Why is tanker in constant bank and unstable altitude in precontact

[razo+r]

I've watched your third track but it desynced when the tanker entered the turn so I can only comment up until that point. Here's some advice:

- Trim the aircraft. Not just pitch axis but also the roll axis if needed. I see you constantly giving right stick. Just trim it...

- Like Minsky said, you only set the speed for waypoint 1 and 2, all remaining waypoints had a different speed. So the tanker changing speed is because you haven't set it up properly.

- Wake turbulence: Just turn it off if you can't handle it yet.

- If the sun is such a distraction for you, why don't you just change the time of day? You don't have to make it more difficult for you...

[Nealius]

When I checked his .trk as a .miz all the waypoints had the same speed and altitude. Though to y'all's point it would be easier to set it up in a racetrack orbit anyway, especially for rejoin.

[Yurgon]

6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Velocity Vector on probe tip is the first thing I tried and kept on doing.

That's 2 times bad advice in one sentence.

a) ignore the HUD
b) reference the tanker, not the boom

Use the boom position from your peripheral vision, but always fly formation with the tanker, not the boom.

Does the track play okay for you? It's basically your mission from the 3rd attempt, but catching up with the tanker for 5 minutes is boring, so I repositioned the player aircraft a bit closer, and made sure the tanker is set to the same speed for every waypoint.

Things to note:

• Safe the bloody weapon system before pointing it at the tanker
• Ignore the HUD. Literally.
• Rejoin on the tanker through the ABC of rejoins (Altitude, Bearing, Closure)
• Double check everything is good to go
• Get into pre-contact below the tanker, avoiding the wingtip vortex area right behind the wings and avoiding the jet blast
• Stabilize, make sure sight picture is looking good
• Call ready pre-contact
• Do the Boom Operator's job and fly the receptacle into the boom (it should be the other way around, but it is what it is)
• Stay plugged
• At 9,000 lbs I call it quits and rejoin in the reform area on the other side of the tanker

Granted, I've got a Virpil T-50CM2 base with a 10cm extension and a Warthog grip on top, and I'm pretty sure I have more than 1,000 hours in the DCS A-10C. Though with a TM Warthog on the desk and no extension, a proper curve setting also worked very well for me. I know people can plug in with an X56, though I've also heard that the throttle can be ultra stiff and hard to fine control; you'll need to figure out whether that's the case for you and if you can do anything about it.

Again, aerial refueling is formation flying. Learn formation flying, reduce the size of your oscillations, and tanking will work eventually.

A10CII_InflightRefuel.trk

Edited February 27 by Yurgon

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Things to note:

• Safe the bloody weapon system before pointing it at the tanker
• Ignore the HUD. Literally.
• Rejoin on the tanker through the ABC of rejoins (Altitude, Bearing, Closure)
• Double check everything is good to go
• Get into pre-contact below the tanker, avoiding the wingtip vortex area right behind the wings and avoiding the jet blast
• Stabilize, make sure sight picture is looking good
• Call ready pre-contact
• Do the Boom Operator's job and fly the receptacle into the boom (it should be the other way around, but it is what it is)
• Stay plugged
• At 9,000 lbs I call it quits and rejoin in the reform area on the other side of the tanker

This is not usefull adive as it is not actionable. There is nothing I can take from this. This is basically teeloing me "you are doing it wrong, do it right". I am sorry but this is useless  instruction.

 

Stabilize, make sure sight picture is looking good

What does that mean? I have no clue as to what,makes a good sight picture.  Also, up close to tanker, on 2D screen, I have very poor depth perception, Everything looks weird and distorted. Once the boom is behind cockpit, its a lost cause. Often thats what happens. The boom goes through cockpit canopy, through pilot.

Do the Boom Operator's job and fly the receptacle into the boom (it should be the other way around, but it is what it is)

It is what it is is NOT an explanation. Its useless.

