F 15 refueling procedure

[ruddy122]

Chipwich,

 

The PDI lights or Pilot Director Lights are the lights you use in conjunction with your visual references to know where you are in the boom envelope when you are in contact (i.e. connected)

 

When looking at the KC-135 the U/D lights stand for Up and Down the ideal reference angle you are looking for is 30 deg or what we used to call the "Captain's Bars".

 

So if you get a red up arrow (the arrow closest to the U), it means you are too low and need to climb up. Same concept if you get the red down arrow. You never want to go to either red because you may have a brute force disconnect which will increase your chances of your F-15 or A-10 to become a mythical unicorn.

 

The F and A stand for forward and aft the ideal distance in the boom envelope is 12 ft. Again red is bad but being to far aft (red light to the F) is a lot better than being way too far forward (red light to the A) which will result in very bad things when you are literally underneath the tanker.

 

Instructor Pilots in heavy aircraft teach their aircraft commander students boom limits demo to teach the student how much room you have in the boom envelope.

 

By the way it is a lot easier to AR in real life than in the sim.

 

Cheers,

[Worther_1]

I'm struggling with this also, so I've setup my own mission with my F15 already airborne 2nm back inline with tanker just so I can practice final approach quickly, this seems to be helping. Also manual from Falcon 4 (written by F-16 instructor) recommends 10knts over speed / closure per 1000 ft. So if you're 6000 ft behind tanker approach at 60 knts closure rate. Also recommends radar lock on tanker to detect closure rate (just don't get frustrated and launch!).

 

Worther_1

[antzti]

Just finished my refueling practices for today and I finally did it after crashing 2 jets and struggling 16 minutes around the tanker in 3rd attempt.

 

I don't know if its counted as "cheating" (as in could you do it IRL) but I locked the tanker with my radar so I saw his speed constantly while refueling. Also closing in to the tanker is easy when you see the distance from radar screen.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/antzti/profile I hilighted all 3 attempts. :joystick:

[jcbak]

It may be just me, but after the latest update, it seems that once the boom strikes the aircraft, even in a small way....BOOM! Both planes explode. That wasn't the case previously. It is most likely me, but I haven't had that issue before.

[GGTharos]

Yes, it's unnecessary. In RL you would have microwaved the boomie and possibly detonated the fuel onboard the tanker, so stop doing that.

 

You ONLY need visual references to refuel correctly, you don't need to be watching ANY speed readouts.

 

I don't know if its counted as "cheating" (as in could you do it IRL) but I locked the tanker with my radar so I saw his speed constantly while refueling. Also closing in to the tanker is easy when you see the distance from radar screen.

[enigma6584]

Yes, it's unnecessary. In RL you would have microwaved the boomie and possibly detonated the fuel onboard the tanker, so stop doing that.

 

You ONLY need visual references to refuel correctly, you don't need to be watching ANY speed readouts.

 

So, you got any screenshots or video replays you'd care to share showing us struggling with this what the correct visual reference is? Last night I went boom again. I think I bounced too far up the boom but I'm not sure. I was using very fine, careful adjustments. I know I can do it, I did it with you and the 44th 10 years ago. :pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

10 years ago the plane flew you on the boom position on autopilot.

 

I'll see if I can get a screenshot at some point, but really ... it's not that hard to be looking :)

 

Right now there IS a possible bug where the boom doesn't track your plane if you're the MP host or if you're playing SP (not sure about the SP one), so you literally have to plug the boom in yourself! That's pretty tough.

 

After you're plugged in, staying in position isn't that hard and you won't need any screenshots from me ;)

[Svend_Dellepude]

To me it seems much easier now.

I usually line up a little offset to the right of the tanker, so that the refuel door and not the cockpit is lined up with the boom and then approach with a minimum of overtake and with my eyes focused on the tanker and nothing else. When then "ready" light goes out and i'm connected i just stick to that point in space in relation to the tanker.

