SCPanda

Thank you for the clarificaiton! Yes please, I would love to see your test data at 500ft and 5000ft. Thank you for the hard work! Also, I see that Hornet's STR really outperforms the Viper in all speed ranges. That should explain why it's basically impossible to beat a Hornet with a Viper.

Could be the reason ED's test is way better than https://dcs.silver.ru/77 indicates.

Thx for sharing your test data. According to your test data, DCS F-16 with 24k lbs GW and 0 DI can achieve STR of 21.2 D/Sec at 9G at 0.7 Mach (around 437 kts) at 500ft, which is really great and realistic performance. However, this graph definitely shows different results. https://dcs.silver.ru/77 Test done by @totmacher According to this graph, DCS F-16 (OB version 2.7.6.12852) with 10784 kg GW (23774.65 lbs, a little lower than ED's test) and no pylons (0 DI) can only achieve STR of 18.62 D/Sec at 0.7 Mach at 1000ft. Yeah I know the altitude is off by 500 ft but I highly doubt the difference would be that big. At 0.5 mach, the STR is also more than 3 degrees per second lower than ED's test. Another thing is I have tried the new FM, our DCS F-16 with 24k lbs GW and 0 DI cannot even achieve not to say maintain 9G at 0.7 Mach. At least that's what the G number in the cockpit tells me. I don't know how ED got 9G in the test. Personally, I would love to have the STR performance indicated by ED's test data. I mean, 20.6 D/Sec at only 0.5 Mach and 5.9G is absolutely amazing. Unfortunately, it just seems not true at all. @totmacher I saw that you also noticed ED's data. Would love to have some of your input in this discussion. Thanks.

Yeah I have noticed the same behavior in TWS. Lock were dropped and radar elevation changed by itself from about -5 21 to something like 66 99. Very strange behavior.

Thx DCSoping.

Thx for the information Frederf. Update: just tested TWS today and found another weird behavior: after bugging the target, the lock held for about few seconds and then the lock was dropped (target nor me was manuevering), and radar elevation was changed to all the way up (something to 99), which is not the elevation I set before locking the target. Basically TWS is unusable at the moment.

Sure. But doing that every time you spawn in a new jet is a waste of time. Editing the lua file for one time it will save the CMS profile for you. Isn't that just much more convenient? And, if you try to do a fox 2 dogfight with a player in the dogfight sever, you just don't have the time to edit your CMS profile, since all those severs have air spawn and only 10 miles speration with 2 jets flying headon at each other. Letting us edit the lua file before DTC gets implemented is simply a better option at the moment.

The new FM defintely "feels" better, but STR is still no match to the Hornet, and STR has no big improvements from the previous FM. https://dcs.silver.ru/77,70,71 According to the graph, STR has about 0.02-0.04 degrees/second improvement from the previous FM in the 340-400 kts range, around 416 kts and above the STR is the same as the previous FM. So if you rate fight the Viper in the speed it should be used for rate fight, you will get pretty much the same result as before this FM update. And look at the graph for the Hornet, its STR is still far better than the Viper in all speed ranges. Even if the Hornet does not use paddle to override its 7.5 G limit and rates at 360, its STR still beats the Viper rating at 430. I also fought a real human piloted Eagle in the dogfight sever, despite rating at 400-430 in the Viper, I still had a hard time out-rating him, but he made a mistake by pulling too much to get a shot in the end, so I won by luck. IMO, Viper's FM, especially STR still needs tuning. It's still below what the HAF EM diagram shows according to the graph (https://dcs.silver.ru/77,70,71).

Before the newest patch, once a target is bugged(aka locked and ready to fire) in TWS, TWS mode will automatically adjust radar elevation if the target changes altitude drastically or you are changing your own altitude drastically, like in a deep dive. Now, we have to manually adjust the radar elevation (which we couldn't before since it automatically did it for you) when target is bugged (similar to SAM mode now). Is this an intended/realistic behavior? Nothing about this change in the patch notes so I believe this is a bug.

Not a mod, but a manual edit of the F-16's CMDS_ALE47.lua file. Use: edit the default countermeasure profiles to my preference so we don't have to do that through DED every time I spawn in a new jet. DTC has not been implemented yet so this is the only way for us to do this. Thx

Yep. Without DTC, this is the only way we can edit CMS profiles for now.

Thank you for the update Linx! I was worried that ED changed their mind again lol. Could you please share an link to that post by BIGNEWY? Or let us know where you saw it? Thanks!

Yes itn, this was exactly the problem I encountered. Thank you for the track. Hope ED can investigate this soon! Thanks for the info Frederf! The current behavior does indeed seem wrong.

With a target locked in SAM mode, TMS right long won't let you switch to TWS, it used to work before the new patch. I don't know if this is true that it does not allow you to swtich from SAM to TWS in real life, but at least by pressing the OSB button in SAM mode, it does indeed let you switch to TWS. I guess maybe in the newest patch, TMS right long HOTAS command just does not work. Edit: TMS right long does let you swtich from RWS to TWS tho, but not from SAM to TWS.

Totally agree. The entire G modeling in DCS needs to be tweaked, black out instantly at 9G is just ridiculous. Also modeling the inclined seat effect, which gives Viper pilots better G tolerance than pilots flying other jets.

I hope they can get it right. Right now G-tolerance in DCS is still ridiculously low. Viper pilots also should also be able to sustain more Gs in a longer period of time.

I found it quite easy to land actually, also Viper's landing style is also quite elegant comparing to other jets like the Hornet. I love doing the gentle touchdown and aerobrake on the Viper.

Sadly, I believe it's currently on their lowest priority of their planned features.

Yeah, vest misleading, and they do that a lot. They love moving and deleting stuff. Even though some posts never broke the forum rule... It seems they just want to shape the dialogues to their favor. Edit: this post will probably also get deleted LOL.

Wags is always awesome

Yep. Time to move on. This is the best decision that suits everyone.

Best thing for me is not more HARMs, but the ability of being able to carry 2 HARMs with other smart munitions such as Mavericks, JDAMs, CBU-105s etc.:D Edit: Oh I forgot, more AA missiles as well! Love your profile pic! Asuka!

Glad to see this battle over loadout options comes to this nice end!

Nice! BTW, great flying winning the tournament and beating the AI! You are a legend!

Yep. ED said on Hoggit it's for all aircraft even the AI. Not just the Viper. Also, HTS pod in the picture!