waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[primus_TR]

20 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

I disagree, I think it is a good thing to have someone from the Razbam team here, even if he can be somewhat upset with people that write opinions without really knowing all the facts.

I don't think one must have all pieces of a jigsaw puzzle in place to know what the picture is of. 

Edited May 6, 2024 by primus_TR

[DaWu]

How about an update ED? We paid for it ! The trust loss is already massive 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

[OldFlyer]

15 hours ago, NineLine said:

The request has been pushed through, he was using the automated system and we asked him to wait to see as we didn't know how long it would take. (never seen anyone use it) Then honestly I forgot about it, it's been busy and people deleting their accounts isn't on top of my todo list, but long story short I have granted his wish so replying to him will not get anywhere here now.

We do not usually delete accounts for various reasons just as an FYI.

Thanks. 

Nineline, any chance you could please (with a  on top) ask the powers that be for an update? Is that Nick Grey? Wags? 

Respectfully, there are many frustrated customers out here that just want to know what's happening with the ongoing development of our modules - be it F15E, AV8B, etc. You can see evidence of this on all forms of social media. 

No information on the actual issue at hand is needed, it's none of our business. We just want to know when someone (be it RAZBAM, ED, whoever) will resume development on the modules, that's all. 

[Wacko_ZA]

Guys ED wont expand, explain, or tell us anything. Both BN and NL have stated numerous times that they will not be discussing the matter with us, the paying, supporting public.
They are also not offering refunds.

Maybe they should learn from other games and the hot messes they stepped into recently, and offer more transparency and support? just a thought... (HD2 and EFT didnt make good forbes headlines)

[NineLine]

Yes, sorry, no updates right now. I am sad that we are in a place where you guys have to ask and we can't give anymore. I know that the two teams working on it, and as soon as we have anything we will share it. I like all of you am eager to put this behind us. It wasn't on my bingo card for this year with all the exciting stuff we had lined up. And I can't say enough how sorry I am you all are going through this, for whatever it might be worth if anything. Thanks.

[Rudel_chw]

13 minutes ago, NineLine said:

for whatever it might be worth if anything

Actually, it is worth it, thanks for your encouraging words 

[OldFlyer]

55 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Yes, sorry, no updates right now. I am sad that we are in a place where you guys have to ask and we can't give anymore. I know that the two teams working on it, and as soon as we have anything we will share it. I like all of you am eager to put this behind us. It wasn't on my bingo card for this year with all the exciting stuff we had lined up. And I can't say enough how sorry I am you all are going through this, for whatever it might be worth if anything. Thanks.

Fair enough. Thanks very much for the response, I do appreciate it and I’m sure others do too.

[falcon_120]

I do appreciate the response. I hope that spirit will transcend upwards and i really hope we can soon leave all this mess behind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[huchanronaa]

16小时前，NineLine说：

Yes, sorry, no updates right now. I am sad that we are in a place where you guys have to ask and we can't give anymore. I know that the two teams working on it, and as soon as we have anything we will share it. I like all of you am eager to put this behind us. It wasn't on my bingo card for this year with all the exciting stuff we had lined up. And I can't say enough how sorry I am you all are going through this, for whatever it might be worth if anything. Thanks.

 One engineer in the f-15e development team who is responsible for the radar system and another engineer who is responsible for the art are said to have resigned.

So even if it’s done, I don’t know when updates can be resumed.

[Gierasimov]

Just as I was getting serious about Strike Eagle and anticipating Flogger... well, let's hope for the best.

@huchanronaa - when the Hornet ground radar guy was 'lost', it took a year to find a replacement (if I correctly remember what Wags said) and more months to align the new person and more months to redo the stuff, and this was the ED. Not sure if Razbam has such a power to make people who left to come back or even attract a new talent. 

Form me the secondary knock on effect of this is that I completely resigned from getting Orbx product and in my mind no other 3rd party early access anymore.  

[Ignition]

ED is busy with all these releases happening at the same time it seems. The F-15E it's old news now and down the priority.

