waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Pipe]

1 hour ago, RaisedByWolves said:

They should keep selling razbam modules. Razbam  probably need the money. Wouldn’t want to see razbam under the queensboro bridge giving handjobs to bums.

Seems like ED just keeping that money, RB getting notta. Still dont think you will see them under said bridge. 

Why are you under there watching anyway?

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

Send me a DM will see if I can help.

No this is different we are not limiting to two weeks in this case although we would like people to stick it out if you really don't want to we will try and work with you.

store credit is not a refund imo...

btw I am holding out for a positve outcome

Edited June 5, 2024 by Pipe

[Slippa]

4 hours ago, NineLine said:

I am Canadian by the way. And yes, judging people by where they live is not welcome here or on any of our socials. Generalizing about a person based on where they are born is sad and weird, please stay on topic. 

Canadian you say? 

 

[lee1hy]

Isn't it right to pay for the previous date that was claimed to be an IP violation?

 

 

People who bought it on Steam can't even try to get a refund and end up going through another hawk scam.

 

[andyn]

When I bought Strike Eagle on day one I had a few assumptions. I assumed it was being developed by a long-term third party who had stable income from a good lineup of popular aircraft modules. I assumed Eagle Dynamics had put proper safeguards in place as they promised after the VEAO fiasco. Both of those assumptions turned up to be based on lies.

After Ron went public, it has become apparent that the current situation has been developing at least since last summer, while ED has knowingly been milking their customers dry despite knowing that Razbam's capability to continue development is degraded.

Both parties have confirmed there is an ongoing IPR dispute. For settling those we have market courts and arbitration clauses. One-sided setoffs are not a thing.

 

My passion has dried up and I can no longer afford to support a company whose main business has been selling empty promises to its customers.

[Gizmo03]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb NineLine:

Please check again after the next patch and let me know, thanks.

Because RB is pushing updates for their modules again??
Sorry - i couldn't resist

[BigBorner]

7 hours ago, NineLine said:

we would like people to stick it out if you really don't want to we will try and work with you.

Ill keep my Mudhen until there is closure to this topic, one way or the other. If it goes down the drain, i would want to exchange it to another module / store credit for another module. I wont be screwed for waiting it out? Pinky promise ?

[deltatango]

15 hours ago, NineLine said:

I am not sure what continued sales of the module have to do with anything when the goal is to solve this and move forward. Removing it from sale would be more of an issue and show less confidence in a solution. I assume this is why its still shown on RAZBAM's own website and a link directing people to ED Store.

I'd say the entire community supports the goal of solving this (whatever exactly 'this' is) and moving forward.

The issue is continuing to sell a product without the correct amount of transparency to the purchaser. I'd suggest a disclaimer to purchasers, something like:

Due to an ongoing, unresolved dispute between Eagle Dynamics and the third party developer, future support for the functionality, or further development of this product cannot be guaranteed. This product is therefore sold as-is and no refunds will be issued. The status of this dispute will continue to be communicated to the community through Eagle Dynamics regular newsletters. We are all hoping this can be solved so this amazing aircraft can continue to be part of DCS World.

I've been a customer of ED since Flanker 2 days and I own waaaay too many DCS modules (including SE, SA map, M2000 & AV-8B), so I really would like to see the SE and all other DCS modules exist and improve.

[tribbin]

42 minutes ago, deltatango said:

I'd say the entire community supports the goal of solving this (whatever exactly 'this' is) and moving forward.

The issue is continuing to sell a product without the correct amount of transparency to the purchaser. I'd suggest a disclaimer to purchasers, something like:

Due to an ongoing, unresolved dispute between Eagle Dynamics and the third party developer, future support for the functionality, or further development of this product cannot be guaranteed. This product is therefore sold as-is and no refunds will be issued. The status of this dispute will continue to be communicated to the community through Eagle Dynamics regular newsletters. We are all hoping this can be solved so this amazing aircraft can continue to be part of DCS World.

