waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[felixx75]

3 minutes ago, Viper33 said:

Since it does not seem like neither ED nor Razbam are going to be able to fulfill their part of the contract to customers when it comes to finishing and patching the F-15E within a foreseeable timeframe I think it is safe to request refunds for said product. The amount of bs this community had to put up with ED over the years is astonishing and any good will that has been built up again over the years is now gone. This truly has to be the icing on the cake. The F-15E was a breath of fresh air in DCS and you could tell how passionate said developers were about it - especially things like radar model, sounds and art-details put any ED module to shame. It was what got me back into and excited for this sim once again. Now that this module has been killed off and has no future anymore (and I wish I was naive enough to believe otherwise) I personally don't see myself investing into this platform any longer and putting up with even more crap and excuses from ED (see the painful Viper and Hornet development). I am sure Steam will be able to issue refunds given this piece of evidence. 

Good riddance!

Please also tell me the next lottery numbers, as you can clearly predict the near future... 

[draconus]

13 hours ago, NineLine said:

It is our commitment that no matter what happens we will do our best to make sure these continue to work into the future.

Most important message and very assuring, thx, but does it also apply to F-15E?

I find it lacking that you don't even mention the workaround for the radar bug. While incovenient it's very quick and easy to do. Some users seem not to know this yet. They can decide if that's too much to continue to enjoy the module.

[Beirut]

9 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

I don’t think this thread should even be left open for comments. It should be locked and used only for official updates. 

 

You commented.

 

Seems others should be allowed to comment as well. 

[Slippa]

Cheers for the summary NineLine. Let’s hope for the best.

It’s gutting to read the effect some of this is having. I don’t think it’s quite time to give up on the RB modules though, including the F-15.

If people just consider the amount of time and passion put into building these modules maybe they’d feel a bit more optimistic instead of feeling all is lost already. RB probably have plenty of bits still to add to their F-15? Not that we’re gonna see em all the while this carries on. I hope we do someday but I’m sure the last thing they’d want is to have done all that work and see it all binned.

It doesn’t seem to be anything with malicious intent that borked the radar. Good of Skate to try and explain how these things can work, despite some pushing on with the what-ifs anyway.

Last time I tried I could still fly the F-15. Last night I had a bit of rare time in my Harrier. If and when I can’t use em I’ll be the first to complain but for now, they’re usable. It’s far from ideal but it’s not time to be writing em off just yet.

See you all in 90 pages .

 

 

[MAXsenna]

Once you have a store credit you will see it on your account like this under internal account.

Aha! So if you have and use in store credit, you will actually get Miles on relevant purchases?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Slippa]

13 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

get Miles

 

Ooh, you just jogged my memory, I’ve got some banked and unused. I’m going shopping, well done Max .

[shagrat]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb corvey:

Implementing a time bomb in the radar system code

You sure have analyzed the source code and identified the "time bomb", so you can definitely rule out a simple issue with the signing certificate for the .dll?!

Or any other possibility?

...or are you making assumptions to present them as fact?

This is part of why this is blowing up and rumors overshadow any reasonable information.

[A2Moonclaw]

15 hours ago, NineLine said:

Refunds

While at first, we were maintaining our normal refund rules, we decided to bend a little for those who were frustrated with the issues and how they affected an Early Access Product. We have been giving a store credit for the value of the F-15E when you purchased it. You may open a ticket here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/ for a refund, but we ask for patience as it may take up to 7-10 business days to process your refund. 

Other modules will not be refunded at this time, all of these are out of Early Access and remain working. It is our commitment that no matter what happens we will do our best to make sure these continue to work into the future. We understand those of you who remember losing the Hawk, this is not something we intend to do again.

Steam refunds are based on the play time of the core game, not the individual module. It is their policy and they handle the refunds. As we understand it, no refunds have been accepted by Valve. All modules continue to work, aside from the current radar issues with the F-15E which we hope will be addressed sooner than later. South Atlantic continues to be updated and as I stated above, the other older modules we plan to make sure they continue to work into the foreseeable future. 

