Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[rcjonessnp175]

Well save and upgrade to a 970 or better...

[ctguy1955]

Well save and upgrade to a 970 or better...

 

 

I thought I would have to change out my mother board too, but that is not the case.

The hdmi on my mb is not what I would use, its the HDMI slots on the GPU's and

I was mistaken to think that the MB one was what was needed. Sorry.:pilotfly:

[Kaiza]

oculus did NOT make the rift specifically for simmers.

 

No, but it looks like Palmer does some helo flying in his spare time, so hopefully the sim market will get plenty of his attention :thumbup:

 

[SkateZilla]

A. There's plenty of Videos of DCS on Rift DK1 and DK2 on YT,

 

B. the HDMI Port on your Mobo is for when you use the IntelHD Graphics GPU without a discrete GFX Card.

[hannibal]

A. There's plenty of Videos of DCS on Rift DK1 and DK2 on YT,

 

yes, there are many DCS oculus videos, but NOT many videos of DCS through the view of a cell phone looking into the oculus rift...

 

but thank you for reply :)

Edited May 18, 2015 by hannibal

[dot]

There is always a compromise between screen resolution, and required performance, so its understandable that Vive and Oculus have ended up with around the same res. No word yet if Samsung has supplied Oculus with custom 2160x1200 90hz displays with special features that are suited for a better VR experience. That said there haven't been a lot of complaints about the RES /SDE of the Vive and CB headsets at the recent tech shows. The 90Hz display should also help in a higher perceived antialiasing setting.

 

Hopefully once the NDA is lifted, DCS can give us some info on their RES/SDE experience with the CB prototype and EDGE. Personally I'm not too concerned about a small amount of SDE as people soon forget its there once they are immersed in the experience. RES is another thing all together from the poor experience I've had with the DCS and the DK2 with 75hz 960 x 1080 Per Eye . Although a huge part of the problem with my DK2 experience is that I can't adjust the IPD enough to make a proper assessment.:(

 

DK2 75hz 960 x 1080 Per Eye

CV1 90hz 1080 x 1200 Per Eye

 

Is that good enough, although a lot depends on what OPTICs etc are used.

More importantly atleast for me is a physical IPD adjustment. If you've ever looked thru a pair of binoculars set at the wrong IPD you'd know what I'm talking about.. It doesn't appear to be available in the recent CV1 pics. It would be nice if the slider had something to do with the IPD adjustment, but I'm not so sure it does.

 

It looks like they are going to spoon feed us weekly spec details until E3.

 

To make the list complete:

DK1 60hz 640 x 800 Per Eye

DK2 75hz 960 x 1080 Per Eye - Increase over 100% in resolution compared to DK1 !!!

CV1 90hz 1080 x 1200 Per Eye - Increase of about 25% in resolution compared to DK2 :(

Cv2 ?

 

This is a worrying trend.

Even if there is no screen door effect (pixels are jammed right next to each other) you still won't have enough pixels to make out distant objects.

 

I fear that most VR experiences for now will be pigeon shooting inside a room and racing and flying sims will have to wait for different optics or higher resolution screens.

 

I hope that 2nd gen VR HMD's come as soon as possible.

 

About IPD, just try looking with one eye and check if you think that's good enough for a flight sim.

[KaspeR32]

To make the list complete:

DK1 60hz 640 x 800 Per Eye

DK2 75hz 960 x 1080 Per Eye - Increase over 100% in resolution compared to DK1 !!!

CV1 90hz 1080 x 1200 Per Eye - Increase of about 25% in resolution compared to DK2 :(

Cv2 ?

 

This is a worrying trend.

Even if there is no screen door effect (pixels are jammed right next to each other) you still won't have enough pixels to make out distant objects.

 

I fear that most VR experiences for now will be pigeon shooting inside a room and racing and flying sims will have to wait for different optics or higher resolution screens.

 

I hope that 2nd gen VR HMD's come as soon as possible.

 

About IPD, just try looking with one eye and check if you think that's good enough for a flight sim.

 

Do you think it's safe to assume CV1 will get a bit more usable pixels as well due to the separate screens? I feel like the lenses were limited due to the single screen with DK1&2. I hope this also solves IPD issues.

[dot]

Do you think it's safe to assume CV1 will get a bit more usable pixels as well due to the separate screens? I feel like the lenses were limited due to the single screen with DK1&2. I hope this also solves IPD issues.

 

It will definitely be an improvement, but I fear it won't be a big one.

 

If you have a chance, have a look at Gear VR, it has about 42% higher resolution than CV1

and about 77% increase in resolution compared to DK2

 

Here is comparison between 1080p and 1440p mobile screen:

http://www.androidpit.com/full-hd-vs-quad-hd-vs-4k-phone-screen-resolutions

 

Even 1440p screen is not that great up close, so going for a much lower resolution is (imho) sad.