 

The thing is that there is no range calls and the lights are hard to see from so far behind them, so what i did to practice was to approach the tanker as described and when the boom had passed the cockpit I pressed pause, then F2 to see how far i had left before connect, then back in the cockpit to take reference of the tanker, then a little closer and so on until i got connected. With just a little practice that way, my refueling probs are now over.

 

As a sidenote: AAR seems to get more difficult with speed, so keep it slow to begin with.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Svend_Dellepude

[Sierra99]

All tanker boom operators are drunk and won't refuel you unless you fly flawlessly lined up with the tanker.

 

Yes...Boom Operators are a nasty breed...I know a few...but to say we're all drunk is a complete misrepresentation of the facts...

 

We DO sober up to fly...:smilewink:

 

That being said...

 

The secret to getting refueled is not to fixate on the Boom...fly good stable formation on the TANKER approx 50' back and slightly below. As you close to contact, use small power inputs, small stick inputs and take your time...

[Joni]

 

By the way it is a lot easier to AR in real life than in the sim.

 

Cheers,

 

 

So true, I've done so many ARs in real life and literally NONE in DCS... I find it very difficult.

[bberendts]

remember to adjust the curvature of your Y-Axis using axis tune to something like 30 while in the controls menu. This will make the stick easier to handle at low deflections where tiny adjustments are needed.

 

is this suggested/recommended for the X-Axis too?

[sslechta]

Mine are both the same but the number you use depends on your stick and comfort levels. I use 50 on both X and Y.

[HarpO74]

I've spent hours trying this on and off. The last attempt tonight, I was lined up and a bit behind, just edging forward slowly and the boom touches the top of the AR receptacle and boom, I explode yet again. The boom can't plug for shit.

 

AAR is busted, especially when other pilots tell you this is way harder in DCS than in real life.

 

I'm not wasting any more time trying to make this work.

[probad]

i have no idea what you're talking about, you must have a different definition of what touching the boom to the receptacle means.

 

I've spent hours trying this on and off.

here is your problem, you think it's supposed to be "good enough" that you simply give some casual attempt and crumple on the ground to cry on the forums when met with difficulty. sorry not sorry that not all things in this world are designed to gratify you with success within the first 3 tries like so many other computer games would have you believe.

 

i assure you with enough practice aar in dcs is nothing short of trivial.

Edited June 28, 2016 by probad

[winchesterdelta1]

i have no idea what you're talking about, you must have a different definition of what touching the boom to the receptacle means.

 

 

here is your problem, you think it's supposed to be "good enough" that you simply give some casual attempt and crumple on the ground to cry on the forums when met with difficulty. sorry not sorry that not all things in this world are designed to gratify you with success within the first 3 tries like so many other computer games would have you believe.

 

i assure you with enough practice aar in dcs is nothing short of trivial.

 

 

You are talking crap... This refueling shit in a F-15 in DCS is really hard. Especially since 1.5. I also have been trying and trying without success. At this point i think i'm retarded because can not do it at all.

[Stuge]

There was, at least at some point, a bug where the host of a multiplayer game could not connect to the refueling boom with F-15.

 

Excluding this bug, refueling is really straightforward. Just fly into the position indicated by the lights in the bottom of tanker fuselage and keep it there for a few seconds and you have a connect.

 

If you're unable to keep it perfectly centered with all lights middle green for 3 seconds, it's just a lack of finesse in your flight inputs ---> practice more.

 

Once connected, you have more tolerance for movement. Still, if you lose your focus you will drift away and disconnect ;)

[GGTharos]

It requires flying good formation, which is pretty much correct. You also need to have your stick set up correctly so that you can make small inputs.

 

From there on you are required to be able to fly to and keep your position within a few feet of the center of the pattern.

 

You are talking crap... This refueling shit in a F-15 in DCS is really hard. Especially since 1.5. I also have been trying and trying without success. At this point i think i'm retarded because can not do it at all.

