waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[NineLine]

On 6/7/2024 at 8:06 AM, BigBorner said:

Understandable. 
 

But would it be possible to make a statement that if one  „waits it out“ and only request a refund once a official statement is made that, indeed, the F-15E will be abandoned by razbam and not being taken over by ED - that this refund request will be accepted and thus a refund will be made? Idc if it’s store credits or not. 

We will do refunds even if the worst possible scenario happens for the F-15E. So there is no risk waiting for it right now. It will be store credit. If the situation is rectified for positive, obviously the refund policy will change to normal.

[NAM]

May be some good can come out of this.

Force ED to make F15C high fidelity.

I am happy to swap the F15E for F15C

[NineLine]

1 minute ago, NAM said:

May be some good can come out of this.

Force ED to make F15C high fidelity.

I am happy to swap the F15E for F15C

Well the desire to do a F-15C FF has nothing to do with the F-15E.

[tribbin]

6 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We will do refunds even if the worst possible scenario happens for the F-15E. So there is no risk waiting for it right now. It will be store credit. If the situation is rectified for positive, obviously the refund policy will change to normal.

How is this for Steam? As I want to try the F-15 early specifically because it might not be useable with current/multiplayer version in the future.

[NineLine]

1 minute ago, tribbin said:

How is this for Steam? As I want to try the F-15 early specifically because it might not be useable with current/multiplayer version in the future.

Steam has their own refund policy, I believe 2 hours playtime on the core game so you would need to reach out to them in this. We cannot control refunds from there.

[PhantomHans]

20 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We will do refunds even if the worst possible scenario happens for the F-15E. So there is no risk waiting for it right now. It will be store credit. If the situation is rectified for positive, obviously the refund policy will change to normal.

That's good to know.

What about, for example, the AV8?  I bought it in January of this year and it's now, as of this moment, unsupported,  meaning it may break at any moment as the core changes.

[mytai01]

Being that this is a business issue between two companies, it's very likely that no public information will be forthcoming until a final agreement, or decision, is reached. It could be good news or bad news, but it won't be any news until a final decision is reached. Hope for the best!

[tribbin]

14 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Steam has their own refund policy, I believe 2 hours playtime on the core game so you would need to reach out to them in this. We cannot control refunds from there.

So to summarize my position:

• If the module becomes incompatible with the then-current version that is used for multiplayer servers and I would get a refund, then I would purchase it.
• If the module remains compatible with the then-current version I would just keep it.

The responses on the ED Discord for my (imho quite reasonable) condition has been vague at best and been called 'bad-faith', 'against policy' (some screenshots) and even people specifically stating they can't wait for my refund to be denied.

Yet in this forum it now seems that the policy would be exactly what I was hoping and asking for.

Why wouldn't this policy propagate to Steam?
 

Edited June 8, 2024 by tribbin

[freehand]

How long does it take for a refund to complete anyone know I am bored of the nonsense ? cheers. 

[LordOrion]

46 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We will do refunds even if the worst possible scenario happens for the F-15E. So there is no risk waiting for it right now. It will be store credit. If the situation is rectified for positive, obviously the refund policy will change to normal.

Thank you.

This is both consoling and reassuring. At this point it makes sense to wait to ask for a refund, hoping for the best.

[tribbin]

1 minute ago, LordOrion said:

Thank you.

This is both consoling and reassuring. At this point it makes sense to wait to ask for a refund, hoping for the best.

*unless you are a Steam user

[BigBorner]

51 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We will do refunds even if the worst possible scenario happens for the F-15E. So there is no risk waiting for it right now. It will be store credit. If the situation is rectified for positive, obviously the refund policy will change to normal.

Thank you. That’s reassuring 

[LordOrion]

3 minutes ago, tribbin said:

*unless you are a Steam user

Some mistakes comes with a very painful payback

Edited June 8, 2024 by LordOrion

[Jester986]

I wasn’t going to buy the 15 because of previous experiences with Razbam. But a squadron mate bought it for me saying “no they got it right this time” and then this happens go figure. If the Mirage, Harrier and mig 19 break. Well I’ll be upset but I won’t quit DCS since it’s the only game in town. But now I’m worried about the longevity of the platform. Hopefully I’m reading too much in the tea leaves. 

[tribbin]

6 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

Some mistakes comes with a very painful payback

I don't know if it is a mistake. I got annoyed by the 2-meter-rim throughout the whole of Kola wherever water meets land and refunding it was effortless.

