reported SA-15's ability to engage certain bombs ( GBU-38, APKWS, Durandal and GBU-54 Reported )

[SlipHavoc]

There's always a balance between fidelity on the one hand, and programmer time and effort on the other.

[Hawkeye_UK]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:53 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all

I have checked with the team and it is correct. SA-15 is able to intercept tactical missiles and large bombs.

thank you

Has April fool's come late this year?  Lets not have the repeat of the "team" stating such nonsense re JDAMS, its a similar discussion we had about the SA19 missile killing tanks front on.....(to be told its "accurate" then eventually corrected).

We are talking about the M1 Scrum Half system here and non ER guidance kits.  Also note specification and actual performance are two very different things, but an M1 system shooting down early JDAMS with the GPS kits is comical (without even considering the attack profile).

Consider this, the system has been upgraded since the version in the game, in all aspects esp track to launch time, target saturation and telemetry.  How many video's have you seen of non ER JDAM's being knocked out the sky in today's open source information (and rest assured it would be everywhere given the last 20 months).

 

[Mr. Wilson]

9 часов назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

From the team 

Any weapon without the reflection value will default to 0.05 which in most cases is correct. 

However 

APKWS, Durandal and GBU-54 need to be adjusted and have been reported. 

thanks

Also please adjust the value for conventional unguided rockets, they are also intercepted, while their sizes are much smaller than those of the GBU 12 and GBU 38 Bombs...

[Hawkeye_UK]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Wilson said:

Also please adjust the value for conventional unguided rockets, they are also intercepted, while their sizes are much smaller than those of the GBU 12 and GBU 38 Bombs...

APKWS - best TALD's there is 

[SlipHavoc]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Wilson said:

Also please adjust the value for conventional unguided rockets, they are also intercepted, while their sizes are much smaller than those of the GBU 12 and GBU 38 Bombs...

How did you get the unguided rockets to be intercepted?  I tried shooting unguided rockets at a SA-15 from both a Harrier and an Apache, and it didn't shoot at them.  How did you set up your test?

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye_UK said:

Has April fool's come late this year?  Lets not have the repeat of the "team" stating such nonsense re JDAMS, its a similar discussion we had about the SA19 missile killing tanks front on.....(to be told its "accurate" then eventually corrected).

We are talking about the M1 Scrum Half system here and non ER guidance kits.  Also note specification and actual performance are two very different things, but an M1 system shooting down early JDAMS with the GPS kits is comical (without even considering the attack profile).

Consider this, the system has been upgraded since the version in the game, in all aspects esp track to launch time, target saturation and telemetry.  How many video's have you seen of non ER JDAM's being knocked out the sky in today's open source information (and rest assured it would be everywhere given the last 20 months).

 

Please keep the feedback mature and constructive, this is a bug report so this should be for bug-related info either tracks, evidence etc, no commentary is needed. Thanks. 

[Mr. Wilson]

@BIGNEWY What will happen to guided missiles? Since there are a lot of fairly small missiles (not rokets) in the game... Could you please post a table of odds for the missiles ?

Edited October 26, 2023 by Mr. Wilson

[SFJackBauer]

On 10/24/2023 at 6:55 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all, 

after speaking with the team the SA-15 will try to engage projectiles with a RCS of 0.04 or higher. 

Thanks for the clarification! This is great and a step in the right direction.

[okopanja]

@NineLine recent update brought RCS oscilations on some of hornet and viper airborne radars. I assume this was done depending on the operating frequency of both radars. Can you please tell us the reference wavelength which was used to to define the corresponding RCS of DCS ammo?

[Killshot0597]

After the hotfix dropped I went to work and tested if there were any changes. And there was, to the GBU-38 at least.
The SA-15 still can see and engage the GBU-38 while completely ignoring the GBU-12, so the issue is still there.

However, the SA-15 can not hit the JDAM at all, so there is some improvement at least. I even tried to do it manually in combined arms, the SA-15 AI can detect, lock and shoot the GBU-38 but it can't seem to track it as the missiles just go straight after the initial turn from leaving the tube. I will provide tracks for GBU-12 and GBU-38 as I did originally. As well as my attempt in combined arms.

GBU-12 Test post hotfix.trk GBU-38 Test post hotfix.trk GBU-38 Test post hotfix combined arms.trk

1 minute ago, okopanja said:

@NineLine recent update brought RCS oscilations on some of hornet and viper airborne radars. I assume this was done depending on the operating frequency of both radars. Can you please tell us the reference wavelength which was used to to define the corresponding RCS of DCS ammo?