[SkateZilla]

The size dimensions of the screens been stated yet?

 

DK1:

215.6 PPI, 7 Inch LCD, 1280x800 @ 60Hz, 640x800 Per Eye.

 

DK2:

400.5 PPI, 5.5 Inch OLED, 1920x1080 @75Hz, 960x1080 Per Eye.

 

CV1:

2160x1200 Combined, Dual Screens @ 90Hz, 1080x1200 Per Eye

 

So, assuming they dont go above 5.5 total (ie no screen surface on the area of the orbital/nose bridge)

 

At 3 Inches Per it would be 538.1 PPI

At 2.75 Per it would be 587 PPI

At 2.5 Per it would be 645.7 PPI

 

One 5.5 Screen would be 449 PPI.

 

Then you have to look at added.clarity by dropping the pentile SubPX Arrangement.

[dot]

I think that screen dimensions are not that important.

Smaller screens go closer and larger further away from the lenses.

What matters is the FOV you can see in the headset and the screen resolution.

[AurelTristen]

I understand the fixation on resolution, but the only thing we REALLY need fine detail for is spotting enemy aircraft. As discussed in other threads, due to DCS's lack of scaling, it is already almost impossible to spot aircraft at realistic distances, even on very large monitors.

 

Whatever scaling solution that ends up fixing this will probably help out with VR. Besides, as it stands you could put as many additional pixels as you want in the Rift, but only the guy with triple SLI Titan X's is going to be able to push those pixels at the requisite refresh rate.

 

Luckily, most of our time in DCS is spent using the instruments to start up, take off, navigate and land. Other than gun-runs (which work out just fine on my DK2), most of the fighting in the A-10 involves looking at MFCDs. All of these things are almost usable in the DK2, so CV1 will probably be reasonably well equipped for simming.

[dot]

I think I'll buy either Vive or Oculus (Vive seems better atm), but they could have done much, much better in terms of screen specs. (apparently Oculus sold themselves to FB so they can get a custom screen)

[Chivas]

Oculus suggests that the CV1 display has a high fill rate, meaning there is a much smaller space between pixels. That should help reduce screen door effect, but I'm not sure how it effects the long distance view, and the ability to spot dots. I wonder since the pixels appear larger when our eyes are so close to the display, a single pixel dot, representing a distant aircraft could be more visible while in VR???

[dot]

This might work if ED guys tweak their engine to render distant aircraft much bigger (so they appear within 1 pixel on the screen) as most game engines go, if something is too far (occupies less than 1 pixel) then most likely it won't be visible on the screen.

 

The way to reduce this problem is to supersample, as explained in this article: http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/articles/dynamic-super-resolution-instantly-improves-your-games-with-4k-quality-graphics

 

However, the higher the screen resolution, the less of a problem this is (atm it's a huge problem).

[Chivas]

I think I'll buy either Vive or Oculus (Vive seems better atm), but they could have done much, much better in terms of screen specs. (apparently Oculus sold themselves to FB so they can get a custom screen)

 

There are definitely displays with higher resolutions, but I'm not so sure there are higher resolution displays with the necessary qualities for VR like, high fill rate, 90Hz, and the Global something other that seems very important. Not to mention the fact a higher resolution screen might require a much higher recommended computer system. One of the reasons that Vive and Oculus appear to have settled on very similar displays atleast as far as resolution goes.

 

Facebook monies could allow Oculus have a custom resolution display made, and equally important is their partnership with Samsung, that can actually get it done, at a reasonable price point. No word yet if the display Oculus is using has been specially made by Samsung with a higher fill rate, etc etc. Not so sure that HTC makes displays, but they probably have a contract with a display manufacturer that can deliver a display at a decent pricepoint.

[Chivas]

This might work if ED guys tweak their engine to render distant aircraft much bigger (so they appear within 1 pixel on the screen) as most game engines go, if something is too far (occupies less than 1 pixel) then most likely it won't be visible on the screen.

 

The way to reduce this problem is to supersample, as explained in this article: http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/articles/dynamic-super-resolution-instantly-improves-your-games-with-4k-quality-graphics

 

However, the higher the screen resolution, the less of a problem this is (atm it's a huge problem).

 

I have no idea, but can something be rendered smaller than a pixel? Aren't distant aircraft rendered as small as one pixel or more as it gets closer. If that's true, it stands to reason that the distant aircraft would appear bigger than on a monitor at the same resolution since a pixel appears larger in VR.

[dot]

I have no idea, but can something be rendered smaller than a pixel? Aren't distant aircraft rendered as small as one pixel or more as it gets closer. If that's true, it stands to reason that the distant aircraft would appear bigger than on a monitor at the same resolution since a pixel appears larger in VR.