I cannot do that. It is too chaotic. It is impossible. After hundreds of attempts, it is impossible.' Operator is suppoused to flythe boom into receptacle. Thats the whole point of flying boom. I have to hold the aircraft steady enough and operator does the rest. However I am unable to achive stability. Partly its becouse the darn tanker is doing weird stuff. it would pull away, bank, turn, dive, without warning. Then even if I hold it somewhat steady, the boom probe is insisde the cockpit or the nose. That makes no sense time. Just works badly.

Stay plugged. Again ! Impossible. Just imposssible. Motion is chaos. I do not have fine enough control. I tried , with door closed. Pull up to tanker, engage AP on alt/hdg mode. The boom is all over the place. Just to see what happens when both aircraft flown steady. Tanker via AI, A-10C via AP. Its crazy chaos. I have zero chance of doing it by hand. Again there is not enough fine control available. It does not work.

Please don't take it personally. Its a pet peive of mine, when I see instruction given without context.  I had same problem with learning Mosquito. I could not conquer rudder dance, and thus always ground loooped. Always! 100% fail. Every advice or instruction was same. 'You are doing it wrong".

[razo+r]

7 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Stabilize, make sure sight picture is looking good

What does that mean? I have no clue as to what,makes a good sight picture.  Also, up close to tanker, on 2D screen, I have very poor depth perception, Everything looks weird and distorted.

You know, you could just look for a tutorial, skip to the point where the guy makes contact and try to memorise that view... That's a really simple way to see what a good sight picture looks like... And there are tons of examples around...

7 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Once the boom is behind cockpit, its a lost cause. Often thats what happens. The boom goes through cockpit canopy, through pilot.

That means you were out of the movable limits for the boom, you are too far forward. Simply slow slight down to get back into position to try again.

7 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Do the Boom Operator's job and fly the receptacle into the boom (it should be the other way around, but it is what it is)

It is what it is is NOT an explanation. Its useless.

Not really. It just means you have to get as close as possible to the boom. The tanker does move it a bit.

7 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I cannot do that. It is too chaotic. It is impossible. After hundreds of attempts, it is impossible.' Operator is suppoused to flythe boom into receptacle. Thats the whole point of flying boom. I have to hold the aircraft steady enough and operator does the rest. However I am unable to achive stability. Partly its becouse the darn tanker is doing weird stuff. it would pull away, bank, turn, dive, without warning. Then even if I hold it somewhat steady, the boom probe is insisde the cockpit or the nose. That makes no sense time. Just works badly.

The tanker is 100% rock solid steady. Any movement or chaoticness is caused by you. And like I said, if the boom is inside of your cockpit, you are obviously not in the correct position... There are hundreds of people having had a go at aerial refueling. Some had difficulties, but most if not all eventually mastered the art of refueling, at least once. You on the other hand seem to be the only one that cannot do it even after "hundreds" of attempts.

7 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Stay plugged. Again ! Impossible. Just imposssible. Motion is chaos. I do not have fine enough control. I tried , with door closed. Pull up to tanker, engage AP on alt/hdg mode. The boom is all over the place. Just to see what happens when both aircraft flown steady. Tanker via AI, A-10C via AP. Its crazy chaos. I have zero chance of doing it by hand. Again there is not enough fine control available. It does not work.

I highly doubt that. It is impossible for the boom in DCS to move around if both aircraft are steady. Either one MUST move around for the boom to move around, and since the tanker is rock steady, there is a 99.9% chance it's you. Or do you have a short track of that too?

7 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Please don't take it personally. Its a pet peive of mine, when I see instruction given without context.  I had same problem with learning Mosquito. I could not conquer rudder dance, and thus always ground loooped. Always! 100% fail. Every advice or instruction was same. 'You are doing it wrong".

Please don't take it personally either, but whenever people give you advice, you seem to ignore it, or as stupid as it may sound, you may have some learning difficulties. Obviously it's hard to know if you are actually following the advices or not, but since you keep coming back with the same result, it does seem to be the case. I mean, we cannot fly the aircraft for you or hold your hands, you would need a flight instructor for that. We can only give you advices based on what we see. How you take that advice and put it into use is solely on you.

I mean, have you done some of the advice given here?