I'm not sure how this relates to the topic?

[BIGNEWY]

3 minutes ago, Killshot0597 said:

After the hotfix dropped I went to work and tested if there were any changes. And there was, to the GBU-38 at least.
The SA-15 still can see and engage the GBU-38 while completely ignoring the GBU-12, so the issue is still there.

However, the SA-15 can not hit the JDAM at all, so there is some improvement at least. I even tried to do it manually in combined arms, the SA-15 AI can detect, lock and shoot the GBU-38 but it can't seem to track it as the missiles just go straight after the initial turn from leaving the tube. I will provide tracks for GBU-12 and GBU-38 as I did originally. As well as my attempt in combined arms.

GBU-12 Test post hotfix.trk 51.92 kB · 0 downloads GBU-38 Test post hotfix.trk 48.11 kB · 0 downloads GBU-38 Test post hotfix combined arms.trk 228.53 kB · 0 downloads

I'm not sure how this relates to the topic?

Please wait the full fix is not in yet, I am still testing. 

Thanks

5 minutes ago, okopanja said:

@NineLine recent update brought RCS oscilations on some of hornet and viper airborne radars. I assume this was done depending on the operating frequency of both radars. Can you please tell us the reference wavelength which was used to to define the corresponding RCS of DCS ammo?

please make a new thread so you dont derail this one. 

Thank you

[Mr. Wilson]

В 26.10.2023 в 03:03, Mr. Wilson сказал:

@BIGNEWY What will happen to guided missiles? Since there are a lot of fairly small missiles (not rokets) in the game... Could you please post a table of odds for the missiles ?

 

@BIGNEWY Please give an answer to this question. Thank you for your attention.

[gasmate]

It seems the TOR can't engage bombs coming from close to 90 degrees above it, I'm able to hit it 100% of the time with a GBU-31. May explain the difference between JDAMS and LGB's??

[Steinsch]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:10 AM, Killshot0597 said:

After the hotfix dropped I went to work and tested if there were any changes. And there was, to the GBU-38 at least.
The SA-15 still can see and engage the GBU-38 while completely ignoring the GBU-12, so the issue is still there.

However, the SA-15 can not hit the JDAM at all, so there is some improvement at least. I even tried to do it manually in combined arms, the SA-15 AI can detect, lock and shoot the GBU-38 but it can't seem to track it as the missiles just go straight after the initial turn from leaving the tube. I will provide tracks for GBU-12 and GBU-38 as I did originally. As well as my attempt in combined arms.

GBU-12 Test post hotfix.trk 51.92 kB · 1 download GBU-38 Test post hotfix.trk 48.11 kB · 1 download GBU-38 Test post hotfix combined arms.trk 228.53 kB · 2 downloads

I'm not sure how this relates to the topic?

My experience is different. I've found the SA-15 can still engage and successfully shoot down GBU-38s, especially if multiple SA-15 systems are in the bombs flight path.

If the SA-15 modelled in DCS is able to do that IRL, I'm happy if things stay that way. Otherwise, it would indeed be nice to tweak the probability of engagement and the probability of kill.

I'm eager to play with the fix when it comes out!

Edited November 7, 2023 by Steinsch

[lee1hy]

and Water floaing same as  IRL

 

[ahb8275]

After 2.9.2 I noticed that the SA15 is able to engage CBU103/105s but struggled with GBU38s. Haven't tested anything else wanted to flag it.

[Ipergallo]

What about the RCS of a JSOW? Normally JSOW have à very low RCS because of the stealth design of the weapon, so what is the RCS of this weapon in DCS? Why a weapon designed especially for SEAD missions with à specific stealth design is always tracked and shoot down?

Thank you in advance for the answer.

[JabbyJabara]

I was just in a mission where a CBU-105 was engaged by the SA-15. So I believe the RCS is in error for the CBU-105 as well. What information source for the Tor M1 series shows its capable of intercepting a CBU-105, has there been any recorded in history to be intercepted?

[Flappie]

APKWS now has a lower RCS. It should not be engaged anymore.

[inZane]

Oct 26, 2023 was the last info that we got about this. A GBU-38 is still able to be shot down by an SA15, but a MK-82 cannot. They are the same bomb. Is there any update on this issue yet?