waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Swiso]

3 hours ago, imacken said:

I think we can give up on that, just like the long-promised - by Baltic Dragon - updates to the Training Missions.  They have been badly out of date for years and, for new users, are of VERY limited use.

I agree... I lost hope that we will finally see a complete and finished manual for the Harrier.

And that speak volume about the reliability and seriousness of RB business model....

[LordOrion]

4 minutes ago, Swiso said:

I agree... I lost hope that we will finally see a complete and finished manual for the Harrier.

And that speak volume about the reliability and seriousness of RB business model....

/this

Thanks to god we have Chuck's Guides.

[Gizmo03]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Rudel_chw:

 on one hand I'd like to stick to my resolution on no purchases until the RB issue is solved

That's what i mean. What's your plan in case they don't solve the problems - in worst case they remove all RB modules from DCS (maybe even without a refund). Do you completely stop playing DCS? Don't get me wrong. I don't want to be offensive. But i'm just curious because people (not related to you but generally) are saying they will not buy anything anymore as long as ED and RB didn't solve their dispute. So what.... i can't imagine that all theses people will abandon DCS forever in case ED and RB don't find a solution and RB will leave DCS and all their modules will not get any further support. I mean.... there is no alternative.

[AerialTeddy]

20 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

I agree, since this RB issue started I have skipped on pre-purchasing both Afghanistan and the Chinook, where I previously used to pre-purchase almost every module.

 

Now, I'm really torn with the upcoming Kola Map, which as a big fan of the Viggen I have looked forward to having for a long time now: on one hand I'd like to stick to my resolution on no purchases until the RB issue is solved, but on the other I really really wanted to fly on Kola .. probably I will wait until I can see a full review before deciding one way or the other (while prior to the RB issue I would have bought at first chance).

 

Hopefully ED will realize that it is losing sales, however small or large they may be, and strive to fix this dispute quickly.

Why is it up to ED to resolve the issue or else you'd boycott ED? This is a RAZBAM AND ED issue and there's no verdict on if ED is on the wrong side. As far as many can see, ED has played by the book.

[LordOrion]

3 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

That's what i mean. What's your plan in case they don't solve the problems - in worst case they remove all RB modules from DCS (maybe even without a refund). Do you completely stop playing DCS?

Well, losing my AV-8NA, M-2000C and F-15E will piss me off at level "over 9k", but I will keep playing DCS anyway.

[Gizmo03]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb LordOrion:

Well, losing my AV-8NA, M-2000C and F-15E will piss me off at level "over 9k", but I will keep playing DCS anyway.

100% agree. I don't care about the Mig-19 (i would of curse feel sorry for everyone who likes it) and i don't use the M-2000 very often. But the Harrier is one of my absolute favorite modules and i really like the F-15E - in fact it could be my second favorite one when it's finished. But no matter what happens between ED and RB: i will for sure continue playing DCS. And i will also continue purchasing their modules and the ones from 3rd parties.

Edited April 29, 2024 by Gizmo03

[Swiso]

11 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

/this

Thanks to god we have Chuck's Guides.

Yep...but it's not fair...seeing how "they" claim about not being paid for their work....then..how about giving "some" of "their" money to Chuck, since we have to depend on his brilliant, magnificent and indispensable guides?

Maybe Chuck wouldn't agree to that (), but if we talk about "correctness", then this should be taken in consideration.

[Rudel_chw]

14 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

That's what i mean. What's your plan in case they don't solve the problems - in worst case they remove all RB modules from DCS (maybe even without a refund). Do you completely stop playing DCS?

 

No, probably not, but I can for sure cut my loses and stop purchasing more Modules ... I already have enough DCS Modules to keep me entertained for years.

 

14 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to be offensive. But i'm just curious because people (not related to you but generally) are saying they will not buy anything anymore as long as ED and RB didn't solve their dispute.

 

You are not being offensive, I understand your point ... mine is that I can't simply sit and do nothing, and the only thing I can do at the moment is just to stop buying more DCS stuff, I feel like it is the only way I have to make my concern show off to both ED and RB.

15 minutes ago, AerialTeddy said:

Why is it up to ED to resolve the issue or else you'd boycott ED?

