IJN Mogami CA class Heavy Cruiser

[Silver_Dragon]

On the 2024 and Beyond show a IJN Mogami CA Cruiser, has show "errors"...

1. Forward turret has some aft, force second turret to elevate barrels over there. On the Mogami class, the second turret can maintain your barrels horizontal.
2. the turrets 1 and 2 has incorrect shape. that has not colimators, only turret 3 and 4 has them.

Some pics of Mogami class.

Edited January 5, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[exhausted]

Excellent work

[Northstar98]

Just as an FYI, the overwhelming majority of images show the Mogamis as they were before they were refitted. The main difference is that pre-refit they had triple 15.5 cm/60 turrets (where there definitely is enough clearance between the first and 2nd turret) but the ones shown in the trailer are post-refit (the fit accurate to WWII), with turrets with double 20.3 cm/50 guns. The 20.3 cm guns are longer than the 15.5 cm guns so having them needed to be elevated over in order to clear the #1 turret might be accurate.

If you're looking at an image of a Mogami and you see turrets with 3 guns instead of 2, then you're looking at a different fit to what's seen in the trailer and a fit that is less accurate to WWII.

Unfortunately images showing the refitted configuration clearly seem to be very hard to come-by, I did find one though, so here's a comparison:

Pre-refit (triple 15.5 cm/60 guns):

https://naval-encyclopedia.com/ww2/japan/photos/Kumano_1939_forward_turrets.jpg

Post-refit (double 20.3 cm/50 guns):

https://naval-encyclopedia.com/ww2/japan/photos/Mogami_1943_forward_turrets-bridge-view.jpg

Note how the barrels on the #2 turret appear to be raised above turret #1 and how these turrets aren't fitted with the rangefinder seen on turrets 4 and 5.

 

This is further backed up by these plans (sourced from here), these appear to be actual Japanese plans (albeit annotated) for the vessels:

 

The large extensions for the rangefinders do only appear to be on #3 and #4 turrets however, so you're right on that part.

Edited February 7, 2024 by Northstar98
Fixed broken image links

[Silver_Dragon]

Thanks by the advice, has correct
http://combinedfleet.com/ships/mogami

https://ww2db.com/ship_spec.php?ship_id=C470

Quote

 

The Mogami-class heavy cruisers were designed within the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty. After Japan refused to recognize the treaty, however, they were modernized with heavier armor and greater armaments, which included swapping her original triple 155-milimeter turrets with twin 203-milimeter turrets; these swaps were possible because the Japanese Navy designed the Mogami-class ships specifically with this potential in mind. Although the Mogami-class ships were generally not considered to be a major improvement from the predecessor Takao-class ships, they were nevertheless used heavily during the Pacific War, and experience gained from the Mogami-class design at least partially contributed to the successful subsequent Tone-class design.

 

Surely has a generic Mugami class ship make by ED. The Mogami (the first of class) was fitted as seaplane carrier after Midway.

I think the team has copy the pic of the Takao turrets.

http://combinedfleet.com/203_50_2.htm

Checking data....
Mogami class Pre-Refit (Original Configuration as CL).
Mogami CL
Displacement: 8636 std In class: 4
Size Class: B/Medium In Svc: 1935
Propulsion: Steam Turbine Crew: 850
Signature: Medium/Noisy Armor Rating: 8/6

Weapons: Gunnery Standard: IV
2F/P&S/2A(3)5 3rd Yr Type 15.5cm/60 C
P/S(2)4 Type 89 12.7cm/40 C
P/S(3)4 24 in TT w/6 Type 90 torp (3 reserve torp/mount for quick reload in 6 minutes) F
2 Midships catapults, 1 E7K1 and 2 E4N B
Area AA: (2)4 Type 89 12.7cm/40 (1.6)
Light AA: 8 Type 96 25mm, 4 Type 93 13.2mm (1.2)

Remarks:
Mogami, Mikuma, Suzuya, Kumano. Aluminum superstructure, special damage modifier of -15%. Often carried 3 E4N floatplanes instead of mixed load.
• 1936: Stability improved by reducing superstructure, fitting larger bulges, TT reloads reduced from 12 torpedoes to 6. Displacement increased to 9636 t std. Floatplane complement 1 E7K1 and 2 E8N Dave.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
DP (1935): 0 76 153 229 275 305
DP (1936): 0 82 164 246 295 328
Surf Speed: 37 28 19 9 0 Sinks

Mogami Class (Post Refit 1940), convert on CA
Mogami (1940) CA
Displacement: 13000 std In Class: 4
Size Class: B/Medium In Svc: 1939
Propulsion: Steam turbine Crew: 920 - 970
Signature: Medium/Noisy Armor Rating: 8/6

Weapons: Gunnery Standard: IV
2F/P&S/2A(2)5 3rd Yr Type No. 2 20cm/50 C
P/S(2)4 Type 89 12.7cm/40 C
P/S(3)4 610mm TT w/6 Type 93 torp (3 reserve torp/mount for quick reload in 6 minutes) F
2 Midships Catapults, 1 E13A1 Jake, 2 E8N2 Dave B
Area AA: (2)4 Type 89 12.7cm/40 (1.6)
Light AA: (2)4 Type 96 25mm, (2)2 Type 93 13.2mm (1.2)