You at least tried to increase the speed of the tanker, so yes, you did actually listen to the advice given here. Though I must say, increasing the speed of the tanker is not the magical solution to this case simply because that is not the root of your problem.

But what about wake turbulence? Have you ever tried turning that off? In the tracks you posted one can often see you fly directly in the wake turbulence. At least try to avoid it, or turn it off. It will make your life easier.

And what about trimming? You have to make sure that the aircraft flies as straight as possible, this includes not just the pitch but also roll axis. The tracks show you never properly trim your aircraft.

Have you tried yet refining your basic flying skills? Manual speed hold and altitude hold and a combination of either? These are vital and essential to manual flying, formation flying and aerial refueling. The tanker is rock solid, any chaos conceived is your movement.

Have you already tried tinkering with the axis curves? Everyone has it's own taste, try a few different settings. Are you 100% comfortable with your currenr setting, or did you just set them at the current value because someone told you?

What about looking for tutorials? They will show you the sight picture you lack.

So that's already 6 advices given to you well within context and quite clearly described what you should be looking for.

And the biggest issue here has been adressed by various people several times here, and you yourself keep bringing it up. If you still look at all those advices, ideas and tips as "instruction without context", then I am sorry to say it but I'll have lost all hope in you. Again though, please don't take it in a negative way. It is as frustrating for you to see no progress as it is for some of us.

[Dragan]

On 2/26/2025 at 11:12 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I got original A-10C in 2013. My second DCS mod after DCS: KA-50. For twelve years I ignored or stayed away from learning fixed wing inflight tanking. For me it is impossible in AV-8B mod. Likewise looks incredibly difficult in A-10CII. 

Couple of tasks that I am simply unable to do. 

1. Unable to remain stable at same speed and altitude as tanker. Once joined up, the relative position of my aircraft and tanker dances crazily across screen. Speed is either 1 or 2 knots too fast or too slow. Nose either creeps up or creeps down. Now matter how fine my X56 throttle movement is, I am unable to find hold constant zero relative speed to tanker. Can't do it. After hundreds of hours of practice, not happening. I want to blame resolution resolution of my HOTAS, but figure others would have same issue. I don't see that in forums.

2. In 2D view, I am unable to judge accurate distance between and closure rate of own A/C and tanker when up close n pre-contact. I fail to find that magic 'sight picture' of tanker with respect to HUD frame.

3. To my, from my POV, it looks like tanker itself has erratic altitude. Often, up close, the probe is often inside my cockpit. That tells me that there is a DCS issue of position and collision detection in DCS.

4. Tanker turns and banks without warning , or in posted case is always in bank and turn , despite ME Task of Refueling. As I don't quite understand or predict tanker behavior, I cant tell what is happening.

So I gnored that part of DCS.

Now I gotten back to it. But not quite up to the challenge of the task.

I expressed my wish a few days ago here on the forum that we could make it easier for us to take fuel from the air with some option that we could adjust before the start of the mission we are working on, just like there is an option for easier flying or avionics in DCS or various auxiliary options in the difficulty settings, of course, those who don't want to don't have to use them. I don't see any problem with making this easier, at least for beginners. I think that such an option would make learning faster and gaining a better feel.This is a post about that.Many of us here have the same problem, of course we mention it when someone brings up the topic of tanker access..

 

Edited February 28 by Dragan

[Yurgon]

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This is not usefull adive as it is not actionable. There is nothing I can take from this. This is basically teeloing me "you are doing it wrong, do it right". I am sorry but this is useless  instruction.

I probably should have phrased it a bit differently. First and foremost, it's a description of

a) what I did in the track I attached to that message, and
b) what I think should happen in aerial refueling

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

What does that mean? I have no clue as to what,makes a good sight picture.

Well, did you watch the track? Does it play okay for you? I fueled up from 4,000 to 9,000 lbs if I recall correctly, so that should give you a sight picture right there within DCS on your own screen. If that is not what you need, then what is?

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Do the Boom Operator's job and fly the receptacle into the boom (it should be the other way around, but it is what it is)

It is what it is is NOT an explanation. Its useless.