[RaisedByWolves]

It’s all mental masturbation. Go on with your lives. Maybe someday the two supposed toughest nerds on the block will figure this out. Or not.

[Czar66]

The more the assumptions keep on going, the more the ones that makes them gets themselves frustrated. At worst, is validating negative thoughts about the situation from someone that comes in a read the posts and take it as fact of what's going to happen, while no one has the whole picture.

Feels genuine the words and with a pulse of a human being dedicated to answer the community the best they can do, coming from NineLine, with the best they have/can speak about it.
With all honesty, thank you for caring and keep us updated with kindness in such an abrasive thread.

I just like to ask for everyone in this forum in regard to this situation to remember these devs are real people and working by passion. This is a tiny tiny niche genre, regardless of how much it grew.

Be kind.... at least with some patience if kind is not that possible.

[Ignition]

How much patience do I need? we are now 3 months without module updates. I need patience for 6 months?, 8, 12? I don't know, I'm waiting for ED to tell me how much patience do I need.

I barely play DCS now. We have 0 official news, this damage control is very bad. I feel cheated. Is everyone waiting for the release of the F-4 to forget about this?

Sorry but I'm a little angry about this management. I feel like I don't have the money and neither the aircraft. I've bought many modules to support the Devs from different companies even if I did never fly them. We supported ED and Razbam, some, little, information would be something.

I had very high hopes for the F-15E and now I feel like if the development continues it will not be the same aircraft it would have been.

Edited May 8, 2024 by Ignition

[SkateZilla]

Why is everyone acting like the F-15E is gone?

It's still functioning the same as it was prior to the disagreement being public, it's not like it was removed or disabled.

Even if there was no disagreement, there's no guarantee there would be updates with every patch, especially new features and/or major fixes..

[eFirehawk]

10 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Why is everyone acting like the F-15E is gone?

It's still functioning the same as it was prior to the disagreement being public, it's not like it was removed or disabled.

Even if there was no disagreement, there's no guarantee there would be updates with every patch, especially new features and/or major fixes..

Due to information from outside ED, such as Discord and Reddit where the developers themselves publicly stated that, given the situation, they quit, and that there is no effort from ED's part to help come to an agreement. Latest (that I know of) from a former team member in their own Discord server is that ED is actually leaving them in the dark comms-wise. That's what's causing most of the commotion now I believe.

In practice, we missed an update due to a development halt and I believe there is potential for this to go on for a while longer, or, the worst case that we all fear.

[AndyJWest]

28 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Why is everyone acting like the F-15E is gone?

It's still functioning the same as it was prior to the disagreement being public, it's not like it was removed or disabled.

Even if there was no disagreement, there's no guarantee there would be updates with every patch, especially new features and/or major fixes..

Experience tells us that given regular updates to the DCS core, third-party modules may need active developer support just to keep functioning properly.  

[OldFlyer]

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Why is everyone acting like the F-15E is gone?

It's still functioning the same as it was prior to the disagreement being public, it's not like it was removed or disabled.

Even if there was no disagreement, there's no guarantee there would be updates with every patch, especially new features and/or major fixes..

"Functioning", yes. But if you look at the RAZBAM discord there are over 80 bugs listed. You can read them for yourself. That's before any of the planned CTU updates.

And of course, there's no guarantee that bugs would be fixed even absent the disagreement, but that would heavily tarnish a developer's reputation. So in that world it wouldn't be a realistic situation if said developer wanted to stay in business and sell future modules.

[SkateZilla]

Apologies, let me rephrase.

The Announcement has no effect on the module's current state (Future State, yes, current state no.)

Which is why I'm asking, why users that purchased and was flying the module with no problem a month ago, are now saying they can't fly the module due to the dispute.

The Module didn't magically have a stroke just because it wasn't actively being developed during the patch cycle.

That's all I'm asking,

I'm fully aware of the status of bugs, and what halted development / support means for future state and issues.

However, that is not the case for right now, and the current DCS Build.

As for "Radio Silent" Rumors, they are just that, rumors. And I Doubt anyone would be communicating w/ former employees, the contract with between ED<>RB, not ED and RBs employees directly.

