waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[WipeUout]

39 minutes ago, Fuchs said:

Galinette doesn't use the word "SDK"

Sorry but yes he does.  Maybe I'm wrong, I'm only a native french speaker after all... 

[freehand]

34 minutes ago, Neil Gardner said:

Yeah, I can understand that. I was so excited when I knew tge F15E was coming, I am just up the road from RAF Lakenheath which is an American air base equipped with - yes, you guessed it, F15E’s. I find it ti be a beautiful aircraft, alongside., for me anyway, the F16, and I can understand tge weight of disappointment. My guess, however, is that this will have to be resolved quickly as it is costing both sides allot of money. 

 

Off topic: I will be going to RAF Lakenheath this week or next I am 37 ish miles away.

[Horns]

4 minutes ago, freehand said:

Off topic: I will be going to RAF Lakenheath this week or next I am 37 ish miles away.

Is that in ED Miles? Sorry 

[falcon_120]

So moving goal posts?

First you use quotation for something is not literal or in my post,

and second you did say “Galinette does not use the word SDK”. He did.

What i did say is “RB have been or *have tried to use at some point* DCS core engine and SDK to develop/sell…” clearly a quite generic statement and very similar to “according to Galinette ED claims RB used the DCS SDK” based on available information this seems in fact the most plausible series of events; no drama added , given ED response and how this have unfold, certainly more credible to me that this “maybe razbam did only make a 3D model or a couple of lua script” non sense you propose instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Galinette]

 

This was posted in the original discussion forum (which isn't public by the way), ask your own sources for confirmation...

Edited June 11, 2024 by Kercheiz

[Beirut]

My Steam F-15E didn't authorize before I left for work and still doesn't. I hope this isn't a thing. 

[Nightdare]

5 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

If that's the case then hash it out and quit screwing over the consumers, please.  Razbam says they're not getting paid.  If that's accurate, then paying them should bring them immediately back to work and would not necessarily be an admission of guilt from ED or acceptance of any wrongdoing.  It would be a good faith gesture towards Razbam, and the community, and demonstrate a willingness to get DCS in general back on track. 

 

Your story is a contradiction

So, you think a company should reward bad behavior of their contractors

-not saying this is truly the case, but in your example:
Razbam screwed the pooch by abusing licensing/copyright outside contractual stipulations

For that, Eagle dynamics has to simply keep paying them and pretend it's just fine if ED doesn't police its IP, because that's 'good faith'

 

Do you have any idea how detrimental this is to IP, if you allow abuse to go unpunished?

It means the precedent is set that ANYONE can do that, you just pissed away any protection for your property "Out of good faith"

and that warm and fuzzy feeling will be all you have when everyone starts using your work

[MAXsenna]

My Steam F-15E didn't authorize before I left for work and still doesn't. I hope this isn't a thing. 

Bet it's your Anti-Virus solution. Have you excluded the DCS core folders in it? (Will even make DCS start faster if you haven't yet).

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Beirut]

20 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Bet it's your Anti-Virus solution. Have you excluded the DCS core folders in it? (Will even make DCS start faster if you haven't yet).

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

 

I will do just that and check, thank you.

[Blackeye]

1 hour ago, Nightdare said:

Razbam screwed the pooch by abusing licensing/copyright outside contractual stipulations For that, Eagle dynamics has to simply keep paying them and pretend it's just fine if ED doesn't police its IP, because that's 'good faith'

Do you have any idea how detrimental this is to IP, if you allow abuse to go unpunished?It means the precedent is set that ANYONE can do that, you just pissed away any protection for your property "Out of good faith"

Not going unpunished does not equal immediately stopping any and all payment whatsoever - there are other avenues to protect your IP. Of course those can take time and it might be harder to actually get money. On the other hand paying your supplier (at least part of the money) prevents the surprised Pikachu face when they then stop working...

 

[Pipe]

I see a lot of comlaints about RB going public, I agree but....

I  think it would be public by now anyway, and ED would be sweeping it under carpet, saying everthing is peachy which I totally disagree with.