Well out in the real world, pilots get within a very specific box right below the tanker, and then the boom operator plugs the boom into the receptacle. In DCS it doesn't work that way, you actually have to fly the receptacle into the boom. It really is what it is. Neither of us can change that. Accept it or don't, that's the way it works in DCS right now.

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Partly its becouse the darn tanker is doing weird stuff. it would pull away, bank, turn, dive, without warning.

In your first track I saw the tanker accelerate in the middle of the first leg for no apparent reason. Other than that, the tanker has been flying rock solid in all 3 tracks you provided. You have been told numerous times by numerous people that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way the tanker flies in DCS. It holds altitude and speed and only turns when it is commanded to do so by the mission. You will not find a more stable platform to refuel from. (Almost all) Tanker speed changes were performed precisely because you told the tanker to do so.

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Pull up to tanker, engage AP on alt/hdg mode.

I would recommend to leave the autopilot off in any kind of formation flying, unless it's a very wide and rather tactical formation and you need to spend a short amount of time heads down and want to make sure the jet doesn't do anything funny while your focus is elsewhere. In close formations, the autopilot simply doesn't help.

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Every advice or instruction was same. 'You are doing it wrong".

Well, you actually are doing it wrong - otherwise you'd be taking fuel.

Now, I understand this is highly frustrating. You try really hard to get it right, and it just doesn't work. Only you can tell if there's any improvement at all.

However, blaming DCS, blaming the tanker, blaming people who try to help you - none of that will fix your problems. You have been given lots of advice by people who (I assume) have gone through the same kind of frustration and have pushed through (I know I have). You seem to ignore most of the advice given and come back claiming it's impossible while you do everything the same way as before, expecting the result to be different. It'll just take you that much longer if you keep oscillating around all axes and if you keep chasing the boom, looking for a sight picture that no one else recommends.

So to recap:

• aerial refueling is formation flying
• start as simple as possible
• get good at holding very specific parameters on your own (like heading 350, +-2 degrees, altitude 15,000 feet, +-20 feet, speed 210 KIAS, +-2 knots), also learn to hold speed and altitude in a level turn
• learn the basics of formation flying
• formation flying (and AAR) requires constant inputs on stick and throttle, all the time
• don't chase the boom, fly off the tanker
• do NOT try to refuel in the air before you can hold a steady position off another aircraft, and can change that position deliberately (for instance from right via cross-under to the left, and vice versa)

If you say one more time that AAR is impossible within the next two weeks, I'm pretty sure you won't have followed this advice.

Good luck!

[DmitriKozlowsky]

OK, well, being labeled developmentally challenged is not fun. But this is useless. The process itself is dysfunctonal . I think its btoke.

This track proves it. I did every thing  right. As good as I can get it. Held it steady. Good sight picture of HUD frame at bottom of front fuselge.. Yet AI boom operator cannot put it in. The fact that boom can get inside the cockoit and inside pilot is proof right there that this is messed up. This is 'It is what it is" Well, what it is is effed up!

This is a "ED DO EFFING BETTER". Right now this is broken. Or somewhat defective.

 

A10CII_failedInflightRefuel_take4.trk

[Wrcknbckr]

One simple hint: STOP aerial refueling. START formation flying only. See you in a month.

[AdrianL]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

AI boom operator cannot put it in.

Well, yeah, as no point were you ever steady for him to insert. You moving all over the place.

Even if the boom did connect, you would immediately exceed the allowed parameters and be disconnected.

All the advice you need was given in the posts earlier. You just ignoring it and then declaring the process dysfunctional. 

Edited February 28 by AdrianL

[razo+r]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This track proves it. I did every thing  right. As good as I can get it. Held it steady.

I'm sorry to say but this track proves the opposite. You do hold it steady far behind the tanker, and that is good to see, but unfortunately that's not the position where you have to be steady. First you are directly behind the tail of the tanker, way above the boom. Then you correct down, only to go wayyyy below and speed up directly below the tanker, again way out of the limits. Then you approach the tanker way too fast (that's why it goes through your cockpit), only to fall behind and below again. That's followed by you then being up the tankers tail again, trying to hook up to the boom from above. That all is far from steady.