How do refunds work with the gifting system? Does the gifter or the recipient file the ticket for the refund? 

[SlipHavoc]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

You commented.

 

Seems others should be allowed to comment as well. 

Zero useful information has or will come from comments by anyone other than ED or Razbam employees.  All threads like this do is allow a place for people to work themselves into a strange kind of mental illness about a situation they have virtually no knowledge about or control over.  Therefore I also agree that this thread should be locked.

[KungFu]

With all the public information available, both ED and RAZBAM did not handle this situation appropriately.  This seems to have been brewing for quite some time and was not a surprise moment.  That being said, ED is the IP holder and the company that sells the IP should have got out in front of it, instead it got to a point where I think bridges have been burned and any sense of "normalcy" even with a resolution will not be possible .  ED as the owners of the IP, should have acted much sooner.    Now in order for RAZBAM to have gone to the lengths they did, the status of relationship had to have been very bad.   They want to make great products and of course make money.  

The thing is, trust has been broken with both entities and I just don't see how that trust customers have in the relationship  between ED and RAZBAM can be restored   

I own 3 RAZBAM modules and I fly only RAZBAM modules when it comes to jet aircraft.   The F15E was my absolute favorite, I felt at home in it even in an EA state.   Now, tbh I don't see any resolution that is beneficial to customers is possible.

So, to say something that is going to be unpopular but is the truth....ED as the owner of the IP, it is your responsibility to make this right, your responsibility to regain the trust.   That's the way it works in business.  I work for a very large software company, and we use several licensed 3rd party tools in our product.   If for any reason one of those tools breaks, we have to make it right to our customers working with the 3rd party.  The buck stops with my company....ED the buck stops with you.

 

Edited June 18, 2024 by KungFu

[Sinclair]

Buyers are not only legally entitled to a real money refund, but also to a compensation for the delay in delivering a product for which ED promised a lot and now they are holding hostage.

No sooner or later, now. And stop selling it. That’s just plain fraud.

We paid good money for the module, and ED must fulfill their part on the contract.

Times like this are where the trust is really build or lost forever.

Edited June 18, 2024 by Sinclair

[shagrat]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb KungFu:

That being said, ED is the IP holder and the company that sells the IP should have got out in front of it

They couldn't, because in the industry the first thing even before drafting the first contract document, is usually signing a mutual NDA.

[KungFu]

9 minutes ago, shagrat said:

They couldn't, because in the industry the first thing even before drafting the first contract document, is usually signing a mutual NDA.

Getting out in front of it doesn't mean you have to do it publicly.  NDA wouldn't have prevented that.

[Beirut]

21 minutes ago, SlipHavoc said:

Zero useful information has or will come from comments by anyone other than ED or Razbam employees.  All threads like this do is allow a place for people to work themselves into a strange kind of mental illness about a situation they have virtually no knowledge about or control over.  Therefore I also agree that this thread should be locked.

 

But you're here reading it and commenting.

 

Shouldn't everyone be allowed to read it and comment? 

[SlipHavoc]

Just now, Beirut said:

 

But you're here reading it and commenting.

 

Shouldn't everyone be allowed to read it and comment? 

Everyone should be allowed to read it, no one should be allowed to comment, including me and you.

[shagrat]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Sinclair:

Buyers are not only legally entitled to a real money refund, but also to a compensation for the delay in delivering a product(...)

 

First you should read the EULA before giving (wrong) legal advise.

I also recommend to add an "I am not a lawyer, this should not be taken as legal advise" disclaimer, in case you are based in a country where negligence may be a civil law tort that could get you in trouble.

I am not a lawyer, so this isn't legal advise.

vor 6 Minuten schrieb KungFu:

Getting out in front of it doesn't mean you have to do it publicly.  NDA wouldn't have prevented that.

Fair enough. But I think it would have been best for all involved if this has been kept between the involved parties. But that's just me.

