SCPanda

Apparently it's a bug introduced by 2.7. Aim-120 destroys wings when launching. And I don't think wing breaking off has anything to do with pulling high Gs.

Thx for the info. Now you are making me want to buy the JF-17. Viper development from ED is very slow and painful. On the contrary, I heard Deka did a great job on that little jet. Also, does the JF-17 flies quite similar to the Viper?

So, at the moment, is the dev working on improving the performance in 2.7? Kinda worried that ED is just gonna leave it there

Yep. I have the same experience as well. It's even more frustrating if it's a Fox 2 fight and your JHMCS just can't lock the target.... Worst thing is, this happens literally every time... I guess ED's testing team don't really do dogfighting.

Yep, ED needs to learn from Deka and Heatblur. Or hire more people to do the job. "EA is a long process"... I have heard this from ED so many times....

Pretty sure Russians will try to get close into visual range (and even as close as formation flying) with to intercept a NATO jet flying into Russian airspace instead of firing a long range radar guided missile straight away. My point is since you don't start shooting BVR missiles to intercept a foreign jet whose nation is not at full scale war with you, you will probably end up doing BFM with the bandit like the Turkey and Greece does. Therefore dogfighting ability is still an important factor in modern fighter development. Whether actually firing guns & fox 2s or not, that's a complicated question. Depends on how the intruder respond to your interception and if the chain of command clears you to fire. Things like politics will get involved so I don't wanna get into that discussion. Still, dogfighting is important. That's the point I am trying to make.

In DCS, a Hornet can outrate a Viper without pulling paddle by rating at 350-360 knots (Viper flying his proper rate speed at 430). Maybe this is just how overpowered Hornet's FM is now, but I believe the underpowered FM of the Viper is also an important reason why) Yeah this is just absurd. F-15 can also pull some crazy AOAs.

Yes. I think the Tomcat is ugly, especially inside the cockpit, huge bars in front of your face and cockpit layout is trash. People love that jet because of Top Gun. Variable wing is just not my thing. Any air force jet will snap if you land the way you land the Hornet. Maybe you naval aviation dudes just can't land a jet on a runway. I guess smashing your plane down like a brick is your style? No elegance in that...

Although I am a Viper driver and have been beaten by many Hornet drivers pulling the paddle (given the current problematic FM and G model for the Viper), I agree paddle on the Hornet is not cheating. They can use it if they want and I never complain. BUT I do hope they don't use it tho. Hahaha.

I believe he was fighting an AI, AI does not chaff unless you fire a radar guided missile toward it.

Brightness rocker won't change a thing, because if you spawn in an F-16 during a daytime mission, the brightness is automatically set to max. I wish ED could make it brighter. One tip: you could use the contrast rocker and change the contrast to maximum when flying a daytime mission, it won't make the screen brighter, but it will make the colors brighter (such as the rings in HSD and datalink tracks).

AIs are all seeing and all knowing. Fear them, or they will become skynet. lol

Nope it wasn't, I have tested for several times when bandit goes defensive and dive from high altitude to low altitude, SAM always lost lock. TWS did not.

Also, high altitude FPS is pretty decent, a bit less (maybe around 10 FPS or even less) than 2.5.6, but with new clouds that's understandable. Unfortunately I have tried repairing (on steam so I can only verify game files), no luck...

Just to elaborate on how clouds do not affect FPS: I did a test yesterday with overcast 4 preset (the one with 3 layers, if I am remembering it right, I'm at work now so I cannot check), so the first layer of dense clouds is visible at low altitude. I was in an F-16 flying at 1000 feet over Beirut. Tried clouds standard and clouds ultra, FPS in both scenarios are pretty much the same, just 2-5 frames lower from ultra clouds. But the FPS drop drastically when I am over the city. Also same behavior in Persian Gulf and Caucasus. Nevada seems to have the best FPS when flying over Las Vegas. Average FPS flying at low altitude (0-10000 feet I guess) and over cities in 2.5.6 is much better compare to 2.7. And yes, around 30% FPS reduction in 2.7. So the problem is definitely with ground objects, not the new clouds. But as far as I understand, the only graphical changes in 2.7 are new clouds, and "Several changes in graphics effects", according to the patch note. So did ED change anything related to ground objects or maybe textures? "Several changes in graphics effects" is kind of a vague statement. I wish ED could explain what those changes are, would love to hear from them. Also, I hope my finding can provide ED a better understanding of the performance reduction issue in 2.7 and help them test what the REAL problem is. P.S. FPS loss also occurs when you turn your head and look at crowded areas like cities and busy airports, but as you climb to higher altitude, the loss gets better. Above 20000 feet, the FPS loss is negligible. @BIGNEWY