Whenever the tanker moves the boom, it means you are almost there. Whenever the tanker moves the boom back into the normal hanging position, it means you are out of parameters.

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Good sight picture of HUD frame at bottom of front fuselge.. Yet AI boom operator cannot put it in. The fact that boom can get inside the cockoit and inside pilot is proof right there that this is messed up.

The Boom getting into your cockpit shows you, as I have told you already, that you are in the wrong position or approaching way too fast, or you are not stable.

The picture below is a random one from the net, but it shows you a good sight picture. The HUD frame is far from the fuselage of the tanker. You have to find something else to reference to.

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This is a "ED DO EFFING BETTER". Right now this is broken. Or somewhat defective.

 

It is not broken. It is a "You do better" case.

Edited February 28 by razo+r

[Dragon1-1]

If you can't fly a stable formation, you can't refuel, so start with that. I did AAR with a CH stick with a giant deadzone in the middle and no curves. A better stick will make it easier, but it's not necessary. In fact, try getting rid of the curves first, see if it's better then. There's no such thing as a perfect trim, but you can get close. If you release the stick, you should be able to fly smoothly alongside the tanker for at least a few moments. You'll never AAR with a constant force on the stick (this is also critical to landing taildraggers, cancel out that stick force).

Closure is usually hard part. Remember, throttle movements need to be tiny, and it's a good technique to push it a little, then pull it back before you see your speed change. That way, you'll only accelerate a little. You also need to pull throttle before you actually plug, in order to stop comfortably within the zone.

This is from a guy who regularly AARs in the Tomcat (a completely analog swing-wing jet, and I do it with wings in auto, no sweat). The A-10 is a lot more gentle and forgiving than that. I fly in VR, so getting a sight picture is easier there thanks to actual depth perception, but I also refueled the Viper on a flat screen in another sim, with said CH gear. It's all about figuring out how to operate you specific stick and throttle in order to keep the aircraft within the box. 

BTW, another taildragger tip, keep the stick held back after landing. Should stop ground loops. If this makes you lift off, you're coming in too fast.

[Yurgon]

6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This track proves it. I did every thing  right.

No. You didn't. Your formation flying skills are, right now, pretty bad. You're all over the place. You can't hold a steady speed, altitude, or heading, you keep oscillating your own aircraft, and your corrections are both delayed and too strong.

That said, I think the oscillations have come down since the first track, so you're on the right track (pun intended).

Other than that, you keep ignoring all advice given to you, and you blame your own lack of experience on anything other than yourself.

Aerial refueling in DCS isn't 100% accurate compared to what it should be in the real world, but it's not broken as such. If you think the boom in your cockpit proves otherwise, fine, then you'd have killed yourself, destroyed a multimillion dollar jet and ruined a refueling boom, plus ruined the day for anyone else supposed to take gas from the tanker later on that same sortie. Good, you're right, DCS isn't realistic. If it was, no flight instructor in their right mind would let you within 20 miles of a tanker, because you're right now a danger to yourself and anyone else in the air.

Do you play an instrument? If you play the guitar for 10 years straight, and you just can't get anywhere near your favorite artists, like, not even close - it's not the guitar that's broken, and it's not random people on the Internet trying to help you get better who are the problem. It's a you-problem. No one else can fly your jet for you. If you want to get better, start listening to people's advice.

If you're just here to moan that DCS is broken and people suck because you perceive their attempts to help you as derogatory, well, you're not going to get to Mark Knopfler or Kirk Hammett level by blaming your guitar, yet that is all you've been doing for the entirety of this thread.

Good luck. You'll need it.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I can't say it any simpler. The boom is going inside the cockpit and inside pilot. Thats broken already. Right there.  It was said that I have to fly the receptecle into the boom probe. Thats strike #2. That is basic dysfunction of DCS tanking. Thats not possible, for me, as I don't see the boom probe beyond a certain point. In 2D view, that close to the tanker, I have very poor depth perception as to where I should be, forward, backward. Everything looks flat that close. If I zoom out, everything looks flat and distorted, there is no way for  me to gage anything. I am not actively ignoring advice. Its just that advice is not actionable. I don't know what to do with it. All this advice is saying "Do it right". It is not usefull. I can fly in formation with tanker for an hour, as long as tanker is ahead of me or to the side and ahead. But at the boom, it falls apart. Probe is all over the place.