 

This is not a boycott, that option needs more people and organization ... this is just plain me trying to cut my loses, I can't simply let the money I spent on all of the RB Modules (and that I purchased at ED e-store) go to waste.

 

15 minutes ago, AerialTeddy said:

This is a RAZBAM AND ED issue and there's no verdict on if ED is on the wrong side. As far as many can see, ED has played by the book.

 

I agree, and I'm not saying that ED is on the wrong side ... but I did purchase the affected Modules on THEIR store, so they do have a responsibility on this issue.

[Gizmo03]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Rudel_chw:

No, probably not, but I can for sure cut my loses and stop purchasing more Modules ... I already have enough DCS Modules to keep me entertained for years.

Ok, got it. That's as understandable as sad because that would mean: no MiG-29, no A-6, no A-7, no F-8 and the worst thing: no Tornado. But i can understand what you mean
Let's just hope this scenario is not going to happen. We will see - hopefully soon.

[HWasp]

1 hour ago, LordOrion said:

I understand Razbam's point: not being paid for your hard work is not nice. On the other hand, however, the decision "take revenge" on the Users by blocking the development of the modules they payd (good money) for "doesn't seem fair" to me. 

This istuation looks like those strikes in which a group of people blocks the road traffic to protest against the government: if you think that people stuck in their cars will start to support your cause then you are wrong.

 

 

If they are not paid for a long time, the devs have to leave at some point to earn a living somewhere else.... That is not a protest.

[Ignition]

5 hours ago, Gizmo03 said:

That's what i mean. What's your plan in case they don't solve the problems - in worst case they remove all RB modules from DCS (maybe even without a refund). Do you completely stop playing DCS? Don't get me wrong. I don't want to be offensive. But i'm just curious because people (not related to you but generally) are saying they will not buy anything anymore as long as ED and RB didn't solve their dispute. So what.... i can't imagine that all theses people will abandon DCS forever in case ED and RB don't find a solution and RB will leave DCS and all their modules will not get any further support. I mean.... there is no alternative.

In the worst case, IF ED don't refund the modules then my trust in ED is done so no more money from me for anything.

I will enjoy all the modules and maps I've already bought but I will not buy anything more.

I'm not even flying the F-15E lately, I feel like wasting time learning the module if this whole situation doesn't get resolved favorably.

Edited April 29, 2024 by Ignition

[Sr.]

3 minutes ago, Ignition said:

In the worst case, IF ED don't refund the modules then my trust in ED is done so no more money from me for anything.

I will enjoy all the modules and maps I've already bought but I will not buy anything more.

Same

[LordOrion]

4 hours ago, HWasp said:

If they are not paid for a long time, the devs have to leave at some point to earn a living somewhere else.... That is not a protest.

Sure, but it doesn't seem like the entire Razbam team is gone: they are still working other non-DCS projects ATM...

So, why they can afford to pay devs for these projects and not for DCS ones? I mean: we know that 2 (AFAIK) devs of the F-15E team left the company, but were they all and the only ones dealing with DCS in Razbam? I don't think so.

[DaWu]

1 hour ago, LordOrion said:

Sure, but it doesn't seem like the entire Razbam team is gone: they are still working other non-DCS projects ATM...

So, why they can afford to pay devs for these projects and not for DCS ones? I mean: we know that 2 (AFAIK) devs of the F-15E team left the company, but were they all and the only ones dealing with DCS in Razbam? I don't think so.

We know nothing and just cos they ranted they want to quit doesn’t mean they actually quit. Anyway devs can be replaced. RB needs to get their game up and finish the f15. 
and no ED will not remove your mirage or harrier from your account. You paid for it. Not gonna happen 

[Ignition]

The business model of ED seems unstable. This same thing can happen with any other 3rd party.

[huchanronaa]

2024/4/22 PM9點24分，huchanronaa说：

What happened? To quote a netizen on reddit:

superdookietoiletexp

•18 天前•Edited 18 天前

 

 

The simplest explanation of what is going on is that Razbam was drawing on code they developed for DCS to build modules for another platform (maybe MSFS, maybe some professional simulator for military clients). ED thinks it owns the code and stops paying Razbam to force them to stop using it. Razbam refuses to stop and retaliates against ED by putting out the statement today. This can probably all be sorted out through mediation but that will take a while and us players will lose out in the interim.