I guess you haven't read about what people are complaining regarding Viper's FM and the communication between players and the dev team in the forum? You just assumed people are complaining Viper cannot match Hornet's AOA, and they have no knowledge what they are talking about? You are wrong. The fact is, I haven't seen anyone complained or even questioned about Viper's AOA limitations, because we all know Viper is pretty AOA limited by the FLCS, unlike the Hornet. The current problems with Viper's FM is the G onset, lift curve (causing higher energy bleed) , and ITR. To be clear, these are what I've read in the forum, and have been confirmed by ED. I have never made any claimed regarding these issues myself, because I am not an expert, but there are some people in the forum with decent knowledge about these stuff. We all know a Viper will lose a 1 circle fight against a Hornet due to its AOA limited by FLCS, but the Viper should be able to outrate a Hornet in real life, but it's the other way around in DCS. Hornet will murder Viper in a rate fight with the current FM in DCS. Please do some reading and don't accuse people of complaining because they are ignorant and are just "rats leading themselves off a cliff".

Sad thing is, Hornet's FM is also still WIP and even when it's released, it was and is now a very capable jet in BFM (both 1 circle and 2 circle). The Viper however, which is known as a deadly jet in dogfighting, has a WIP FM that underperforms and flies like a brick in BFM. I don't think there were as many people in the Hornet section complaining about how the Hornet was bad at dogfighting and its FM needed a quick rework, because they could and still can pull the paddle to pull 9Gs with no punishment and outrate almost every other fighter jet in DCS. Also, because people complained, it brought Viper's FM to ED's attention and what is actually wrong with it. ED never voluntarily announced Viper's FM is wrong and underperforming, all I heard from them is how DCS Viper FM is accurate and it matches the real EM diagram.

I disagree. In the modern world today, unless there is a huge war between two nations, air to air engagement does not usually take place in BVR, because firing a missile means declaring war. Dogfighting is still a thing in air intercepts. This is very recent Also, airforce of many nations still train their pilots how to dogfight and does BFM practice as well. Even 5th gen stealth fighters consider maneuverability and fox 2s as very important factors in development.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2020-08-14/ This is more recent, and it's an official newsletter on their website.

JF-17 block 3 now has AESA. It's a pretty capable small jet in BVR now. Of course that's not the block we have in DCS.

To share my experience of playing on PVP BVR servers flying the Viper, I use TWS almost all the time in the Viper for consistent tracking, because in the Viper's AA radar modes are still WIP, SAM mode does not automatically adjust radar elevation so if the bandit or me changes altitude drastically, SAM mode will actually lose the lock. TWS mode however adjusts the radar elevation automatically and it actually provides better tracking than SAM mode (I know this is unrealistic but this is how it works in DCS in the current state). BUT I do not use TWS to find the target, because it takes forever! RWS is much faster, so I usually use RWS to find the target, TMS up once to lock it in SAM mode, and then immediately TMS right long to track it in TWS. After an engagement, or I broke the lock due to defensive maneuver or bandit notching, I TMS down and use RWS to reacquire the target. In close range engagement however, I just use RWS+SAM mode since the fights take place very quick. You have to fire, defend, and notch the incoming missiles fast, so there is no time to switch my radar to TWS tracking. Also Aim-120 goes pitbull almost immediately in close range there is no need to track the bandit for that long. Also I never use STT since it basically tells the bandit you are tracking him and it also give him missile launch warnings.

I agree. I also don't believe there are so many people reporting performance gain... Maybe they don't have FPS counter on and they just felt the game became smoother? Cuz all my friends I fly with are having performance loss in 2.7, and we have different systems, like GTX 2080s, 2060m, 1080 etc. With ED saying that there are around 70% of players reporting performance gain from 2.5.6, I really feel like I live in a different universe....

Ok so I have tried reinstalling DCS, no improvement... So far I have tried deleting the DCS folder in saved games, downgrading my Nvidia driver to 461.72, repairing DCS (I'm on Steam so verifying game files), and reinstalling... Still getting the 30% fps loss compare to 2.5.6, especially flying low near crowded areas like cities and busy airport. Clouds are fine and do not seem to affect FPS. My Spec: GTX 1080 i7 7700k 32 GB Ram DCS on SSD Graphic settings: All effects high, MSAA 2x, SSAA, SSAO, SSLR all off, Clouds standard, Terrain shadow flat, Vsync off, Fullscreen at 1080p

Yep. In DCS, it's the other way around. F-16 cannot outrate anything, Hornet will murder the Viper in rate fights and 1 circle fights.

Also HARM is now very easy to use. Set it to a waypoint, select target type, loft and fire, missile will go super high and far to kill the target. No need to acquire the enemy radar through HAS anymore.