waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mizzy]

Who mentioned 'Heatblur' in their official public announcements about this dispute (first post in this thread) and by doing so, made the dispute between ED and Razbam public? Has 'Heatblur made any official announcement about their involvement in the dispute between ED and Razbam? 

I am only interested in 'official' announcements and not discord, reddit gossip etc. Can anyone guide me to any further developments of the dispute between ED and Razbam that are not contained in the first post of this thread? 

I am Just asking and no names mentioned because I want to know the facts, not the hearsay. Please no stupid posts asking me for a definition of 'hearsay' !

Mizzy

[scommander2]

I totally agree that HB should not be part of this conversation regardless of what are stories related to HB.  This thread is about ED and RB and it is where we should focus on.

[HWasp]

15 hours ago, Nightdare said:

Companies do, responding to rumors isn't such a good strategy as it may seem in your head, you just made yourself another party in a dispute with 2 others, based on libel from an unknown source

You also think HeatBlur issuing a denial would shut the detractors up? They are already preaching gospel from hearsay and biased sources, to them, this would be even more proof HB would just be in cahoots with ED to save their own skin

We were not talking about random rumors, we were talking about a specific leaked conversation with names. If that was fabricated, it would be basic common sense for the person involved to declare that conversation as fake.

The site it was published on has 8k+ members, so chances are, that tens of thousands of people read that thing. 

Would you be ok with that, if it was indeed fabricated fake with your name in it in that position? I certainly would not be ok with that. 

On the other hand, if it's legit, confirming it officially would still be a hostile step against ED, so I can totally understand the silence in that case.

 

 

[SkateZilla]

45 minutes ago, HWasp said:

We were not talking about random rumors, we were talking about a specific leaked conversation with names. If that was fabricated, it would be basic common sense for the person involved to declare that conversation as fake.

The site it was published on has 8k+ members, so chances are, that tens of thousands of people read that thing. 

Would you be ok with that, if it was indeed fabricated fake with your name in it in that position? I certainly would not be ok with that. 

On the other hand, if it's legit, confirming it officially would still be a hostile step against ED, so I can totally understand the silence in that case.

 

 

The person involved already declared it authentic and released more of the redacted sections of said conversation.

That being said, a Skype conversation between 2 individuals, is pretty much just as it appears, a private conversation between two individuals. not Parties, Not Companies, Not businesses. Releasing the conversation is a Firestarter tactic, and maybe it offers a smidge of insight, but either way it neither confirms nor deny's any of the rumors floating around in the reddit-sphere.

Is it a Coincidence that whenever this dispute starts to fade from public spotlight for something else, that magically a chat, a message, a reddit post from someone is highlighted and boom, the pitchforks all come back out in response to the "breaking news".

I often have teams calls/chats with other developers in my field about specific subjects, it does not mean that myself or my company is endorsing or co-signing on anything the other person does as a result of things discussed in that conversation.

 

Edited August 20, 2024 by SkateZilla

[HWasp]

38 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

The person involved already declared it authentic and released more of the redacted sections of said conversation.

That being said, a Skype conversation between 2 individuals, is pretty much just as it appears, a private conversation between two individuals. not Parties, Not Companies, Not businesses. Releasing the conversation is a Firestarter tactic, and maybe it offers a smidge of insight, but either way it neither confirms nor deny's any of the rumors floating around in the reddit-sphere.

Is it a Coincidence that whenever this dispute starts to fade from public spotlight for something else, that magically a chat, a message, a reddit post from someone is highlighted and boom, the pitchforks all come back out in response to the "breaking news".

I often have teams calls/chats with other developers in my field about specific subjects, it does not mean that myself or my company is endorsing or co-signing on anything the other person does as a result of things discussed in that conversation.

 

 

Thanks.

Even though it's just a private conversation, it paints a very ugly picture. Just the info in itself, that this is not a one time incident, but something that has occured before and was close to reach this point, reduces my trust to zero.

[Nightdare]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

The person involved already declared it authentic and released more of the redacted sections of said conversation.

 

Who is the person involved?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, HWasp said:

Thanks.

Even though it's just a private conversation, it paints a very ugly picture. Just the info in itself, that this is not a one time incident, but something that has occured before and was close to reach this point, reduces my trust to zero.

What has occurred before?  A payment dispute between ED and a contractor?  Newsflash, virtually every business that regularly deals with contractors/licensees/vendors has payment disputes.  There are probably several others we don't know about too.  And each of those contractors probably has their own separate vendor payment disputes that you don't know about.  The ISP you are connecting through probably has thousands of such disputes at any given time.  

It is a completely routine part of doing business.  Contractor believes it is entitled to $X, company believes that contractor is entitled to $Y (or that the conditions for the payment of $X have not yet been met). Without knowing the facts of each situation, it is impossible for us to tell whether the two event have anything to do with each other let alone who is right.

[felixx75]

And to the next round... 

Edited August 20, 2024 by felixx75

[HWasp]

2 hours ago, wombat778 said:

What has occurred before?  A payment dispute between ED and a contractor?  Newsflash, virtually every business that regularly deals with contractors/licensees/vendors has payment disputes.  There are probably several others we don't know about too.  And each of those contractors probably has their own separate vendor payment disputes that you don't know about.  The ISP you are connecting through probably has thousands of such disputes at any given time.  