Remarks:
Mogami, Mikuma, Suzuya, Kumano. Commissioned 1936, originally armed with 15cm guns. Rebuilt 1937 - 1938 to improve stability and hull strength. Rearmed 1939 - 40 with 8 in guns. 
Mogami:
• 5 Jun 42: Damaged bow in collision with Mikuma, speed reduced to 12 (later 14) knots.
• 7 Jun 42: Damaged by dive bombers during Battle of Midway. Underwent temporary repairs at Truk, left for Sasebo.
• 11 Aug 42 - 30 Apr 43: Battle damage repaired, modified as aircraft cruiser. Two aft turrets removed, aircraft handling facilities expanded. Planned load 11 E16A1 Zuiun [Paul] floatplanes, actual aircraft complement 4 E13A1, 3 E8N2. Type 21 radar fitted. Lt AA (3)10 Type 96 25mm, Lt AA 3.6.
• 5 Nov 43: Heavily damaged at Rabaul by dive bomber. After emergency repairs at Truk proceeded to Kure.
• 22 Dec 43 - 17 Feb 44: Repaired at Kure, (1)8 25mm added, Lt AA 4.6.
• 25 Jun - 8 Jul 44: Refitted at Kure. 2 Type 22, one Type 13 radar, (3)4, (1)10 25mm added, Lt AA 7.2. Air group changed to eight E16A1 Zuiun [Paul] floatplanes.
• Aug 44: Both Type 22 radars modified to add FC-S capability.
• 25 Oct 44: Damaged by gunfire during Battle of Surigao Strait, withdrew, unable to control fires and control damage. Attacked by aircraft, suffered bomb hits, abandoned, then sunk by DD Akebono.
Mikuma:
• 5 Jun 42: Slightly damaged in collision with Mogami.
• 7 Jun 42: Sunk by dive bombers during Battle of Midway.
Suzuya:
• 27 Apr - 2 May 43: Refitted, Type 21 radar added, (2)2 13.2mm replaced by (3)4 25mm, Lt AA 2.4.
• Early 44: Aircraft complement 3 E13A1 Jake.
• Apr 44: Refitted in Singapore, (1)8 25mm added, Lt AA 3.4.
• 25 Jun - 8 Jul 44: Refitted at Kure, 2 Type 22, one Type 13 radar, (3)4, (1)10 25mm added, Lt AA 6.0.
• Aug 44: Both Type 22 radars modified to add FC-S capability.
• 25 Oct 44: Sunk by air attack during Battle of Leyte Gulf.
Kumano:
• 6 - 15 Apr 43: Refitted, Type 21 radar added, (2)2 13.2mm replaced by (3)4 25mm, Lt AA 2.4.
• 20 Jul 43: Damaged off Kolombara by dive bombers. After emergency repairs at Truk, left for Kure.
• 2 Sep - 8 Oct 43: Bomb damage repaired at Kure.
• Early 44: Aircraft complement 3 E13A1 Jake.
• Apr 44: Refitted in Singapore, (1)8 25mm added, Lt AA 3.4.
• 25 Jun - 8 Jul 44: Refitted at Kure. 2 Type 22, one Type 13 radar, (3)4, (1)16 25mm added, Lt AA 6.7.
• Aug 44: Both Type 22 radars modified to add FC-S capability.
• 25 Oct 44: Damaged by a combination of surface torpedo and aerial bombs during Battle of Leyte Gulf. Proceeded to Manila for emergency repairs, lasting until 4 Nov. Max speed 15 kts.
• 6 Nov 44: Enroute to Japan, torpedoed by USS Ray, emergency repairs carried out at Manila until 20 Nov, max speed 6 kts.
• 25 Nov: Attacked by dive bombers and torpedo planes, sunk.

Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 118 236 353 424 471
Surf Speed: 33 25 16 8 0 Sinks

 

Edited January 5, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[Northstar98]

The Mogami was, but the Suyuza, Mikuma and Kumano weren't. Suyuza would later have 5-inch twin mounts replace the rear 20.3 cm/50 turrets to improve anti-aircraft defence (along with numerous smaller-calibre guns), Mikuma was sunk before any conversion could be carried out and AFAIK Kumano remained in it's post-refit configuration.

Whichever gets chosen we'll have something accurate to some part of the WWII PTO though.

Edited January 6, 2024 by Northstar98

[Silver_Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

The Mogami was, but the Suyuza, Mikuma and Kumano weren't. Suyuza would later have 5-inch twin mounts replace the rear 20.3 cm/50 turrets to improve anti-aircraft defence (along with numerous smaller-calibre guns), Mikuma would be sank before any conversion could be carried out and AFAIK Kumano remained in it's post-refit configuration.

Whichever gets chosen we'll have something accurate to some part of the WWII PTO though.

Added data. Yes, the Mogami was converted as the Ise on a intent to "bost" the Kiro Butai with some as "CVLs"

[Grimleo]

My priority would have been destroyers.

