CAT I/III

[jack333]

Hi, can you tell me if the configuration of CAT I or CAT III stores is modeled in the simulator depending on the aircraft's weapons load. I change it and it seems that there is no change regarding the behavior of the plane. In another simulator whose name I don't want to talk about, when I change said configuration it warns me with a warning if it is not configured correctly. Greetings

[Lace]

It does limit the G, and roll rate (or at least it used to).  The warning isn't implemented yet.

[Noctrach]

2 hours ago, Lace said:

It does limit the G, and roll rate (or at least it used to). 

The CAT I/III switch in the F-16 does not limit G. It limits roll rate, rudder authority and max AoA. The FLCS will still do 9G in CAT III. It's purpose isn't to protect stores integrity, but to prevent the aircraft from entering flight regimes in which it is prone to departures.

To OP: This behaviour is definitely modeled, the warning is not.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Noctrach

[Lace]

1 hour ago, Noctrach said:

The CAT I/III switch in the F-16 does not limit G. It limits roll rate, rudder authority and max AoA. The FLCS will still do 9G in CAT III. It's purpose isn't to protect stores integrity, but to prevent the aircraft from entering flight regimes in which it is prone to departures.

To OP: This behaviour is definitely modeled, the warning is not.

 

I should have been clearer, I believe it limits G onset, rather than maximum G.  Happy to be corrected though.

[Braunn]

It feels like it limits G onset because of the effect you get when less control surface response/authority is selected in CAT III mode. It's basically just a driving miss daisy mode to help the airframe survive stupid sudden F-16 pilot moves with heavy weapon loadouts. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Braunn

[dorianR666]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:06 PM, Noctrach said:

modeled, the warning is not.

i cant believe this painfully obvious but simple to implement thing is still not implemented 4 years later

[Marco Schaap]

On 7/4/2023 at 4:11 PM, dorianR666 said:

i cant believe this painfully obvious but simple to implement thing is still not implemented 4 years later

Priorities my man...

[SickSidewinder9]

It doesn't seem like we get punished at all for being in the wrong cat.  Nor is there any over G stress damage.  Is there not supposed to be?  Do you have to have random failures on?

Edited July 13, 2023 by SickSidewinder9

[firimar]

4 years since release, g stress not modelled at all )

[razo+r]

24 minutes ago, firimar said:

4 years since release, g stress not modelled at all )

It is partially. Pull too many Gs and you will rip your wings. 

[Dragon1-1]

You can't over-G the stores, though. IRL, TGP can be damaged by laying on too many Gs, and negative Gs, in particular, can break pretty much any air to ground weapon. Pylons are designed to have stuff hanging from them, if a bomb is lying on them (if pushing -2G, one twice as heavy as the rack was made for), things will bend and possibly fail to work correctly.

[dorianR666]

yeah, in The Other Sim, youll for example get SMS STA4 FAIL message in the PFL display and you wont be able to release the weapon. PFL doesnt seem to be implemented (yet?) in DCS. you can also ruin your JSOWs by overspeeding them.

would be great to have this in DCS.

[Nealius]

I've noticed that even in CATIII it is still extremely easy to end up pulling 9.3G even with gentle movements of the stick. Compared to "the other sim" where it's easier to stay in the 5G range by feel. I suspect this has less to do with CAT!/III modeling and more to do with the force-sensing-stick curve that's baked into the DCS Viper. I wish we could turn that off.

[Wiggo]

Thanks for this! Cleared things. Can I change CAT during flight just by clicking the switch? (like if jettisoned / used all payload and want to use cat I..? ) Or am I even SUPPOSED to do that...? Did not find any "dont do this" from manual either. I think.. Maby.. So..?

[razo+r]

7 minutes ago, Wiggo said:

Thanks for this! Cleared things. Can I change CAT during flight just by clicking the switch? (like if jettisoned / used all payload and want to use cat I..? ) Or am I even SUPPOSED to do that...? Did not find any "dont do this" from manual either. I think.. Maby.. So..?

If you are not restricted by your loadout anymore, you can switch to CAT I anytime. 

[Wiggo]

6 minutes ago, razo+r said:

If you are not restricted by your loadout anymore, you can switch to CAT I anytime. 

Thank you!

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, Wiggo said:

Thanks for this! Cleared things. Can I change CAT during flight just by clicking the switch? (like if jettisoned / used all payload and want to use cat I..? ) Or am I even SUPPOSED to do that...? Did not find any "dont do this" from manual either. I think.. Maby.. So..?

Yes, same way you can change from “charges” to A/A in the Mirage 2000.

[Spirale]

15 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Yes, same way you can change from “charges” to A/A in the Mirage 2000.

But, in case of CAT IIII load, you will hear an alarm tone until you switch from CAT i to CAT III.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

That’s because it’s only modelled partially in the F-16.

[Falconeer]

The F16 doesn't give you a warning tone, only a caution light 

[Spirale]

21 hours ago, Falconeer said:

The F16 doesn't give you a warning tone, only a caution light 

I was speaking about the Mirage 2000 , Raven was speaking about the Mirage 2000^^

Edited August 17, 2023 by Spirale

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

3 hours ago, Spirale said:

I was speaking about the Mirage 2000 , Raven was speaking about the Mirage 2000^^

 

Well, those 2 systems probably have the same intent, and work similarly.

In the F-16 you just get a “CONFIG”-advisory on the warning panel, as far as I understand.

[Falconeer]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:03 AM, Spirale said:

I was speaking about the Mirage 2000 , Raven was speaking about the Mirage 2000^^

 

It was more intended for people who think that the F16 works in a similar matter, because Raven answered you that the system is partially implemented, this can lead people to think the F16 should give a tone aswell

I know how the Mirage works, it was my first module years ago

[Wiggo]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:39 AM, Spirale said:

But, in case of CAT IIII load, you will hear an alarm tone until you switch from CAT i to CAT III.

Oh. I havent heard or seen anything, but it could have been just me during the battle not looking at the lights..  Though have not tried to switch it with CAT III load to CAT I, only after jettisoned / used my wing A/G payload (or/and  two tanks). Anyways, clearly it can be switched during flight, (without blewing stuff up etc.) 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Wiggo

[deep]

Good question: does anyone know if it's standard procedure to switch to CAT I after an emergency jettison? I don't see it documented anywhere.