[Beirut]

2 minutes ago, SlipHavoc said:

Everyone should be allowed to read it, no one should be allowed to comment, including me and you.

 

Perhaps if you set the example and stopped commenting others would as well. 

 

Try it for a few days and see what happens. 

 

 

.

Edited June 18, 2024 by Beirut

[Mizzy]

22 minutes ago, Sinclair said:

Buyers are not only legally entitled to a real money refund, but also to a compensation for the delay in delivering a product for which ED promised a lot and now they are holding hostage.

No sooner or later, now. And stop selling it. That’s just plain fraud.

We paid good money for the module, and ED must fulfill their part on the contract.

Times like this are where the trust is really build or lost forever.

 

So Razbam don't have to fulfill their part of the Contract? A bit one sided isn't it?

2 hours ago, Viper33 said:

Since it does not seem like neither ED nor Razbam are going to be able to fulfill their part of the contract to customers when it comes to finishing and patching the F-15E within a foreseeable timeframe I think it is safe to request refunds for said product. The amount of bs this community had to put up with ED over the years is astonishing and any good will that has been built up again over the years is now gone. This truly has to be the icing on the cake. The F-15E was a breath of fresh air in DCS and you could tell how passionate said developers were about it - especially things like radar model, sounds and art-details put any ED module to shame. It was what got me back into and excited for this sim once again. Now that this module has been killed off and has no future anymore (and I wish I was naive enough to believe otherwise) I personally don't see myself investing into this platform any longer and putting up with even more crap and excuses from ED (see the painful Viper and Hornet development). I am sure Steam will be able to issue refunds given this piece of evidence. 

Good riddance!

Bye

[SlipHavoc]

2 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

Perhaps if you set the example and stopped commenting others would as well. 

 

Try it for a few days and see what happens. 

 

 

.

 

Unfortunately, that's not going to work.  The thread should be locked so no one can comment.

[Beirut]

Just now, SlipHavoc said:

Unfortunately, that's not going to work.  The thread should be locked so no one can comment.

 

For someone who doesn't want others to comment, you sure do comment a lot. 

 

May I assume you will continue to comment while telling others they should not be allowed to? 

[SlipHavoc]

1 minute ago, Beirut said:

 

For someone who doesn't want others to comment, you sure do comment a lot. 

 

May I assume you will continue to comment while telling others they should not be allowed to? 

Yes, you may assume that.

[BigBorner]

Shock -> Denial -> Anger -> Bargaining -> Depression -> Testing -> Acceptance 

I think were in between Anger and Bargaining now. 

Itll take a few more pages and weeks to get to Acceptance. 

[Strikeman]

14 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

If anything it's a D.M.S., when compiling they likely set a date 6 months or so in the future, and update the said date every time they compile a new build.

If something happens and they no longer compile builds, the date exceeds the date in the compiled software and things are disabled.

Not sure what that means, what is DMS? Do you mean DRM?

I don't think this has anything todo with compiling, if this was working at one point then obviously it was compiled fine. This seems more like a runtime issue as it broke at a specific time. If you were referring to DRM, then that probably makes more sense, as it would allow a publisher to control their code when deployed.

Just my 2 cents, as no-one has access to the source besides the publisher, I doubt we will know what the real issue was.

[Beirut]

Just now, SlipHavoc said:

Yes, you may assume that.

 

Interesting.

 

Just FYI, you do realize that you have the choice of whether to read this thread or not? You have it within you to not read it or comment in it. That's something you can manage.

 

If, however, you are under duress and being forced to read and comment in this thread, let us know and we will come to your aid. We are a friendly DCS community, after all. 

[SlipHavoc]

2 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

Interesting.

 

Just FYI, you do realize that you have the choice of whether to read this thread or not? You have it within you to not read it or comment in it. That's something you can manage.

 

If, however, you are under duress and being forced to read and comment in this thread, let us know and we will come to your aid. We are a friendly DCS community, after all. 

Of course I realize all that.  That doesn't change my opinion that this thread should be locked.