[freehand]

3 minutes ago, Jester986 said:

I wasn’t going to buy the 15 because of previous experiences with Razbam. But a squadron mate bought it for me saying “no they got it right this time” and then this happens go figure. If the Mirage, Harrier and mig 19 break. Well I’ll be upset but I won’t quit DCS since it’s the only game in town. But now I’m worried about the longevity of the platform. Hopefully I’m reading too much in the tea leaves. 

Nothing will happen to DCS don't worry. 

[nessuno0505]

1 ora fa, NineLine ha scritto:

We will do refunds even if the worst possible scenario happens for the F-15E. So there is no risk waiting for it right now. It will be store credit.

 

44 minuti fa, PhantomHans ha scritto:

What about, for example, the AV8?  I bought it in January of this year and it's now, as of this moment, unsupported,  meaning it may break at any moment as the core changes.

 

What about all the other RB modules? What's the plan "if the worst possible scenario happens"? Can we have an official answer on this please?

[Hammer1-1]

1 hour ago, Oban said:

I had the IRIS F15E for FSX, it wasn't bad, also had the superbug.

I thought the same, as Razbam had a good Harrier GR7/9 for FSX, which would have been awesome to see in DCS, I never understood why it was never considered.
Most of the animations would be there, maybe textures would have needed to be updated to DCS standards.

Actually RB had a decent A7D/E/P as well..

Having flown both the GR7 and the AV8B, there were some serious flaws that I had brought to Razbams attention where it worked perfectly in one aircraft and not at all in the other. I brought this up to their attention and was promptly told it was Microsofts fault for a terrible engine. I really wish I could recover that thread...it was the first time out of many Ive heard Razbam blame someone other themselves.

Ive had a lot of Iris aircraft, a lot of which I lost when FlightSimStore went Tango Uniform..one of them was the IRIS A-10A Gold and a couple other modules I dont really remember...but I remember half the stuff in them didnt work like it should have, and this was around the time I started learning the DCS C..so that kind of spoiled it for me. They looked good though, but to me that was it. Only the radios and trim buttons worked. The razbam harriers armament page bugged out for me half the time too..that cheezed me the most.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

3 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Having flown both the GR7 and the AV8B, there were some serious flaws that I had brought to Razbams attention where it worked perfectly in one aircraft and not at all in the other. I brought this up to their attention and was promptly told it was Microsofts fault for a terrible engine. I really wish I could recover that thread...it was the first time out of many Ive heard Razbam blame someone other themselves.

 

 

This is, indeed, not their first kerfuffle. I'd like to see a shake up in management as a result.

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

That's good to know.

What about, for example, the AV8?  I bought it in January of this year and it's now, as of this moment, unsupported,  meaning it may break at any moment as the core changes.

Because it was fairly recent you could request it, but it might not be possible right now. Again our ultimate goal is continued support.

[lee1hy]

It's very surprising that there is still no solution after several months.

 

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, tribbin said:

So to summarize my position:

• If the module becomes incompatible with the then-current version that is used for multiplayer servers and I would get a refund, then I would purchase it.
• If the module remains compatible with the then-current version I would just keep it.

The responses on the ED Discord for my (imho quite reasonable) condition has been vague at best and been called 'bad-faith', 'against policy' (some screenshots) and even people specifically stating they can't wait for my refund to be denied.

Yet in this forum it now seems that the policy would be exactly what I was hoping and asking for.

Why wouldn't this policy propagate to Steam?
 

 

We do not control the Steam store, all refunds go through them. All you can do is try, but I cannot say if they will consider it. I'm sorry.

[lee1hy]

And yet ED continues to sell modules without any resolution. Who knows if there will be another RB incident?

[NineLine]

10 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

And yet ED continues to sell modules without any resolution. Who knows if there will be another RB incident?

What do you mean? You want us to stop selling all modules? If you mean just RB, then all I can tell you is once Lawyers get involved then the higher ups follow their guidance. I don't know if RB requested it what would happen (yes I know there were rumors they did but nothing from official channels to our management team). 

So for now we work to get things back on track.

 

44 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

 

 

What about all the other RB modules? What's the plan "if the worst possible scenario happens"? Can we have an official answer on this please?

We cannot other than we will do our very best to keep them working, but again there are a lot of variables and this thread is full of guesses and theories. As soon as we know what the path we are on, we will let everyone know. Sorry I don't have more I can share.

[Jester986]

Refunds for years old modules aren’t reasonable. And I’m sure there’s a you own nothing and are entitled to nothing clause in the EULA. Refunds for the 15 are a nice good faith gesture. But I’ve been flying and enjoying the others for a long time. Also an example of the good a payment model that shall not be named. If something goes wrong with a module you stop paying for it.