[AndyJWest]

Clearly, not everyone participating in this thread has the same opinions on where the current undetermined state of future developments leaves us. Personally, I'm reluctant to put any more time into further learning F-15E systems etc as thoroughly as I would if I were more confident it was going to remain flyable, and to have new content added per the sales pitch. And more generally, this debacle has left me distinctly disinclined to contemplate further DCS purchases. I very much doubt I'm alone in this, either.

 

[eFirehawk]

47 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Which is why I'm asking, why users that purchased and was flying the module with no problem a month ago, are now saying they can't fly the module due to the dispute.

 

I think I can explain that one (from my perspective at least):

Until some months ago we saw constant progress and trust that the module would not only be maintained, but also have more of the promised features available (such as new tpods, datalink, etc) and that some of the very annoying issues still present (such as guns pipper) would eventually be fixed. This makes you confident that you can spend the time learning the module - and while some features are missing, you can still learn others and have the confidence that some years from now you'll not only have learned the module, but the missing features will come and you will enjoy it for years. This confidence makes it worthwhile to learn and enjoy the module NOW.

Suddenly, from one moment to the next, grave statements are made, progress comes to a halt and most of the team dissolves. Suddenly, not only the confidence that the module one day will be feature complete is shattered, but even worse, even the stability of its current state isn't guaranteed either, which means its quality might actually degrade over time.

With that in mind, to be frank, I wouldn't waste my time flying a module that remains unfinished and missing important features which actually has a chance of degrading over time unless you never update DCS again... I don't know about you, but flying a module when there is such danger present (and believable, to a degree given statements made by RB's team members) is a MASSIVE turn-off.

And of course according to the EULA, no refunds either if support for the module is dropped.

Edited May 8, 2024 by eFirehawk

[Mainstay]

44 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Apologies, let me rephrase.

The Announcement has no effect on the module's current state (Future State, yes, current state no.)

Which is why I'm asking, why users that purchased and was flying the module with no problem a month ago, are now saying they can't fly the module due to the dispute.

The Module didn't magically have a stroke just because it wasn't actively being developed during the patch cycle.

That's all I'm asking,

I'm fully aware of the status of bugs, and what halted development / support means for future state and issues.

However, that is not the case for right now, and the current DCS Build.

As for "Radio Silent" Rumors, they are just that, rumors. And I Doubt anyone would be communicating w/ former employees, the contract with between ED<>RB, not ED and RBs employees directly.

Hi Skate,

In my opinion you’re partially right on the subjects of matter. 
Indirect we are feeling the effect right now since development and updates halted. 
The programmer that was responsible for the radar coding quit and said goodbye. I don’t know what exactly the other people were developing that left as well. What I’m trying to say is, even when the fire is out and the hatches are buried it wil take a significant amount of time and effort to get this on the road again… food for thought 

[Rudel_chw]

57 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Which is why I'm asking, why users that purchased and was flying the module with no problem a month ago, are now saying they can't fly the module due to the dispute.

 

On my case, the time I spent learning a module is almost as valuable as the actual cost of it, and while the RB modules still work on DCS just like yesterday, I do worry about the future and if it is worth it to keep learning the F-15E and editing missions for it.

I have already been hit by a very similar issue, with the Hawk, which I was able to use for only a couple of years before DCS was not able to run it in flyable form. I got absolutely no refund and at the time was just relieved that I hadn't also pre-purchased the P-40E from the same 3rd party:

 

 

This time, my stakes are much higher, since I own every one of the RB modules released for DCS, and losing them does not make me a happy customer. I'm still hopeful that RB and ED will fix their relationship, but in the meantime I had refused to invest anymore on DCS, skipping on pre-purchasing Afganistan or the CH-47 ... but Kola did break my resolve, since the Viggen is my absolute favorite DCS aircraft.

 

For the time being, I will keep my fingers crossed, but I doubt that I will purchase more DCS products on the future if this issue is not solved.

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

[SkateZilla]

Thank you guys for the responses.