from ground up Will the Full Fidelity MiG-29A use existing FC3 assists, or will it be built more or less from the ground up?

[WinterH]

22 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

M2000 got really in mass production in late 80. The variant we got is more advanced one. It’s out of Cold War era.

Is it really though? As far as I know, they went into service pretty much the same time with MiG-29, 1982 if I recall correctly, and the version we have with RDI radar went into service in 1986-87ish. Ours have a few later updates, but they aren't  really big things, it works very well as the late Cold War type.

FM I won't comment beyond I also think it probably is on the optimistic side, but that's just me thinking, have nothing to prove it either way. Systems wise however, it is one of the best modeled modules in DCS, and is a great representative of the most advanced fighters from 80s. And while it may be easier to win in a guns dogfight with 2000, if they both have their expected dogfighting armaments, I'd say helmet sight + R-73 still means MiG will more often be the one coming on top.

I really hope when we eventually get an F-15C or A, it will also have an 80s version included. 1975-1995ish period is by far the cooles and most fitting for DCS imo, and it is becoming more and more fleshed out. Give me AH-1W of that exact vintage, Su-17M4, Jaguar, and we're more or less golden. We already have Tornado, MiG-23MLA, A-7E, A-6E either coming or planned anway. MiG-29A will fit very well into this, as does the Mirage 2000C RDI.

[pepin1234]

7 hours ago, WinterH said:

Is it really though? As far as I know, they went into service pretty much the same time with MiG-29, 1982 if I recall correctly, and the version we have with RDI radar went into service in 1986-87ish. Ours have a few later updates, but they aren't  really big things, it works very well as the late Cold War type.

FM I won't comment beyond I also think it probably is on the optimistic side, but that's just me thinking, have nothing to prove it either way. Systems wise however, it is one of the best modeled modules in DCS, and is a great representative of the most advanced fighters from 80s. And while it may be easier to win in a guns dogfight with 2000, if they both have their expected dogfighting armaments, I'd say helmet sight + R-73 still means MiG will more often be the one coming on top.

I really hope when we eventually get an F-15C or A, it will also have an 80s version included. 1975-1995ish period is by far the cooles and most fitting for DCS imo, and it is becoming more and more fleshed out. Give me AH-1W of that exact vintage, Su-17M4, Jaguar, and we're more or less golden. We already have Tornado, MiG-23MLA, A-7E, A-6E either coming or planned anway. MiG-29A will fit very well into this, as does the Mirage 2000C RDI.

Cold War was ended for the general public when Soviet empire fell. For the real military actions the real end of Cold War started before. I don’t want start a debate about that because is off topic.

M2000 is out of Cold War real war actions and the version we got in DCS is not suitable to simulate a Cold War. 

Mig-29A was deployed and ready for real action from 1984. 

on top of that the FM of our M2000 is just out all logics of physic. 

[F-2]

2 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

Cold War was ended for the general public when Soviet empire fell. For the real military actions the real end of Cold War started before. I don’t want start a debate about that because is off topic.

M2000 is out of Cold War real war actions and the version we got in DCS is not suitable to simulate a Cold War. 

Mig-29A was deployed and ready for real action from 1984. 

on top of that the FM of our M2000 is just out all logics of physic. 

I wouldn’t bring it up then. This is just arguing over alternative history. The Cold War never turned hot in real life and arguing if a fictional scenario would have happed in say 1982 or 1987 or whatever is kinda moot. You’re unlikely to get every single module to meet at the same year. 

[pepin1234]

4 minutes ago, F-2 said:

I wouldn’t bring it up then. This is just arguing over alternative history. The Cold War never turned hot in real life and arguing if a fictional scenario would have happed in say 1982 or 1987 or whatever is kinda moot. You’re unlikely to get every single module to meet at the same year. 

