waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Neil Gardner]

May I just ask: is it still the case that there is still the same hope of a positive outcome to this dispute, as was expressed from the first when this became public? Not asking for details obviously, but just whether the hope and expectation of it all is a positive outcome? 
 

Thanks.

 

Neil.

[Thx1137]

1 minute ago, Neil Gardner said:

May I just ask: is it still the case that there is still the same hope of a positive outcome to this dispute, as was expressed from the first when this became public? Not asking for details obviously, but just whether the hope and expectation of it all is a positive outcome? 
 

Thanks.

 

Neil.

From negotiation and "reasonableness" perspectives, it would be silly for either of them to say "no" until all avenues have been exhausted and the lawyers have been told to go home. So, you won't get a "no" The best you'll get is "we hope so". Which they have already said...

[Beirut]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:31 AM, Esac_mirmidon said:

Please, close this topic and both ED and RB  resolve the dispute. 

Keep arguing and pointing to the same statements actually is doing more damage.

 

You have the option to not read or participate in this thread. That is your choice.

 

Others want to read or participate in this thread. That is their choice.

 

It's that simple.

[nessuno0505]

15 ore fa, FNZ ha scritto:

Hi,

I am interested in the Mirage 2000 but apparently following the current conflict it seems that the module is encountering some small problems.
I can't figure out which ones in particular and if it will get worse, so as to make my decision whether or not to buy the module, at least for now.
Do you have any advice?
Thank you.

My suggestion is to wait. For sure wait at least for any Razbam's product. It could be a long wait, but you can't be sure of anything unless the dispute comes to an end (whatever it will be).

[Czar66]

16 hours ago, FNZ said:

Hi,

I am interested in the Mirage 2000 but apparently following the current conflict it seems that the module is encountering some small problems.
I can't figure out which ones in particular and if it will get worse, so as to make my decision whether or not to buy the module, at least for now.
Do you have any advice?
Thank you.

Welcome to the forums!

I'd reinforce nessuno's comment above to wait as well. The M2000C is a ton of fun, but with so many unknowns in its path, I personally suggest the nearest module like it from another developer. Perhaps the F1 will be a fit if you're after a Mirage in DCS, although both have not that much in common, or another.

[westr]

I don’t understand why are Razbam maps still receiving updates? 

[FNZ]

9 hours ago, draconus said:

Check and ask on the forum for details (https://forum.dcs.world/forum/248-m-2000/) but afaik no show stoppers are there. The module is pretty mature. It's your decision in the end - buy it if you really like the aircraft.

 

7 hours ago, WipeUout said:

And to add to this about future support, if you look at the second post made by Nineline on the second page of this thread, ED will continue support no matter what :

Thank you for your help and your very useful guidance.

Kind regards.

[FNZ]

3 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

My suggestion is to wait. For sure wait at least for any Razbam's product. It could be a long wait, but you can't be sure of anything unless the dispute comes to an end (whatever it will be).

 

3 hours ago, Czar66 said:

Welcome to the forums!

I'd reinforce nessuno's comment above to wait as well. The M2000C is a ton of fun, but with so many unknowns in its path, I personally suggest the nearest module like it from another developer. Perhaps the F1 will be a fit if you're after a Mirage in DCS, although both have not that much in common, or another.

Thank you for your wise advice.

I appreciate it.

Kind regards.

[MAXsenna]

I don’t understand why are Razbam maps still receiving updates? 

Why not? Different dev team.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[westr]

41 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Why not? Different dev team.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Different dev team but still working as Razbam developers aren’t they? So what’s the score there? If there’s a dispute with Razbam as a whole surely these map developers are paid for their work via Razbam? 

[Czar66]

7 minutes ago, westr said:

Different dev team but still working as Razbam developers aren’t they? So what’s the score there? If there’s a dispute with Razbam as a whole surely these map developers are paid for their work via Razbam? 

Published under Razbam. Not employed by Razbam, afaik. Something may distance both parties enough that payment may have not been compromised and development can continue (assumption). Some of the same developers as well for Kola map, that was released after the whole thing started and continues to be updated.

[MAXsenna]

Different dev team but still working as Razbam developers aren’t they? So what’s the score there? If there’s a dispute with Razbam as a whole surely these map developers are paid for their work via Razbam? 

Don't ask me. I don't know whether Razbam pays (some of) their employees or not, and I don't bother to speculate.
You asked the question why the South Atlantic map receives updates. I guess the map devs decided they wanted it to.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Czar66 said:

Published under Razbam. Not employed by Razbam

This is correct, and they have continued with development as normal. 