[SharpeXB]

35 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

The boom is going inside the cockpit and inside pilot. Thats broken already. Right there. 

If you AAR correctly this won’t happen. You’re likely just smashing your plane into the boom when flying out of control. The graphical glitch here has nothing to do with the AAR process. In reality you’d have smashed the boom or your canopy but that’s not modeled. Consider yourself lucky

35 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

It was said that I have to fly the receptecle into the boom probe.

Don’t even look at the probe. Just keep station behind the tanker and let it connect to you. Don’t try to chase it. When you get into position it will move and try to connect so trying to chase it is counterproductive. Just hold steady in the right position. Keep the sight picture of the tanker and fly off of that, not the boom.

35 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I can fly in formation with tanker for an hour, as long as tanker is ahead of me or to the side and ahead. But at the boom, it falls apart.

That’s because you really aren’t steady in that position, it only appears like that because the tanker is so far away. When you get closer you’ll see how unsteady you really are. It takes a lot of practice. Get into position fully stable and trimmed behind the tanker when you call “Ready pre-contact” you should be steady and trimmed enough at this stage that you can take your hands off the controls. If not then you aren’t “ready”

Edited February 28 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

On 2/26/2025 at 6:19 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This is typycal of what happens. Up close at the tanker, KC-135 stock, its chaos. Tanker is up and down, boom is all over the place, speed is not steady. I can't hold the aircraft with such precision as to be within 1 foot of alt and 1 knot of speed. No matter how fine my controls are. Pretty sure that tanket itself is not at constant speed and altitude. Anway, I have no clue as what is happening, what I am doing wrong, thus I am clueless as to what I should do.

A10CII_failedInflightRefuel.trk 6.23 MB · 10 downloads

Watching this, like others have pointed out you’re just not in control. Nothing is wrong with DCS, you just need more practice. It looks better than my first attempt though

Edited February 28 by SharpeXB

[Yurgon]

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I can't say it any simpler. The boom is going inside the cockpit and inside pilot. Thats broken already. Right there.

Did you watch the track I provided?

When the jet is in the proper position, the boom doesn't go into the cockpit. It only does when you're in the wrong position. IRL, or when ED implement a boom collision model (which they once had, but it was bad), you'd likely be dead when that happens. So this is like the one thing I'm pretty sure you don't want fixed about AAR.

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

In 2D view, that close to the tanker, I have very poor depth perception as to where I should be, forward, backward. Everything looks flat that close.

I fly in 2D. I've heard it's apparently a lot easier in VR, but it is certainly possible to judge distance, position, and closure rate in 2D.

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I am not actively ignoring advice. Its just that advice is not actionable. I don't know what to do with it. All this advice is saying "Do it right". It is not usefull. I can fly in formation with tanker for an hour, as long as tanker is ahead of me or to the side and ahead. But at the boom, it falls apart.

Cool. Show us a track of you flying in close formation with the tanker, or any other aircraft, for 5 minutes straight.

[shagrat]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb DmitriKozlowsky:

The fact that boom can get inside the cockoit and inside pilot is proof right there that this is messed up

Actually it's proof that you would be dead and the plane(s) crashed in real life.

Lucky for us DCS allows the boom to pass through the cockpit, though they had it collidable for a short time, with even more frustrating results...

Alas, if ED could go the route of a couple training options, like a "virtual rubber band connection" or a "size-adjustable" connection box around the boom or even the dreaded AAR Assist, similar to Takeoff Assist for people with no pedals...

But that's not planned. So hoping for an overhaul of the boom operator AI is our only hope.

Edited February 28 by shagrat

[SharpeXB]

If AAR was more realistic it would actually be harder. You’d be able to suck the basket into your engines or break the hose

[drPhibes]

On 2/28/2025 at 9:35 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

OK, well, being labeled developmentally challenged is not fun.

