So i cant open the window ingame and change the CAS or FSR etc.. When i go ingame with the opencomposite the game starts normal an i can open the Openxr Toolkit but i cant play because when i fly i have 12 fps!

How do i know that i am useing Open xr? Steamvr is starting with the game every time, is this normal? When i used opencomposite it didnt start. 

How can i get this Openxr Toolkit to work like it was before?    

Do anybody have the same problem and mabye a solution to get the Openxr Toolkit working?

I dont use the commandline because Steam DCS wont start then.

I deleted the the openvr_api.dll an made a repair on steam.

I have no Problems to start DCS but the Toolkit wont open ingame no matter what I do. 

Please help

[Nuggetz]

I had problems until last night. However using the new command line with a new DCS desktop shortcut and uninstalling Pitool and then downloading the latest Pitool fixed all my problems with the exception of crashes in MP this morning. 
 

However, importing DCS into the Games tab in Pitool using the new DCS Shortcut (with command line) and launching DCS within the Pitool appears to have fixed the crashes and I can access OpenXR TK just fine. I will have to check how the FPS compares when I next enter DCS for both MP and SP modes. HTH

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, Specter said:

Not for me it isn't.

This is a shame as without it I find the image dragging, shuddering that occurs when I move my head a real deal breaker. 

Please fix soon.

PS, OpenXR worked fine before you tried to use it natively.

I have made the team aware some people are still having issues with motion reprojection forced on. 
For me and other testers it is working. 

Some also noted that forcing it on in more than one app created problems. 

[zildac]

For those with a Varjo AERO who wish to use DCS native OXR please see here:

 

[Specter]

33 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Some also noted that forcing it on in more than one app created problems. 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.

[FupDuck]

1 hour ago, halufpv said:

Want to report back on my experience as I don't see anyone else testing with Oculus.

Background

My hardware:

• Quest 2
• 3080ti 10GB
• i5 12400F
• 32GB DDR4 3600Mhz
• T16000M FCS pack

I've spent an enormous amount of time tweaking settings in the past, you can see screenshots and my vrperfkit config attached. With these settings and hardware I get stable 45fps (which translates to 90hz with ASW, no ASW isn't so bad at higher framerates and makes me less dizzy) whether I'm flying, on the ground, single player or busy multiplayer server. I mostly fly the F16 on Syria/Caucasus. All the displays and text on the F16 cockpit is perfectly readable without needing to zoom or get close. As a side note, I believe this setup to be the best bang for buck VR, total cost is ~1700$ including pc, hotas and VR headset. People will try and tell you VR DCS is a pipe dream without an i9, a Pimax and a 3090Ti, this is simply not true. (pls ED, I still want DLSS asap)

OpenXR

Now, I've spent all day testing OpenXR. I don't know if I'm missing something but it performs much worse. Vrperfkit doesn't work when using OpenXR so I installed OpenXR toolkit and tried to replicate the same settings. I can't 100% replicate my previous settings because OpenXR toolkit only supports CAS sharpening without scaling, but I tried 90% scaling both with FSR and NIS and it was unplayable. Just taxing the F16 out of the hangar in Krasnador was dipping my FPS to low 20s, even with much more aggressive foveated rendering than I'm used to. At this point I was wondering if the CAS scaler as the real culprit, so I instead disabled both vrperfkit and openXR toolkit, and instead used the Oculus rendering scale slider to decrease to similar number of pixels as a 90% scaler. OpenXR was still way worse. After all these tests I was even wondering if my original setup was as good as I thought it was, reverted everything and voila, smooth as butter again. In conclusion, the native Oculus runtime on Oculus headsets is the way to go.

vrperfkit.yml 5.67 kB · 1 download

 

Thanks for doing this! Can you please post a screenshot of your VR tab in the DCS settings? I have a similar setup, but use the in game PD, etc.

Thanks! 

[Gusti]

1 hour ago, Jive said:

It all works fine as before, including MR, if you revert to the previous methods for using OpenComposite. 
ie. not having a command line in the shortcut and then replacing the openvr_api.dll with the OpenComposite one https://gitlab.com/znixian/OpenOVR

excellent find, all back to previous VR performance with MR for me, thanks!!

[dmatt76]

The fix with forcing openxr in command line doesnt work. DCS freezes in the menu, earlier it was on loading

but the old method - puitting the old DLL file  in BIN folder works like a charm

Reverb G2, latest Win11, latest RTX nvidia drivers 

[Magic_Jim]

Pimax 8Kx using PimaxXR here.

Using DCS OpenXR by forcing it on with the command line = game crash within 5 minutes in multiplay.

Guess I'll start using OpenComposite again. Hope it works now. Either that or just play MSFS for a while. 

