waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Pipe]

On 4/5/2025 at 6:51 AM, some1 said:

Why would they, and where? Razbam probably does not even have the resources to sue a Swiss company across from another continent. ED has little incentive to do so, they already have all the cards, cashing in all the money from Razbam sales for over a year. They can prolong the current situation indefinitely.

The only thing ED is loosing is a bit of consumer trust and support. Not a big deal when there is little competition on the market.

This right here is the issue

[Horns]

19 hours ago, Aapje said:

If they cannot (fully) agree, then you'd expect a court case to sort things out.

Depending on where it would be heard, one can wait longer than a year just to get a court date. 

[rob10]

25 minutes ago, Horns said:

Depending on where it would be heard, one can wait longer than a year just to get a court date. 

And to add to this, the timer for that year starts AFTER they decide to go the legal route.  Which would probably be at least 6 months to a year into the dispute, so even if you backdate from when it became public to when it actually started, it would be doubtful it's even hit the initial stages of any legal proceedings yet.

Edited April 6 by rob10

[WipeUout]

One year into this.

You (ED and RZ) should have a hard look at the ''legal'' adviced being given.  Those lawyers are racking up money and the only party profiting from this.  Get the two CEOs in a room with a mediator and don't let them out until it is solved.  

Edited April 7 by WipeUout
Typo

[fghidalg]

Both parties should consider that, in addition to legal issues, a little goodwill and affection toward their clients is also needed to resolve this. From my perspective, I don't see that. I feel like this is hopeless and I feel let down. The passion on both sides is missing.

[Mike Force Team]

Maybe we need to create a GoFundMe to help pay down what is owed to Razbam. 

[Hammer1-1]

39 minutes ago, fghidalg said:

Both parties should consider that, in addition to legal issues, a little goodwill and affection toward their clients is also needed to resolve this. From my perspective, I don't see that. I feel like this is hopeless and I feel let down. The passion on both sides is missing.

Oh I dunno, ED is allowing store credits if you no longer have the patience to see this resolved. Thats something more than what Razbam has done over the last year. I hold no more faith in them, so I have my peace of mind on that issue back at least. For sure Im not buying it again until Razbam takes it out of EA this time...if there IS a next time.

39 minutes ago, Mike Force Team said:

Maybe we need to create a GoFundMe to help pay down what is owed to Razbam. 

No. No more anything until this issue is resolved. Think we've paid enough.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

 

45 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Oh I dunno, ED is allowing store credits if you no longer have the patience to see this resolved. Thats something more than what Razbam has done over the last year. I hold no more faith in them, so I have my peace of mind on that issue back at least. For sure Im not buying it again until Razbam takes it out of EA this time...if there IS a next time.

No. No more anything until this issue is resolved. Think we've paid enough.

This.

I was only slightly annoyed when the MiG-19S didn't materialize despite it being promised and then them back pedaling on that promise. But, to give them more money to support existing products they already should be? No. I don't care who the developer is, they'd better have a very good reason for asking for more money.

[Davee]

2 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

Maybe we need to create a GoFundMe to help pay down what is owed to Razbam. 

So you want us to pay for the misuse of intellectual property?   Really??

[Horns]

3 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

Maybe we need to create a GoFundMe to help pay down what is owed to Razbam. 

Razbam can go fund themselves.

[Tank50us]

4 hours ago, Davee said:

So you want us to pay for the misuse of intellectual property?   Really??

Bingo. As people, including myself have stated, this is an issue of Razbams making. They started this when they tried to illegally use the DCS IP, and got caught. If they would own up to the fiasco, and agree to EDs future terms, this would end today. But, RZ apparently has an ego the size of Jupiter, and won't just let ED 'win'.

Honestly a better use of a GFM campaign would be to buy the licenses and Source Code off of Razbam and hand them to ED to keep hold of.

[some1]

7 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Oh I dunno, ED is allowing store credits if you no longer have the patience to see this resolved. Thats something more than what Razbam has done over the last year.

Only for the Eagle. And it does not cost them anything to do so (other than support time), they already have that money.

If anything, it frees the money that was put aside for Razbam, to be used by ED freely.

[draconus]

17 minutes ago, some1 said:

Only for the Eagle. And it does not cost them anything to do so (other than support time), they already have that money.

They still lose the money by giving the credit away - when users buy the modules using the credit while they would pay money otherwise.

[Hawks5]

3 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Bingo. As people, including myself have stated, this is an issue of Razbams making. They started this when they tried to illegally use the DCS IP, and got caught. If they would own up to the fiasco, and agree to EDs future terms, this would end today. But, RZ apparently has an ego the size of Jupiter, and won't just let ED 'win'.

Honestly a better use of a GFM campaign would be to buy the licenses and Source Code off of Razbam and hand them to ED to keep hold of.

Excuse me, but you'll have to show where this illegal use of IP has been proven.

[Cab]

3 minutes ago, Hawks5 said:

Excuse me, but you'll have to show where this illegal use of IP has been proven.

True enough. "Allegedly" is appropriate here.

But it is difficult to believe ED would be taking this hard line unless they felt they had proof.

[BIGNEWY]

18 minutes ago, Hawks5 said:

Excuse me, but you'll have to show where this illegal use of IP has been proven.