[Oban]

These cruisers are festooned with AAA, it's going to be pretty difficult to penetrate their defences lol

[Silver_Dragon]

My priority would have been destroyers.

By now, ED only has show the CA Mogami, but they thalk about PTO assets pack, surely more coming on the future.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

These cruisers are festooned with AAA, it's going to be pretty difficult to penetrate their defences lol

The IJN ships was a lack of AAA weapons on the early PTO, and actualy dont know the year of ship modeled, wait to see the version and year.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[saburo_cz]

2 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

and actualy dont know the year of ship modeled, wait to see the version and year.

Considering the Type 22 radars on the main mast, she represents second half of 1944 year.

Edited January 6, 2024 by saburo_cz

[BIGNEWY]

It should be noted the cruiser being done is post refit 1944+

[Silver_Dragon]

18 minutes ago, saburo_cz said:

Considering the Type 22 radars on the main mast, she represents second half of 1944 year.

 

August 44, when all remain ships get Type 22.

[Northstar98]

16 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

It should be noted the cruiser being done is post refit 1944+

So, presumably it will be the Mogami, after being modified as an aviation cruiser?

[Silver_Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

So, presumably it will be the Mogami, after being modified as an aviation cruiser?

I think that will be the Suzuka or Kumano brothers mogami ships. Mogami was refited as "CVL" from Jun - Jul 1944, before Type 22 refit.

[Northstar98]

30 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

I think that will be the Suzuka or Kumano brothers mogami ships. Mogami was refited as "CVL" from Jun - Jul 1944, before Type 22 refit.

Yeah but in the trailer I can’t see either 5-inch DP guns (Suyuza) or the 20.3 cm/50 guns (Kumamo) on the back, so presumably we have the Mogami post-conversion.

[rkk01]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:53 AM, Oban said:

These cruisers are festooned with AAA, it's going to be pretty difficult to penetrate their defences lol

Yep… given the gunnery accuracy in DCS… even the S-Boat and Type VII U Boat are very difficult to attack

BUT - absolutely delighted to see these and CV-6.  Great stuff ED

 

(can we hope for some Fletchers…?)

[upyr1]

It's awesome we're getting them 

[Silver_Dragon]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:14 AM, saburo_cz said:

Considering the Type 22 radars on the main mast, she represents second half of 1944 year.

 

@saburo_cz I confirm them... the "2024 and beyond" show a Mogami CVL version... see the steam catapults and the aircrafts supports aft... not mach with the other sister ships and not sure if the two ships has identical. The problem, that is not a AM6 Zero / Torpedo bomber or dive bomber, only eight E16A1 Zuiun [Paul] floatplanes (11 Max) or E13A1, E8N2 floatplanes. Other problem as.... not see a little short aft?.

null
 

Quote

Mogami:
• 5 Jun 42: Damaged bow in collision with Mikuma, speed reduced to 12 (later 14) knots.
• 7 Jun 42: Damaged by dive bombers during Battle of Midway. Underwent temporary repairs at Truk, left for Sasebo.
• 11 Aug 42 - 30 Apr 43: Battle damage repaired, modified as aircraft cruiser. Two aft turrets removed, aircraft handling facilities expanded. Planned load 11 E16A1 Zuiun [Paul] floatplanes, actual aircraft complement 4 E13A1, 3 E8N2. Type 21 radar fitted. Lt AA (3)10 Type 96 25mm, Lt AA 3.6.
• 5 Nov 43: Heavily damaged at Rabaul by dive bomber. After emergency repairs at Truk proceeded to Kure.
• 22 Dec 43 - 17 Feb 44: Repaired at Kure, (1)8 25mm added, Lt AA 4.6.
• 25 Jun - 8 Jul 44: Refitted at Kure. 2 Type 22, one Type 13 radar, (3)4, (1)10 25mm added, Lt AA 7.2. Air group changed to eight E16A1 Zuiun [Paul] floatplanes.
• Aug 44: Both Type 22 radars modified to add FC-S capability.
• 25 Oct 44: Damaged by gunfire during Battle of Surigao Strait, withdrew, unable to control fires and control damage. Attacked by aircraft, suffered bomb hits, abandoned, then sunk by DD Akebono.

Missing the Kumaro and Suzuka Mogami CA sisters. About CVs, a IJN "fast" build CVL ship will be a Chitose (1943) or a Shinyo CVL, all capables to carry AM6 Zeros or a fleet carrier as the Jun'yō.

@NineLine @BIGNEWY Will get other pic of the ship?.

Edited January 8, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[Angelthunder]

Will we get an AI Aichi E13 Floatplane which were used on these ships for recon duties according to Wikipedia.

[Northstar98]

Some more juicy shots from today's newsletter:

[Silver_Dragon]

That pics has with math with the "all gun" cruisers, the secundary guns has diferents. The detail has... ED maintain the CVL version of the Mogami from "2024 and Beyond"?

[MAXsenna]

Some more juicy shots from today's newsletter:

Whoa! That looks like a model kit. Impressive!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Northstar98]

Yeah - looks really good (though those forward 2 turrets shouldn't have rangefinders):

[Flappie]

The rangefinder inconsistency is now reported.