[Moosemermaid]

I have a small question that @NineLine may or may not be willing to answer. In the event a conflict between ED and a third party developer could not be resolved; could the license and development be handed off to another, obviously willing, third party developer or be taken over by ED themselves? 

[Ignition]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:04 AM, ustio said:

Does ED, plan to make any more statement at all now that it's been proven that ED haven't paid/ paid them late of two 3rd party developer to regain costumer trust?

 

Cause i surely not planing to buy any more module if the module could potentially left unsupported. 

ED confirmed they stopped paying Razbam, what we don't know is why. ED says because Razbam breached the contract.

P.S.: Oh, sorry I didn't understand, I also want some explanation since this can happen with any other module/3rd Party Developer

Edited July 12, 2024 by Ignition

[Horns]

On 7/11/2024 at 7:04 PM, ustio said:

Does ED, plan to make any more statement at all now that it's been proven that ED haven't paid/ paid them late of two 3rd party developer to regain costumer trust?

 

Cause i surely not planing to buy any more module if the module could potentially left unsupported. 

Any 3rd party can cease doing business in DCS at any time, no statement can change that fact.

ED have stated that mature modules will be kept working in the state they were when the dev left. If your concern is modules being unsupported I suggest you avoid EA modules, then you'll be sure what you're buying will continue to work regardless of what the future may bring.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Horns
Changed first sentence

[NineLine]

9 hours ago, Moosemermaid said:

I have a small question that @NineLine may or may not be willing to answer. In the event a conflict between ED and a third party developer could not be resolved; could the license and development be handed off to another, obviously willing, third party developer or be taken over by ED themselves? 

A lot of things would have to happen for that to be realized, most of them bad. I think the goal is and still needs to be RB back to work.

[Notso]

11 hours ago, NineLine said:

I think the goal is and still needs to be RB back to work.

Here's a crazy idea - tell Nick to pay RB while this whole thing is being worked out like adults.  I'm betting RB getting paid and going back to work would go a LONG way to allowing all parties to reach a mutually beneficial solution.  IMHO, ED is acting like a Bully and using their relative weight to bully a "partner" into acquiescence.  IF this alleged IP breach actually happened - I'm betting it was a misunderstanding of the intent and effects on both sides.  And butthurt on both sides is likely preventing any real movement.  

[WipeUout]

54 minutes ago, Notso said:

Here's a crazy idea - tell Nick to pay RB while this whole thing is being worked out like adults.  I'm betting RB getting paid and going back to work would go a LONG way to allowing all parties to reach a mutually beneficial solution.  IMHO, ED is acting like a Bully and using their relative weight to bully a "partner" into acquiescence. 

What is the contract saying if one party is breaching?  What are the remedies and consequences in the contract if there is a breach?  How can you suggest such a thing?  do you have access to that contract?  Let's be a little more patient, all those RB modules are working fine and we can enjoy them no problem. 

 

[Notso]

2 hours ago, wombat778 said:

Fwiw, l have never seen nor would ever recommend that one side in a legal dispute give everything the other side wants and THEN try to negotiate for what it wants.  

You’re missing the point. Put your lawyer hat down and look at like a human being. 

2 hours ago, WipeUout said:

What is the contract saying if one party is breaching?  What are the remedies and consequences in the contract if there is a breach?  How can you suggest such a thing?  do you have access to that contract?  Let's be a little more patient, all those RB modules are working fine and we can enjoy them no problem. 

 

Sigh……

[Slippa]

14 minutes ago, Notso said:

Sigh……

I agree with that bit.

Let it roll on. None of us are likely to sort it out here, we're just flapping now.

Both parties must be at least half as bored of it as I am by now. No-one wants it to drag out really, unless they're a lawyer.

[Hammer1-1]

It wouldnt set a good precedent for future problems with other developers should they do the exact same thing Razbam did. Why would you give your dog a treat if it urinates on your carpet?

[PaulToo]

43 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

It wouldnt set a good precedent for future problems with other developers should they do the exact same thing Razbam did. Why would you give your dog a treat if it urinates on your carpet?

What exactly did Razbam do?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, PaulToo said:

What exactly did Razbam do?

While we do not know (and likely will never know) the details, per the first post Nick Grey of ED has stated “On the contrary, the current disagreement is the result of improper actions that have been taken by Razbam Simulations, in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights, and for which we are seeking a reasonable and forward-looking commercial outcome rather than entertaining legal claims.”

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Notso said:

You’re missing the point. Put your lawyer hat down and look at like a human being. 

Sigh……

As a human or a lawyer, trying to negotiate after you have already given away everything to the other side is a poor negotiation strategy…