I've been a customer of ED since Flanker 2 days and I own waaaay too many DCS modules (including SE, SA map, M2000 & AV-8B), so I really would like to see the SE and all other DCS modules exist and improve.

I get the impression that ED sees a future refund as their way out of any blame, but for many people the dedication in study/practice and heart can not be resolved by a 'refund' (i.e. in-store credit for some other module).

[Mainstay]

I just asked for a refund on the F-15E to my DCS account.

Getting a bit irritated and tired of this situation by being left in the dark.

 

If this takes a few months longer im actually gonna ask for a refund on all RAZBAM products.

Edited June 5, 2024 by Mainstay

[Atazar SPN]

I am sure that this would be easily solved if ED apologized to RAZBAM and resumed its payments. It is no longer a matter of simply sitting at a table and signing new agreements, it is reestablishing the honor of a company that the community itself has discredited. If I were part of the RAZBAM team, I would not want to appear here again for reasons of honor, objection and conscience, unless those who have harmed me publicly apologized to me.

[tribbin]

2 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

I am sure that this would be easily solved if ED apologized to RAZBAM and resumed its payments. It is no longer a matter of simply sitting at a table and signing new agreements, it is reestablishing the honor of a company that the community itself has discredited. If I were part of the RAZBAM team, I would not want to appear here again for reasons of honor, objection and conscience, unless those who have harmed me publicly apologized to me.

Some key devs have publicly stated they will not associate with ED anymore and at this point I do not think an apology would change that. Family and livelihood first; passion and support second.

[ESA_maligno]

hace 3 minutos, tribbin dijo:

Some key devs have publicly stated they will not associate with ED anymore and at this point I do not think an apology would change that. Family and livelihood first; passion and support second.

Who are these developers? More than anything, because if they have products that I have purchased, I would like to know if they are going to be left without updating.

[tribbin]

3 minutes ago, ESA_maligno said:

Who are these developers? More than anything, because if they have products that I have purchased, I would like to know if they are going to be left without updating.

Metal2Mesh, Galinette and CptSmiley.

[Malakhit]

7 minutes ago, tribbin said:

Metal2Mesh, Galinette and CptSmiley.

Both Metal2Mesh and CptSmiley have since said that they'd like to finish the Strike Eagle if the situation is resolved favourably.

Edited June 5, 2024 by Malakhit

[tribbin]

3 minutes ago, Malakhit said:

Both Metal2Mesh and CptSmiley have since said that they'd like to finish the Strike Eagle if the situation is resolved favourably.

 

When was that? As that is not the impression I get currently in our conversations with CptSmiley (going through his messages now).

[ESA_maligno]

hace 11 minutos, tribbin dijo:

Metal2Mesh, Galinette and CptSmiley.

 

Okay, you had me worried.
But that is the same as saying Ron Zambrano; I think M2M, Galinette and CptS are paid by Razbam, I don't think they have direct commercial agreements with ED.

 

Thx

[Swiso]

34 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

I am sure that this would be easily solved if ED apologized to RAZBAM and resumed its payments. It is no longer a matter of simply sitting at a table and signing new agreements, it is reestablishing the honor of a company that the community itself has discredited. If I were part of the RAZBAM team, I would not want to appear here again for reasons of honor, objection and conscience, unless those who have harmed me publicly apologized to me.

How about the IP thing ? 

In your "equation" you left out this "little" detail....

Edited June 5, 2024 by Swiso

[BMO]

Regarding the Razbam-Dispute
An update on the situation would be very very nice. It´s obviously not resolved yet, but it would be good if you could inform the community on where the process currently stands, what the next steps are and when we can expect a result, whatever it´s gonna be.