At least we wouldnt have had to put up with the RB haters and their constant nonsense, they're way over the top and out of control 

Edited June 11, 2024 by Pipe

[PhantomHans]

1 hour ago, Nightdare said:

 

Your story is a contradiction

So, you think a company should reward bad behavior of their contractors

-not saying this is truly the case, but in your example:
Razbam screwed the pooch by abusing licensing/copyright outside contractual stipulations

For that, Eagle dynamics has to simply keep paying them and pretend it's just fine if ED doesn't police its IP, because that's 'good faith'

 

Do you have any idea how detrimental this is to IP, if you allow abuse to go unpunished?

It means the precedent is set that ANYONE can do that, you just pissed away any protection for your property "Out of good faith"

and that warm and fuzzy feeling will be all you have when everyone starts using your work

Well, ED is still selling Razbam products.  They just aren't paying Razbam for those sales.

What do we call that again?  Hmm...

 

Paying Razbam for selling their stuff doesn't mean that you allow the abuse to go unpunished.  ED could sue the pants off them for whatever they did while continuing to pay them what they are owed.  You do realize that right?  If ED can keep selling Razbams intellectual property, ED can keep paying them for it.  Otherwise, you're using IP theft to justify IP theft.

 

[Ignition]

As I said it before, this problem was for a military simulation. We don't have anything to do with it but ED doesn't pay Razbam and then Razbam doesn't update their modules and WE (the customers) are having problems in a game which nothing has to do with the military simulation.

So who's is keeping the the customers as hostages in the end? ED refunds only the F-15E for store credit so they don't lose the money, they won't pay Razbam anyway and Razbam won't update the modules for free.

I just wanted to play with the F-15E, this is sad.

[Oban]

10 minutes ago, Ignition said:

As I said it before, this problem was for a military simulation. We don't have anything to do with it but ED doesn't pay Razbam and then Razbam doesn't update their modules and WE (the customers) are having problems in a game which nothing has to do with the military simulation.

So who's is keeping the the customers as hostages in the end? ED refunds only the F-15E for store credit so they don't lose the money, they won't pay Razbam anyway and Razbam won't update the modules for free.

I just wanted to play with the F-15E, this is sad.

There's nothing stopping you from flying the F15E, it still works same as it did for the past 2 months, I flew it for 4 hours today on and off.

[Mizzy]

1 hour ago, Ignition said:

As I said it before, this problem was for a military simulation. We don't have anything to do with it but ED doesn't pay Razbam and then Razbam doesn't update their modules and WE (the customers) are having problems in a game which nothing has to do with the military simulation.

So who's is keeping the the customers as hostages in the end?

Why don't you point the finger at Razbam, they are the ones using IP without permission and therefore without payment !!

[Hammer1-1]

2 hours ago, Ignition said:

As I said it before, this problem was for a military simulation. We don't have anything to do with it but ED doesn't pay Razbam and then Razbam doesn't update their modules and WE (the customers) are having problems in a game which nothing has to do with the military simulation.

So who's is keeping the the customers as hostages in the end? ED refunds only the F-15E for store credit so they don't lose the money, they won't pay Razbam anyway and Razbam won't update the modules for free.

I just wanted to play with the F-15E, this is sad.

the obvious just does not compute. Maybe if Razbam hadnt broken the contract -QUITE OPENLY AAMOF-, then none of this would have been necessary. This isnt a chicken or egg riddle.

[Pipe]

27 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

the obvious just does not compute. Maybe if Razbam hadnt broken the contract -QUITE OPENLY AAMOF-, then none of this would have been necessary. This isnt a chicken or egg riddle.

Its obvious that ED chose this path amongst perhaps many options. Maybe they didnt think of this senario but i doubt that.

If they were still making payments, then for sure we would not know anything about any issues between the two.

I submit that ED doesnt care about their customers, just money, or they would have changed course on this action once it went sideways. Thus securing customer trust and keep RB working. Which they should have done from the beginning.

And yes RB obviously has plenty of blame in this as well, I do get it

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Pipe

[Hammer1-1]

Razbam violates the contract, somehow its EDs fault. Blows my mind.