I am sorry the public were brought into this, it has certainly created bad feeling and damaged PR, but this isn't a court room, its a forum thread, and the dispute is between ED and RAZBAM. It is a private matter and the statement we made after RAZBAM went public will likely be the only one until the dispute is resolved. 

We all hope for a good outcome. 

thank you 

[Tank50us]

10 minutes ago, Hawks5 said:

Excuse me, but you'll have to show where this illegal use of IP has been proven.

Allegedly (though my comes from an ED Tester), RB tried to sell a simulator to an Air Force. I can't remember which one off hand, but I know it was for the Super Tucano, which they were also developing for us (the player base). This sale would've cut ED out, and RB would've gotten 100% of the proceeds not going to the Super Tucano's OEM. The sales of the module to us would've proceeded as normal, but ED would've effectively lost millions of dollars rightfully theirs for the use of the IP.

When ED found out, and this is my speculation, they demanded a renegotiation of the contract and froze funds transfers until that renegotiation took place. Clearly RB refused this, and hasn't been paid as a result due to the breach of contract. And instead of quietly agreeing to new terms or negotiating, RZ went public in order to steer public opinion in their favor. And as you can see, many are on their side, mostly because ED doesn't want to talk about what's going on behind closed doors (and likely legally advised not to to the degree needed to get the public on their side).

Ergo, since the only 'side' of the story most have heard is RBs.... many buy what RB's been selling, and have also spun up some ludicrous allegations.

The main piece of evidence to follow though: Notice how none of the other devs are backing RB here. The few who've said anything have come out on EDs side as well. So it's quiet telling that RB did something wrong.

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Tank50us said:

Allegedly (though my comes from an ED Tester), RB tried to sell a simulator to an Air Force. I can't remember which one off hand, but I know it was for the Super Tucano, which they were also developing for us (the player base). This sale would've cut ED out, and RB would've gotten 100% of the proceeds not going to the Super Tucano's OEM. The sales of the module to us would've proceeded as normal, but ED would've effectively lost millions of dollars rightfully theirs for the use of the IP.

When ED found out, and this is my speculation, they demanded a renegotiation of the contract and froze funds transfers until that renegotiation took place. Clearly RB refused this, and hasn't been paid as a result due to the breach of contract. And instead of quietly agreeing to new terms or negotiating, RZ went public in order to steer public opinion in their favor. And as you can see, many are on their side, mostly because ED doesn't want to talk about what's going on behind closed doors (and likely legally advised not to to the degree needed to get the public on their side).

Ergo, since the only 'side' of the story most have heard is RBs.... many buy what RB's been selling, and have also spun up some ludicrous allegations.

The main piece of evidence to follow though: Notice how none of the other devs are backing RB here. The few who've said anything have come out on EDs side as well. So it's quiet telling that RB did something wrong.

There is a lot of conjecture out there and misinformation, this of course has created lots of speculation. But please note, ED testers are volunteers and are not privy to any more information than any of you. 

thank you 

 

[some1]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

They still lose the money by giving the credit away - when users buy the modules using the credit while they would pay money otherwise.

That's more of an opportunity cost than straight money loss. Maybe those users won't pay money for the next product, maybe they spend credit on something they would not purchase otherwise.

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, some1 said:

That's more of an opportunity cost than straight money loss. Maybe those users won't pay money for the next product, maybe they spend credit on something they would not purchase otherwise.

I suspect most will use the credit at first opportunity and would also buy the same product sooner or later with money.

[draconus]

It's not going the right direction. Still available on Steam.

Edited April 7 by draconus

[BIGNEWY]

8 minutes ago, draconus said:

It's not going the right direction. Still available on Steam.

Steam takes a little longer to action requests like this. They are being removed from Steam also.

[FlyHack]

10 минут назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

After receiving an official request by RAZBAM to remove products from sale we have done so.

True.

11 минут назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

All products will be fully supported by DCS and will continue to operate.

Not true.

Teamwork is evident.

[alejandr0]

11 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

Maybe we need to create a GoFundMe to help pay down what is owed to Razbam. 

This won't solve the problem.

9 hours ago, Davee said:

So you want us to pay for the misuse of intellectual property?   Really??

A crazy idea...

5 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Bingo. As people, including myself have stated, this is an issue of Razbams making. They started this when they tried to illegally use the DCS IP, and got caught. If they would own up to the fiasco, and agree to EDs future terms, this would end today. But, RZ apparently has an ego the size of Jupiter, and won't just let ED 'win'.

You just need to read the statements of both sides with understanding and don't invent or look for strange things.
Instead of sitting down and doing it like adults... and solve this conflict...
As someone who has bought a few F-15Es, I see this issue still exists and is refreshed every now and then with posts that are meant to get the community excited but don't really do anything... It's not serious, I'm sick and tired of it.

[Jarhead0331]

This just blows.

ED needs to release a public statement. I don't know who is giving them their legal advice, but this has been a PR disaster and with the removal of all Razbam products from the store, it is only going to get worse. It would be wise for ED to get ahead of this latest development and issue some kind of a press release. Parties in litigation make public statements all the time and it is missing out on an opportunity to take control of the narrative.

It all begs the question, why, after a year, would Razbam make this request now? Furthermore, why would ED agree to it. There must be some contractual basis or development that led to this event.

Edited April 7 by Jarhead0331