A lot of the content in the DCS is user-created. Missions, Liveries, Campaings, Servers, 3rd Party tools etc. All those things need time and dedication. Even for End-Users DCS is a thing of time, dedication and last but not least money. That I and I think a lot of the community are happy to spend, looking forward to the immersion and fun we will have in DCS World. With all the upcoming features and such.I know EA is not for everyone and things take time, but the big picture of the RAZ situation, the very slow pace of core improvements, lots new releases and pre-sales, lots of sales in the last time, ED doesnt make a very stable impression.
to say it straight it looks like ED needs money urgently and the game makes the impression that it affects development speed.
this is not a ecosystem a lot of people are willing to invest i think.
So I think everyone wants DCS to be great and has no trouble supporting this by buying modules, but all we get is promises and thats just too little. I will happily start spending money again but right now I´m just out of faith. 

thanks.

[VpR81]

14 hours ago, Atazar SPN said:

Perhaps the racism you speak of is inverse and what is really happening has to do with slight doses of Hispanophobia.

And your conclusion is based on what? Anyways, nice try sir. Desperate, but nice. And as for your other question, you got your answer. Didn´t expect me to have evidence? Now how about responding to my question? Don´t you think that judging people by the place they were born is a form of racism? And does ED tolerate the things i posted?

But, according to the RB discord, i am the one who had no access to equal education? Yeah sure....ROFL (Want screenshot?)
 

14 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

This is idiotic. What is so racist calling russians "russians"?  This garbage has to stop. This be the decade the politically correct destroyed the world.

Idiotic? You saw the screenshot i provided in my recent post. You don´t want to tell me, that this was just calling russians "russians", do you? Believe it or not, but everything i said (and will say) about what is/was going on at the RB discord, is backed with screenshots. And it´s not like you need to watch discord all the time, it is enough to open it like 2 or 3 times a day and it´s almost everytime a hit without scrolling up. Or better was, as the tone on the RB discord surprisingly changed significantly since yesterday, with M2M even jumping in asking for people not to post such stuff anymore. Why such a 180° turn just because of some nonsense posted on the ED forum? I´m pretty sure they wouldn´t, if there weren´t any screenshots of all this. Seems to be the effect when ppl realise their disgusting and primitive language is carried out to the public and they can´t deny it anymore. Very telling, isn´t it? As i said, RB is done for me. And not because of the ED/RB dispute, no, definately not (in fact, i have been tending towards RB in this case, if you check my posts before these things took place - i have been with RB). Because of the tone, hate speech, racism (yes, racism) and personal attacks (i have even seen someone wondering about what the ED staff is doing with ukrainian kids - again, got a screenshot) they have been tolerating on their discord for weeks / months. You go along with things you tolerate, that´s a fact.

And btw: The best thing is, i have seen multiple ppl on the RB discord having the russian flag in their nickname. What do you think must these ppl feel like when they have to read such things? I don´t wan´t to imagine what would be going on there, if the ED team would be of muslim or jewish believe....

14 hours ago, Malakhit said:

I have reached out to Razbam, and it would appear that they had forgotten to update their webstore in some time. They reached out to the folks in charge of their webstore, and are hopefully now discussing next steps.

Wait...

Razbam asked ED (according to Notso) multiple times to take the F-15E out of the ED store, while at the same time they mysteriously forgot that they have their own homepage advertising the Mudhen and linking it to the ED store? Oh realy? I do understand the homepage isn´t their first priority with all these things going on, but if you rant on someone (especially in the way the RB devs did), you should get your own stuff together before doing so. I don´t think this is asked too much, do you?

And when the ppl on the RB discord get confronted with this fact, all they can say is "this should not be put against RB"? Well, fair enough. I would agree, i realy would. If RB wouldn´t rant on ED prior to get their stuff together. But even if, that is not a one way ticket. ED trying to solve this behind closed doors should also not be put against them. Wether the Mudhen should be taken out of the store or not, is debatable. I´ve seen reasonable arguements here for both ways. I personally don´t think that taking the mudhen out of the store will be good for any side, but that is up to them.