[Shibbyland]

For those of you who have requested a refund of the F-15, how long did it take to hear back about it?

I put in for a refund a week ago and haven't even had an acknowledgment of my request yet.

[Nightdare]

3 hours ago, Blackeye said:

Not going unpunished does not equal immediately stopping any and all payment whatsoever - there are other avenues to protect your IP. Of course those can take time and it might be harder to actually get money.

 

We don't know when this ball started rolling, could be ED wrote a C&D many months ago already and are way past that point

 

3 hours ago, Blackeye said:

On the other hand paying your supplier (at least part of the money) prevents the surprised Pikachu face when they then stop working...

 

Who says ED is surprised? the only surprised people I see, seem to be those that don't understand what a dispute may entail

I for one am not surprised RB stopped work for not getting paid, but if they are breaching contract, I'm also not surprised ED is withholding payment and I'm pretty sure ED would know that this could/would halt cooperation

I sincerely doubt ED is as naïve as some of the folks in this thread

 

3 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

Well, ED is still selling Razbam products.  They just aren't paying Razbam for those sales.

What do we call that again?  Hmm...

 

If you hire me and you find out I'm using/selling your stuff for/to others without permission, what do YOU call that?

 

3 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

Paying Razbam for selling their stuff doesn't mean that you allow the abuse to go unpunished.  ED could sue the pants off them for whatever they did while continuing to pay them what they are owed.  You do realize that right?

 

You realize this situation may hold that RB now owes money to ED,... so you don't mind losing money to RB while also paying them?

 

3 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

If ED can keep selling Razbams intellectual property, ED can keep paying them for it.  Otherwise, you're using IP theft to justify IP theft.

 

No, I'm withholding payment until I get compensated and my IP is guaranteed safety by the party abusing it, if they are of the opinion they are not in the wrong, they can try to prove it in court

 

 

The company I work for actually had a similar situation, where a supplier used our molds and granulate to sell to another party, as show of force, we simply didn't pay the open invoices (in the several  $100.000s)

Instead of a year(s) long legal battle, within a few months, we got our molds back, and compensated the loss of material and time together with a fine for reallocating production, backorders and IP theft with the open invoices

We had to go to court with the party that hired our supplier to illegally copy our products, because we did not have any means to pressure them otherwise, that took 2 years (even though it was an open and shut case)

 

[wadman]

Did the F15E get pulled? I am now getting this error on sim startup:

null

 

I just started getting this message today and I restarted sim a few times, but this is a persistent message and the F-15 is NOT showing up for me in DCS now. All other modules are fine.

WTF????

[Pipe]

2 minutes ago, wadman said:

Did the F15E get pulled? I am now getting this error on sim startup:

null

 

I just started getting this message today and I restarted sim a few times, but this is a persistent message and the F-15 is NOT showing up for me in DCS now. All other modules are fine.

WTF????

its your AV software, has been what others are reporting

[Oban]

16 minutes ago, wadman said:

Did the F15E get pulled? I am now getting this error on sim startup:

null

 

I just started getting this message today and I restarted sim a few times, but this is a persistent message and the F-15 is NOT showing up for me in DCS now. All other modules are fine.

WTF????

Works fine for me... started it for a quick thrash through the mountains on the low level Caucus map 30 mins ago

[NineLine]

42 minutes ago, Shibbyland said:

For those of you who have requested a refund of the F-15, how long did it take to hear back about it?

I put in for a refund a week ago and haven't even had an acknowledgment of my request yet.

There is quite a backlog of refunds currently, if you DM me your ticket number I can ask tomorrow. Thanks

[Hammer1-1]

21 minutes ago, wadman said:

Did the F15E get pulled? I am now getting this error on sim startup:

null

 

I just started getting this message today and I restarted sim a few times, but this is a persistent message and the F-15 is NOT showing up for me in DCS now. All other modules are fine.

WTF????

white list or exclude DCS as a whole in your a/v suite. all razbam DRM stuff looks like its going to hit positive with any a/v suite.