It is a completely routine part of doing business.  Contractor believes it is entitled to $X, company believes that contractor is entitled to $Y (or that the conditions for the payment of $X have not yet been met). Without knowing the facts of each situation, it is impossible for us to tell whether the two event have anything to do with each other let alone who is right.

Did you actually read that thing, we were talking about?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, HWasp said:

Did you actually read that thing, we were talking about?

Yes, of course.  I see statements that there was a payment issue along with speculation and innuendo about the cause of the payment issue.  But precious few facts.

EDIT: And to be clear, when I say facts, I mean things like:

1. With respect to each party, copies of the applicable contracts (license agreements, services agreements, etc.)
2. List of all deliverables, dates and times when delivered, and the contractual provisions pursuant to which they were delivered
3. List of all payments received, including amount and date/time, along with the contractual provisions pursuant to which received
4. copies of all correspondence (including dates and times) between the applicable party and ED, particularly those relating to acceptance of deliverables and payment
5. summaries of all oral discussions between the party and ED regarding the above
6. copies of all agreements entered into with third parties related to ED IP
7. copies of any formal notices under the contract that have been delivered, such as payment demands, IP breach notices, or other demand letters
8. etc.

As a lawyer, those are the kinds of information I would need to even begin to sort out who is right and who isn't. Seriously, if a client came to me and said "I did some work, delivered some code, and now the other side won't pay me -- do I have a case?" my answer would be "it depends.  I need to see a lot more information [like the documents above] before I can tell you."

Edited August 20, 2024 by wombat778

[JimBo*]

3 hours ago, felixx75 said:

And to the next round... 

 

[=DROOPY=]

So...much...spinning here....

[Nightdare]

By the time we're done, we'll know who was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll

 

[Mizzy]

On 8/19/2024 at 4:20 PM, HWasp said:

I don't think, that everybody else thinks like that though. 

'everybody else' is not involved in this, it's just our own individual opinions being expressed. 

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by Mizzy

[Mad Dog 762]

My concern is that the longer this stretches out, the less a positive outcome for us, the consumers.  People have to survive.  Razbam will fold up, the employees will find other jobs, and the modules will be left in limbo, maybe with occassional bug fixes by ED, but I can't imagine they will be fully supported.  No one who knows whats going on is going to want to buy them, and that means no financial incentive for ED to put any effort into them.  I am afraid this may have already gone beyond the point of no return, if it hasn't it soon will.  If it can still be resolved, the absolute sooner the better.  

 

MD

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

4 hours ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

My concern is that the longer this stretches out, the less a positive outcome for us, the consumers.  People have to survive.  Razbam will fold up, the employees will find other jobs, and the modules will be left in limbo, maybe with occassional bug fixes by ED, but I can't imagine they will be fully supported.  No one who knows whats going on is going to want to buy them, and that means no financial incentive for ED to put any effort into them.  I am afraid this may have already gone beyond the point of no return, if it hasn't it soon will.  If it can still be resolved, the absolute sooner the better.  

 

MD

 

That is the goal.

Employees leaving is to be, honestly, expected. If RB does not have contingencies to bring new hires up to speed, then that's an extreme short sight and I can't imagine they'd do that.

[Eviscerador]

3 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

That is the goal.

Employees leaving is to be, honestly, expected. If RB does not have contingencies to bring new hires up to speed, then that's an extreme short sight and I can't imagine they'd do that.

Most Razbam Devs have stated that if the time comes they are happy to return to their child and finish it. Most of them were freelancers hired per project, as it is normal in this market.

Of course they first must be paid for their previous work.

When will that happen? A legal procedure can take years if no party agrees to a friendly agreement. Whatever happens both parties are pretty screwed, specially if more <profanity> keeps hitting the fan and spreads out of the forums/Reddit/discord.

[nessuno0505]

I agree, but Razbam being more screwed than ED, since DCS keeps going with other modules and 3rd party developers. The more modules will arrive in the next months / years, the less the absence of Razbam's will be relevant. Within 3 years we will be occupied to fly the hercules, the eurofighter or maybe the intruder (who knows) and everybody will no longer care about the strike eagle doom, be it a persistently unfinished module or a deprecated one.

Edited August 21, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Esac_mirmidon]

I will care.

[LordOrion]

Is there a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel?

[Mainstay]

19 hours ago, Nightdare said:

By the time we're done, we'll know who was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll

 

lol

[TKhaos]

4 hours ago, LordOrion said:

Is there a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel?

That will be one of the conspiracy theorists shining their torch round in the dark looking for more unsubstantiated clues

Edited August 21, 2024 by TKhaos

[plott1964]

6 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

That will be one of the conspiracy theorists shining their touch round in the dark looking for more unsubstantiated clues

"shining their touch"? LOL!

[TKhaos]

2 minutes ago, plott1964 said:

"shining their touch"? LOL!

Yeah corrected it now, went to move my car mid sentence and lost track

[Hog_driver]

7 hours ago, LordOrion said:

Is there a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel?

Hope it's not an incoming train!