[Rainmaker]

3 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

And your conclusion is based on what? Anyways, nice try sir. Desperate, but nice. And as for your other question, you got your answer. Didn´t expect me to have evidence? Now how about responding to my question? Don´t you think that judging people by the place they were born is a form of racism? And does ED tolerate the things i posted?

But, according to the RB discord, i am the one who had no access to equal education? Yeah sure....ROFL (Want screenshot?)
 

Idiotic? You saw the screenshot i provided in my recent post. You don´t want to tell me, that this was just calling russians "russians", do you? Believe it or not, but everything i said (and will say) about what is/was going on at the RB discord, is backed with screenshots. And it´s not like you need to watch discord all the time, it is enough to open it like 2 or 3 times a day and it´s almost everytime a hit without scrolling up. Or better was, as the tone on the RB discord surprisingly changed significantly since yesterday, with M2M even jumping in asking for people not to post such stuff anymore. Why such a 180° turn just because of some nonsense posted on the ED forum? I´m pretty sure they wouldn´t, if there weren´t any screenshots of all this. Seems to be the effect when ppl realise their disgusting and primitive language is carried out to the public and they can´t deny it anymore. Very telling, isn´t it? As i said, RB is done for me. And not because of the ED/RB dispute, no, definately not (in fact, i have been tending towards RB in this case, if you check my posts before these things took place - i have been with RB). Because of the tone, hate speech, racism (yes, racism) and personal attacks (i have even seen someone wondering about what the ED staff is doing with ukrainian kids - again, got a screenshot) they have been tolerating on their discord for weeks / months. You go along with things you tolerate, that´s a fact.

And btw: The best thing is, i have seen multiple ppl on the RB discord having the russian flag in their nickname. What do you think must these ppl feel like when they have to read such things? I don´t wan´t to imagine what would be going on there, if the ED team would be of muslim or jewish believe....

Wait...

Razbam asked ED (according to Notso) multiple times to take the F-15E out of the ED store, while at the same time they mysteriously forgot that they have their own homepage advertising the Mudhen and linking it to the ED store? Oh realy? I do understand the homepage isn´t their first priority with all these things going on, but if you rant on someone (especially in the way the RB devs did), you should get your own stuff together before doing so. I don´t think this is asked too much, do you?

And when the ppl on the RB discord get confronted with this fact, all they can say is "this should not be put against RB"? Well, fair enough. I would agree, i realy would. If RB wouldn´t rant on ED prior to get their stuff together. But even if, that is not a one way ticket. ED trying to solve this behind closed doors should also not be put against them. Wether the Mudhen should be taken out of the store or not, is debatable. I´ve seen reasonable arguements here for both ways. I personally don´t think that taking the mudhen out of the store will be good for any side, but that is up to them.

My gosh….would you stop trying to play the ‘me’ card n this thread over and over.  Perhaps social media in general is not the place for you. 

[hreich]

10 hours ago, Slippa said:

Canadian you say? 

 

What kind of American are you?  

 

[VpR81]

1 minute ago, Rainmaker said:

My gosh….would you stop trying to play the ‘me’ card n this thread over and over.  Perhaps social media in general is not the place for you.

Where exactly do i play the "me" card. I´ve asked what his conclusion of reversed racism is based of. That´s all, the rest is about general stuff going on. If you can´t take it, maybe social media is not for you?

[Atazar SPN]

hace 25 minutos, VpR81 dijo:

And your conclusion is based on what?

My conclusion is based on the community's response when the conflict came to light. On this highly influential channel, we are talking about more than 60,000 followers, they denigrate RAZBAM for being of Latin origin. Don't expect me to translate it for you. I am also Hispanic. Work a little.

[Pipe]

14 hours ago, NineLine said:

Recently?

Please check again after the next patch and let me know, thanks.

Why wait a month? How about a hot fix

[tribbin]

5 minutes ago, Pipe said:

Why wait a month? How about a hot fix

I believe there is a patch today.