I appreciate what ED is trying to do by implementing OpenXR, but slipping it in unannounced and apparently untested, and breaking VR for many users was a very poor decision. Maybe it's just easier, cheaper, or quicker to put it in, let the player base "test" it, and see where it's at after the dust settles. I don't believe for a second that a huge change like this "slipped under my radar" or whatever was said. 

 

 

 

[jurinko]

1 hour ago, Specter said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.

Probably of you check more simulators in the toolkit bottom.

[diamond26]

these are my results on three different options (DCS OpenXR, Opencomposite OpenXR, Vrperfkit). No Upscaling, Turbo mode on in OXRTK. Test with F18 low level free flight over Persian Gulf. i7 12700K/ 3080 12Gb/32gb RAM 3600 

End result: DCS OpenXR works better

PS. Now I wish Skatezilla's App was able to launch directly the DCS OpenXR option so I can use different settings for different use cases.

Edited January 28, 2023 by diamond26

[Baldrick33]

44 minutes ago, Magic_Jim said:

I appreciate what ED is trying to do by implementing OpenXR, but slipping it in unannounced and apparently untested, and breaking VR for many users was a very poor decision. Maybe it's just easier, cheaper, or quicker to put it in, let the player base "test" it, and see where it's at after the dust settles. I don't believe for a second that a huge change like this "slipped under my radar" or whatever was said.

I agree with the lack of communication being a mistake but I think that has been accepted as such and the point has been made.

As for the player base testing it, well that is the purpose of Open Beta. There far too many variables of hardware and third party software for a small team to test everything especially for an immature and relatively complex aspect like VR.

The real problem is the numbers who use Open Beta as the de facto release version and update it automatically to find things no longer work. I am not really sure how we got here but I don’t think many really sign up to the stated purpose of Open Beta shown below when they download it:

 the Open Beta version is for us to "field-test" new changes and check for any DCS-wide "Blocking" crashes, and the Release version is the result of the previous Open Beta that does not suffer any "Blocks." As with Early Access, Open Beta is an option and may not be for everyone.

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have made the team aware some people are still having issues with motion reprojection forced on. 
For me and other testers it is working. 

Some also noted that forcing it on in more than one app created problems. 

With all due respect, but I didnt noticed any post of user of WMR and OpenXR as native VR system (only one, without SteamVR) with working Motion Reprojection = Always On in OpenXR Tools, so hard to talk „some people” only. Not. As I see that all people with WMR and G2 and MR=on have this issue also from different Forum about DCS if we talk about DCS and own settings of OpenXR (new kind of support by DCS, without external mods like diferrent dll from Open Composite for example) or running OpenXR through SteamVR which is generally pointless in this situation.

 

Im not sure how it was tested, but patch and hotfix showed that if for testers only it worked, you have to do something wrong I suppose. It will soon turn out that only users have a problem and the topic will disappear under the carpet ;). Looks more like the team hasnt idea how to solve it and only few people have an issue. It isnt true, sorry. I hope, we will see soon Hotfix2 as well, because this post didn't sound promising for me.

To be sure, Im fan of OpenXR in DCS and I think its a good decision, but pls, fix it.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by YoYo

[Nuggetz]

There have been a lot of posts across a few threads so I will try and be brief.

I have a new DCS shortcut on my desktop with the added command line.  If I launch the Pitool and then DCS via the DCS desktop shortcut everything in fine in SP mode with great performance 68-75 FPS at 75hz. OPENXRTK works no issues. Normal FOV and 3840 resolution Pimax 8KX. 

If I use the same method in MP mode DCS crashes before I can select an aircraft from the server list.  Sometimes I have got into flight but if I press F10 DCS crashes and hangs. 

However, if I import this shortcut into the MyGames tab in the Pitool and launch from there I can get into DCS and fly SP or MP no crashes albeit with reduced performance.  In SP I estimate I am down 10-12 FPS over the pure OpenXR route as SteamVR launches but does indicate that OpenXR runtime is active. I note that the SteamVR graphics appear in the 8KX at times. OpenXRTK is not available.

Even if DCS is working correctly perhaps there is an issue with the Pitool.  I don't know enough to work it out.  I attach a DCS log in the hope someone can help.

The bottom line is I can currently enter VR and fly albeit with some performance hit in MP.  It would be great to benefit from the full OpenXR performance in both SP and MP.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

dcs.log

Edited January 28, 2023 by Nuggetz

[Baldrick33]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have made the team aware some people are still having issues with motion reprojection forced on. 
For me and other testers it is working. 

Some also noted that forcing it on in more than one app created problems. 

I have repeatedly tested it with the OpenXR Toolkit disabled. It consistently crashes (hangs) when loading a mission in the terrain loading part. I note that others have it hang in the menu screen. I have removed any third party hooks like openkneeboard and jetseat and it still crashes.

I changed the headset to 60Hz and it hung on the menu screen for the first time.

Turning off motion reprojection and it runs fine. Reverting to the opencomposite method of enabling OpenXR also works fine with motion reprojection on.