It might not be, but it's pretty obvious why someone would jump to that conclusion. You really need to start seeing your own limitations, instead of constantly ignoring every single piece of advice (from people who know what they are doing, and are trying to help you!), and then blaming everyone else when you aren't able to do something. All of your "bug" reports seem to boil down to a) that you haven't understood how a thing is supposed to work, and b) you refusing to listen when someone tells you that you are doing x, y or z wrong.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

On 2/28/2025 at 6:43 PM, SharpeXB said:

If AAR was more realistic it would actually be harder. You’d be able to suck the basket into your engines or break the hose

Boom has no basket. Not in USAF variant. There is a small basket that expandle for refueling probe and drogue aircraft thats seldom used. I don't know if this feature is even in DCS.

AI boom operator is supoused extend or retract boom probe and guide it into the receptacle. Up close at tanker, that is simply not happening. I am unable to fly receptacle into probe, as I loose visibility of it at certain point. Whole point of flying boom is system is that the boom operator guides probe into receptacle, which then holds the aircraft in place within limits. 

Here is the latest track of me in formation. I had contact for a second , then contact was broken. Seem if I am even a knot faster or two faster, the boom won't hold in place. IMHO AI boom operator won't reconnect until door is cycled so that refuel light reads READY again. Middle pinkie switch is suppoused to do that, but that it is not doing in my case. Cycling door does. So here I am at the tanker, and proble just hovers at the nose, but never goes in. The kind of fine control of speed and position that is required, is something that I don't think is realistic on my end.

A10CII_failedInflightRefuel_take4.trk

[MAXsenna]

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

AI boom operator is supoused extend or retract boom probe and guide it into the receptacle.

Yes, but you have to be "steady" in the correct place for it to trigger the "connection". 

Apologies if this has been answered already. I just skimmed through the thread. I assume you have opened the receptive, as others looking at you're track would've mentioned it. AND when you finally get plugged, you will have some disconnects, so make sure you have mapped the receptible reset switch to your HOTAS, or you will never plug again. Learn that the hard way.  

What other AAR capable modules do you own. The A-10s are some of the hardest, if not the hardest module to learn in. (The Harrier is much easier IMHO). To learn the boom, a better choice are the F-15s, the F-16C and to much my surprise, the F-4E was super easy, but then I could already do it in the A-10s. 

The easiest to learn the rogue, I'd say the Su-33 or the Mirages. The Mirage F1 is just basically. Press autopilot when in formation and it will trim. Turn off autopilot and just fly the thing into the basket. The hit box is quite large. 

Cheers! 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

14 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Yes, but you have to be "steady" in the correct place for it to trigger the "connection". 

Apologies if this has been answered already. I just skimmed through the thread. I assume you have opened the receptive, as others looking at you're track would've mentioned it. AND when you finally get plugged, you will have some disconnects, so make sure you have mapped the receptible reset switch to your HOTAS, or you will never plug again. Learn that the hard way.  

What other AAR capable modules do you own. The A-10s are some of the hardest, if not the hardest module to learn in. (The Harrier is much easier IMHO). To learn the boom, a better choice are the F-15s, the F-16C and to much my surprise, the F-4E was super easy, but then I could already do it in the A-10s. 

The easiest to learn the rogue, I'd say the Su-33 or the Mirages. The Mirage F1 is just basically. Press autopilot when in formation and it will trim. Turn off autopilot and just fly the thing into the basket. The hit box is quite large. 

Cheers! 

Mirage , Hornet, and AV-8B. FC (Mig-29 and SU-27)

I have given up on AAR in Harrier from KC-130 that comes with Harried mod.Without VR (or so I have been told) it is , in fact , impossible, becouse the probe is offset to the side, and is not visible unless view is zoomed out and head turned, in such a way that distortion makes depth gaging of probe and basket impossible. So proble will never go in. Like in A-10C, in Harrier, I find myself with basket and hose inside the pit, going through the aircraft. Haven't trained myself on ither Mirage or Hornet for AAR. The prepiheral vision, required for Harrier is absent in non-VR 2D view and heavily distorted when zoomed out.