The truth of the matter may be that razbam was unwilling to pay certain royalties to ED, so ED stopped paying RAZBAM module sales remuneration, and then RAZBAM stopped updating the DCS RAZBAM module as a means of retaliation.
But the price ED and razbam must pay is customers’ trust in ED and razbam

Edited April 30, 2024 by huchanronaa

[unknown]

Tbh the only one i lost trust in completely is Razbam, it's not the first time they abandoned support for their products. Maybe they return and call it an "misunderstanding", but for me no more Razbam products. And i'm not concerned about ED and DCS as an "eco system" right now, but if Heatblur would leave the ship it's probably time to get back to BMS.

[LordOrion]

9 hours ago, DaWu said:

We know nothing and just cos they ranted they want to quit doesn’t mean they actually quit. Anyway devs can be replaced. RB needs to get their game up and finish the f15. 
and no ED will not remove your mirage or harrier from your account. You paid for it. Not gonna happen 

Like for the Hawk?

Yes, I still have the Hawk on my account but I can't play with it anymore.

[Silver_Dragon]

55 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

Like for the Hawk?

Yes, I still have the Hawk on my account but I can't play with it anymore.

Remember the source files of the Hawk was never provided by VEAO to ED. Without that files, the product cant be updated and turn unusable on the simulator.

[LordOrion]

32 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Remember the source files of the Hawk was never provided by VEAO to ED. Without that files, the product cant be updated and turn unusable on the simulator.

Having the modules sources is only half of the problem.

[some1]

ED has no intention to take over and continue development of 3rd party module if the original developer ceases the support. Chizh and other ED team memebers made it pretty clear on the Russian thread recently. Regardless of whether Razbam issue gets resolved or not, that seems to be the current stance about all 3rd parties and it's not much different to how it works with MSFS, Xplane or even Steam itself.

Translation: https://forum-dcs-world.translate.goog/topic/317495-dcs-f-15e-strike-eagle-ot-razbam/page/30/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

Edited April 30, 2024 by some1

[LordOrion]

5 minutes ago, some1 said:

ED has no intention to take over and continue development of 3rd party module if the original developer ceases the support. Chizh and other ED team memebers made it pretty clear on the Russian thread recently. Regardless of whether Razbam issue gets resolved or not, that seems to be the current stance about all 3rd parties and it's not much different to how it works with MSFS, Xplane or even Steam itself.

Translation: https://forum-dcs-world.translate.goog/topic/317495-dcs-f-15e-strike-eagle-ot-razbam/page/30/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

 

 

That's exactly what I meant... and what I feared!

[Darth Holliday]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:48 AM, Hiob said:

Quote Razbam:

Dear customers and community RAZBAM Simulations is actively working with EAGLE DYNAMICS to reach an agreement to resolve our internal dispute and we don't want the discussion that our public declaration has generated to escalate any further. We want to assure you that it has never been nor will it be our intention to abandon our products. We look forward to a prompt and satisfactory resolution, turn the page, and move forward.

We have different ways of processing information - that's for sure.

  

     Yes...The snub last word way and not....LOL...

[nessuno0505]

Il 29/4/2024 at 13:57, Gizmo03 ha scritto:

For people who are really into mil. flight simulations there is only DCS at the moment. At the moment there is no choice. Stopping with DCS means stop playing mil. flight sims (serous ones) at all because there is no competition at the moment.

That's not totally true to be honest: there's falcon bms.

[nessuno0505]

Il 29/4/2024 at 16:56, Rudel_chw ha scritto:

I can for sure cut my loses and stop purchasing more Modules ... I already have enough DCS Modules to keep me entertained for years.

This. A real life pilot masters 2-3 airplanes in his whole career. We often buy to support development, many modules are stuck in hangar and used once or twice. I can focus on the modules I already own and still enjoy dcs. No need to buy further.

Edited May 2, 2024 by nessuno0505