Moreover. IAF have both fighters. Mig-29 have the mayor advantage in dogfight. IAF pilots tell very clear M2000 have no options against Mig-29 in that scenery. In DCS our M2000 overturn Mig-29 in the first merge. So the simulation there is just not close to reality

[F-2]

1 minute ago, pepin1234 said:

Moreover. IAF have both fighters. Mig-29 have the mayor advantage in dogfight. IAF pilots tell very clear M2000 have no options against Mig-29 in that scenery. In DCS our M2000 overturn Mig-29 in the first merge. So the simulation there is just not close to reality

I thought about this a few time. I believe it is correct but our mirage does have a more powerful engine then the India mirage did at the time, I don’t know if that can or cannot make the difference in sustained turning. Mig has excellent thrust to weight but is a draggy design and suffers somewhat in sustained turning. On the other hand the mirage is a delta wing and even with the new engine it doesn’t match the migs thrust. It does however have relaxed stability with its fly by wire which cuts down on drag in a turn. I’m not sure, I think with the new engine the mirage an fulcrum should be comparable.

 

the instantaneous turn rate is interesting. If the fulcrum did show itself to have a higher instantaneous turn rate in testing it wouldn’t matter if the engine changed. Both aircraft have excellent ITR, though I heard from a Fulcrum pilot it’s difficult to fully exploit (he also fought the mirage and was disappointed by it). I don’t know if the Fulcrum is under performing or the mirage over performing.

[nima2014]

According to this video, there will be no new FM, they’ll use the existing FC3 FM

[Silver_Dragon]

2 minutes ago, nima2014 said:

According to this video, there will be no new FM, they’ll use the existing FC3 FM

The actual Mig-29 FM has PFM, that no require a new FM.

[pepin1234]

2 hours ago, nima2014 said:

According to this video, there will be no new FM, they’ll use the existing FC3 FM

Of course there will be extra tunes to that PFM.

steering wheel is a no go now, Air brake is not real (do open in every speed rate)

[AeriaGloria]

3 hours ago, nima2014 said:

According to this video, there will be no new FM, they’ll use the existing FC3 FM

What’s wrong with FM? I quite like it now the 2.9 brought damper changes and ground effect 

[Gierasimov]

7 hours ago, nima2014 said:

According to this video, there will be no new FM, they’ll use the existing FC3 FM

Don't worry, flight model will be tweaked / corrected if there is a need for it. 

Also, in that video Bagdad is being "sold" as Bagram, so who knows... As always, if there is public data to support any claims, including FM they will make it right, they are the best! 

In addition, remember that Fulcrum is the testbed for the new AI GFM (was it General Flight Model?)  Which makes it even more exciting to wait for the future Fulcrum AI flight members 

Edited January 12 by Gierasimov

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

7 hours ago, nima2014 said:

According to this video, there will be no new FM, they’ll use the existing FC3 FM

The FC3 aircraft have good FMs, just simplified systems. Using it and then updating as development progresses makes a lot of sense.

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

In addition, remember that Fulcrum is the testbed for the new AI GFM (was it General Flight Model?)  Which makes it even more exciting to wait for the future Fulcrum AI flight members 

Yes, that's GFM but it's not linked specifically to MiG-29 - all AI aircraft are planned to have FM upgraded.

[JetFighterGirl]

11 minutes ago, draconus said:

Yes, that's GFM but it's not linked specifically to MiG-29 - all AI aircraft are planned to have FM upgraded.

Yes, correct but so far all updates about GFM were showcasing its capabilities using Fulcrum:

 

It was expected to be a thing in 2022 as per the original announcement (General Flight Model (digitalcombatsimulator.com)), but frankly I was looking forward to it in 2023. So perhaps it will come with Fulcrum. Perhaps in 2024. 

[BIGNEWY]

Folks keep the discussion on the thread topic. 

GFM could have used any of the AI aircraft as a test bed, the MiG-29 AI was used, it is not significant for the FF DCS: MiG-29A, GFM will improve all AI aircraft in the future. 

thanks

[JetFighterGirl]

50 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Folks keep the discussion on the thread topic. 

GFM could have used any of the AI aircraft as a test bed, the MiG-29 AI was used, it is not significant for the FF DCS: MiG-29A, GFM will improve all AI aircraft in the future. 

thanks

Staying on topic, sir, from the perspective of Fulcrum-A and its AI flight members GFM matters a lot. 

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, JetFighterGirl said:

Staying on topic, sir, from the perspective of Fulcrum-A and its AI flight members GFM matters a lot. 

sure but it isnt the topic of this thread. GFM is for all AI 

thank you