 

No, have a look at the nvidia article, if there is nothing in the sampled pixel, usually nothing is drawn.

 

This is the same situation supersampled:

 

You can imagine that the lower the resolution the bigger problem this is.

[average_pilot]

When I was a teenager I spent a lot of time with Microprose's F-19. Resolution was 320x420 and planes on the distance were drawn as single pixels, giving excelent playability and situational awareness.

 

The same that they didn't stop doing simulators on the early 90's because PC's were not powerful enough to render 3D graphics at 1600x1200, now with VR, software will adapt to VR hardware beacause the advantages are tremendous.

 

"Smart scaling" ala Falcon 4 and lower fidelity cockpits to make them readable in exchange to feel like you are in the cockpit, look around naturally and generaly operate an aircraft as if you really were inside it... I'm buying it. Simming in a desktop monitor will look ridiculous in comparison in no time.

 

The Rift and the Vive are in development by geniuses. I have no doubt that once these products hit the streets they will be the best that human intelect can deliver.

 

And remember that they are making a consumer VR headset. There are lot of comprimises to make in order to obtain a target price point.

You already have mighty VR HMD's for 90,000$ (or so they say, don't ask me for links ;) )

[hansangb]

F19...loved that game. And Gunship! Thank god for Belsimtek's Huey. what a great sim that is.

 

hsb

[SkateZilla]

These headsets were developed to be generally affordable.

 

Add A 4K screen and required chips you're looking at a substantial increase in cost.

 

Then another increase in system requirements, 4K rendered one two separate.viewports at 90FPS would take an insane ammount of GPU Power and Ram, likely 2 years away (HBM2 GPUs with upwards of 16GB each).

 

Not to mention there currently is no mobile/sub 10'' 4K screens capable of a 90Hz refresh rate in production. Nor a MIPI chip capable of 90Hz at 4K,

 

Even.the SG Note 4 @ 1440P, only runs a MAX of 60FPS, any higher would require.a more expensive MIPI chip, which isnt in mass production at all.

[blksolo]

I have a performance question for you guys. I have a DK2 with a GTX 760. I'm thinking about maybe snagging a used 970 or 980 on Ebay. For those of you with a 970 or 980 what is the performance like with DK2 and DCS,do you get an acceptable frame rate with max settings? My system specs are i7-2600, GTX 760, 16 gig RAM, SSD drive, Win 7.

Edited May 22, 2015 by blksolo

[Markeebo]

I have a performance question for you guys. I have a DK2 with a GTX 760. I'm thinking about maybe snagging a used 970 or 980 on Ebay. For those of you with a 970 or 980 what is the performance like with DK2 and DCS,do you get an acceptable frame rate with max settings? My system specs are i7-2600, GTX 760, 16 gig RAM, SSD drive, Win 7.

 

 

I recently moved from a 690 to a 980. Really didn't notice any improvement. CPU is the bottleneck. My experiences are not scientific. Simply subjectively observed.

 

From the few limited other apps that I have seen, ED really didn't put a ton of work into implementing the DK2 into its current engine. If I recall, at first, they simply refused to consider Rift support. I'm glad they changed their minds.

 

However, I think that they did the minimum required to get the code to accept rift support, opting rather to roll resources into EDGE and improve the experience there.

 

Better performance is just around the corner. 2-3 weeks.

[dot]

Are there any words on recommended PC specs required to get 90FPS on Oculus CV1 and HTC Vive?

 

Will Oculus recommended specs do?

 

NVIDIA GTX 970 / AMD 290 equivalent or greater

Intel i5-4590 equivalent or greater

8GB+ RAM

[PiedDroit]

Some info about the minimum specs (I think this has been posted already, along with other links):

 

• NVIDIA GTX 970 / AMD 290 equivalent or greater
  
• Intel i5-4590 equivalent or greater
  
• 8GB+ RAM
  
• Compatible HDMI 1.3 video output
  
• 2x USB 3.0 ports
  
• Windows 7 SP1 or newer
  

https://www.oculus.com/blog/the-rifts-recommended-spec-pc-sdk-0-6-released-and-mobile-vr-jam-voting/

http://www.gizmag.com/oculus-rift-specs/37536/

 

If you plan to do your upgrade now you should consider waiting as the price of hardware will drop.

Edited May 22, 2015 by PiedDroit
added link to www.oculus.com

[dot]

Sorry, I should have said; what are the recommended specs to get DCS/ DCS2 to run at 90fps in CV1 or Vive?

 

I agree, there is no point buying new PC for VR before Vive or CV1 come out (unless you currently have macbook air and want to play with DK2).

 

Also next get gpus seem to have much better memory bandwidth (virtual triangles will love this :)

 

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/03/17/pascal/

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-r9-390x-video-card-specifications-performance-numbers-leak_160191