[HarpO74]

i have no idea what you're talking about, you must have a different definition of what touching the boom to the receptacle means.

 

 

here is your problem, you think it's supposed to be "good enough" that you simply give some casual attempt and crumple on the ground to cry on the forums when met with difficulty. sorry not sorry that not all things in this world are designed to gratify you with success within the first 3 tries like so many other computer games would have you believe.

 

i assure you with enough practice aar in dcs is nothing short of trivial.

 

I'm sorry probad if I've done something to upset you... but with all due respect I've been flying sims since the days of the C64 and ACE. My current pilot has just over 253 hours in the 15 with some 162 landings. I believe this is sufficient enough for me to say I have more stick time than dick time. I don't post much on the forums because I don't feel the need to. I like to go away and figure problems out on my own. Comments like yours, just make real paying people want to stay away from the forums.

 

But in this case wincherstadelta1 is right. Ever since 1.5, AAR has been a complete disaster.

 

1, Aircraft don't detonate like a New Years Eve firecracker with a bump on the boom at half a knot closure rate. You will incur damage, but the firecracker stuff is just shit!

 

2. I'm reasonably certain someone around here has actual boom time and will confirm that you shouldn't have to sit perfectly stable, with no flight corrections, dead in the middle of the boom zone for 3 full seconds before a boomie will plug you.

 

3. Anyone who thinks AAR currently in the F-15 is a piece of cake or trivial, I call "bullshit", and YouTube videos flying inverted hookups don't prove anything except that the flight modeling is wrong.

 

4. AAR should be achievable without the player being some kind of immortal god.

 

5. Any paying customer of this system should have the ability to come and post their experiences without being attacked.

[Stuge]

In DCS you have to compensate for the boom operator being a drunkard :) that said, keeping perfect formation for 3 seconds is a skill any real life fighter pilot should be capable of. Thus, I don't see the skill requirement unreasonable in any way...

 

I'm not even that great with formation flight, no way I could fly with an aerobatic team right off the bat. And my total sim time I would very roughly estimate 10000 hours.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stuge

[HarpO74]

I have a 30 sec video of my latest attempt. Its 9.7 MB. Happy to email to anyone who care to take a look. I think it proves how it's broken. The boom moves down to make the connection and then it's fire cracker time. I don't think I'm unstable or too far from where I'm supposed to be.

[VTJS17_Fire]

AAR is busted, especially when other pilots tell you this is way harder in DCS than in real life.

It's not busted, it's just not easy.

 

Of course is this harder than in real life, because you don't have the feeling for acceleration and deceleration. In real life, your butt tells you a lot in the way of flying an aircraft. And you are not limited to a little monitor and a narrow FOV. All that makes it harder to simulate it. ;)

[ebabil]

since it is harder than real life, at least there should be an option for those who don't want to deal with these difficulties, like speed and alt fixing like a 737 autopilot. or some pop up screens that shows tanker's belly signal lights much closer.

[winchesterdelta1]

I think fixing that drunktard boom operator should be sufficient. I think if that is fixed no extra aids are needed. It''s nice to have a challenge.. But right now it's a bit to much i think. But we should not worry. I'm confident ED will fix this eventually. Right now the map is to small anyway to do some nice missions where refueling is required.

[IAB98]

I was under the impression that you were supposed to use the auto pilot stuff in the Eagle. Please someone correct me if im wrong but engage attitude and altitude hold then approach the tanker. I personally think its like riding a bike. Not too hard

[Capn kamikaze]

I'm certain something has recently changed with the refueling, it seems now that the tanker often does not want to connect the boom even if you're in position, when it does it also seems to have a very very small tolerance for movement, not only is the boom operator a bit of a nob, but also the boom itself does not seem to be modeled correctly, the upper yellow and red regions of the boom should feed out before a disconnect occurs, at the moment, that occurs at the green/upper yellow boundary, which means we have half the telescoping range we should have, which obviously makes it unrealistic.