Boom method is suppoused to be easier. Holding A-10CII steady relative to tanker. Well how steady? How? Director lights , on tanker belly, are not apparent. From 2D pit view they are just a white strip. In replay when zoomed in tanker and camera positioned in F2 view, below the tanker, yellow and red director lights are visible. From cockpit of A-10, director ligt strip is a constant white strip. When I did make contact, my aircraft pushed the probe into the housing and it disconnected. Boom is suppoused to stabilize the receiving aircraft and keep it in place. Here, a slightest deviation, is a disconnect. Or worse, the probe is inside the cockpit. The probe inside pit, inside pilot, inside nose, is an error on part of ED. Boom operator retracts and extends probe as needed. Boom probe is flown into receptacle, not receptacle into probe.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

".., so make sure you have mapped the receptible reset switch to your HOTAS,"

OK, but there is no such HOTAS "receptible reset switch" available in Controls.  Pinky switch center is suppoused to do that, but does not work.

Neither is Aerial Refueling Slip Way Door Lever available.

I have to use mouse to manually close and open door. Doing so throws me off the tanker. 

[razo+r]

56 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Mirage , Hornet, and AV-8B. FC (Mig-29 and SU-27)

I have given up on AAR in Harrier from KC-130 that comes with Harried mod.Without VR (or so I have been told) it is , in fact , impossible, becouse the probe is offset to the side, and is not visible unless view is zoomed out and head turned, in such a way that distortion makes depth gaging of probe and basket impossible. So proble will never go in.

Stop saying impossible. It might be impossible for you but not for the rest of people, even for those that don't have VR. It's difficult but not impossible.

56 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Like in A-10C, in Harrier, I find myself with basket and hose inside the pit, going through the aircraft. 

For the 1000th time, if you find the boom or basket inside of the cockpit, you are in the wrong position.

56 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Boom method is suppoused to be easier. Holding A-10CII steady relative to tanker. Well how steady? How?

More steady than you currently are. But that is only for connection. Once you are connected, you have a bit more playroom. The boom can move about a total of 20 degrees up and down (10 up and 10 down from normal position) and you got about 12 feet that the boom can retract and extend (6 feet up and 6 feet down from normal).

56 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Director lights , on tanker belly, are not apparent. From 2D pit view they are just a white strip. In replay when zoomed in tanker and camera positioned in F2 view, below the tanker, yellow and red director lights are visible. From cockpit of A-10, director ligt strip is a constant white strip. When I did make contact, my aircraft pushed the probe into the housing and it disconnected. Boom is suppoused to stabilize the receiving aircraft and keep it in place.

No, the boom will NOT keep you in place. It is not strong enough to fixate you. It is your responsability to remain within limits, and if you exceed them, you get disconnected.

56 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Here, a slightest deviation, is a disconnect. Or worse, the probe is inside the cockpit. The probe inside pit, inside pilot, inside nose, is an error on part of ED. Boom operator retracts and extends probe as needed. Boom probe is flown into receptacle, not receptacle into probe.

Your "slightest deviation" are usually very large deviations. If you manage to push the boom all the way into the housing, that is NOT a slight deviation. As a matter of fact, if you have the boom inside of your cockpit, you are wayyy out of the movement limits of the boom, and that is definitly not a slight deviation but a so big one you exceeded the limits.

The only error from ED is that it doesn't collide with your aircraft and damage you or gets unusable because you pushed the boom way into the housing into the tanker itself. The fact that you keep finding the boom inside of your cockpit is an error from your side, quite clearly.

40 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

".., so make sure you have mapped the receptible reset switch to your HOTAS,"

OK, but there is no such HOTAS "receptible reset switch" available in Controls.  Pinky switch center is suppoused to do that, but does not work.

Neither is Aerial Refueling Slip Way Door Lever available.

I have to use mouse to manually close and open door. Doing so throws me off the tanker. 

The button you are looking for is the NWS Steering Button. It resets the refueling door connection.

Edited March 2 by razo+r