 

[YoYo]

2 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I have repeatedly tested it with the OpenXR Toolkit disabled. It consistently crashes (hangs) when loading a mission in the terrain loading part. I note that others have it hang in the menu screen. I have removed any third party hooks like openkneeboard and jetseat and it still crashes.

I changed the headset to 60Hz and it hung on the menu screen for the first time.

Turning off motion reprojection and it runs fine. Reverting to the opencomposite method of enabling OpenXR also works fine with motion reprojection on.

 

Exactly, that's what I wrote in post above. Natively, DCS still does not support OpenXR as it should without add-ons that overwrite what DCS OB has in it in this regard, so the issue is present still, for all people.

[Magic_Jim]

To Pimax users -

I now have a working Pimax 8Kx  headset in OpenBeta again.

I reinstalled OpenComposite (because I had deleted it completely while trying to troubleshoot what the patch broke)

I have updated PimaxXR to v0.3.0

I am now launching DCS from within the Pitool, under the My Games tab. There are no command line switches.

 I was just in on a multiplay server for about an hour and had no problems. Basically, I'm right back to what I had before these patches. 

Edit - forgot to mention, I completely got rid of the OpenXR toolkit. Don't know if that made any difference. Had it installed before the patches, but removed it as part of my troubleshooting efforts, and have not reinstalled it. 

To the guy who pointed out that we are "open beta testers"....that's true, and always has been, if you run openbeta. Unfortunately, due to the structure of DCS, pretty much everybody runs openbeta and that actually makes us the main customer base.  So you can declare that we have no room to complain, or face the reality that we are the main customers of DCS and just spent a lot of hours and frustration trying to recover from something that we didn't even see coming. Personally, I don't like what just happened over the last three days.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Magic_Jim
wanted to say something else.

[Baldrick33]

2 minutes ago, Magic_Jim said:

To the guy who pointed out that we are "open beta testers"....that's true, and always has been, if you run openbeta. Unfortunately, due to the structure of DCS, pretty much everybody runs openbeta and that actually makes us the main customer base.  So you can declare that we have no room to complain, or face the reality that we are the main customers of DCS and just spent a lot of hours and frustration trying to recover from something that we didn't even see coming. Personally, I don't like what just happened over the last three days.

I certainly wouldn't (and didn't) declare we have no room to complain. 

The issue is that OpenBeta is the de facto release. My FB feeds have a few DCS VR groups and they were quickly awash with people who had no understanding of why DCS had stopped working. They just clicked on DCS, it updated and bang it didn't work.

As I said, I don't know how we got here. ED announce themselves that Open Beta is best for multiplayer on their download page for new players, so the players are hardly to blame. I guess at some time there was a tipping point when multiplayer servers needed Open Beta for essential fixes and it kind of spirals from there. Critical mass is everything in multiplayer. Single player wise I would suggest most of us want the new stuff and latest updates. So OpenBeta has long been the "normal" version for most players (both multi and single player)

The problem is that it renders the very purpose of a Beta and Release version somewhat moot. Something like an initial version of OpenXR is ripe for Open Beta testing. There are a myriad of headsets, APIs, third party tools plus VR can be a very subjective experience where one person's perfect settings can feel horrible to the point of physical sickness to another. It needs a wide test group.

Now of course had the original patch not defaulted the change to everyone a lot of anguish would have been avoided. We are right to complain about that, I have complained about that and ED have appeared to take that on board not to repeat it. That is the purpose of post mortems of IT issues - to ensure it doesn't happen again. I feel the message has got across, time will tell.

That doesn't completely take away the risk that stuff won't get broken again in Open Beta. If the Open Beta was used by people who are prepared to help develop the product by providing a degree of field testing then it would be fine but it isn't. Far from it and that in my view is where some of the problems lie. Personally I would advocate a third branch, call it Open Alpha, whatever it doesn't matter. Get stuff tested in the wider field where we have so many more variables of hardware and software configurations - before it gets to Open Beta where the majority of normal customers exist. The multiplayer "version" of DCS should in my mind be reliable and balanced and having a constant feed of new stuff doesn't fit with that.

Just my two cents!

[T-Pickle]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb WarthogOsl:

I run using vanilla Oculus VR mode from Steam.  The original patch killed by performance, and I'm not seeing any changes with the hotfix.  Is there a command line to absolutely ensure that OpenXR is NOT used?  I'd just like to get back to where things were before Wednesday.

The same happend to me. Was using Oculus VR standalone before. After the patch it swapped to OpenXR (weirdly with the SteamVR home screen), then after the hotfix it seemed to be back to Oculus VR, but performance is still worse like it was when it switched to OpenXR. When I enable Asynchronous Spacewarp (Oculus Motion Reprojection) now in Oculus VR mode it behaves exactly like it did with OpenXR, as in it does not work and rather decreases performance even more with more stutters.