26-J39 Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I have to agree with the OP, it just doesn't look right at all. Spring and dampening rates look too stiff and when the airframe gets light on her feet it's like the aircraft is dancing or bouncing from left to right on the main gear. Just my opinion however. :)
JaNk0 Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Most individuals will start to take off in an improper manner in the MiG-21. It is imperative that you pull back and lift the nose, otherwise the bouncing will be excessive. Do note that the suspension system is being tweaked constantly. The best take-off video made public so far is this one by UVP-CZ. AFAIK the MiG-21 is being flown by a former MiG-21 pilot. Starts at 2:52. Out of curiosity, did the UVP pilot say anything about it? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Grizzly1606688174 Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) I still think it looks overdone. Like there is a bit too much mass moving too fast from one side to another. That vid when seen outside from the exterior, it looks like the Mig doesnt wheigh anything while doing it. But I dont know really, I should trust you guys.. ^^ But nice video. Dude knows what he is doing! Edited September 3, 2014 by <Grizzly>
Mrgud Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 The best take-off video made public so far is this one by UVP-CZ. AFAIK the MiG-21 is being flown by a former MiG-21 pilot. Starts at 2:52. Really nice handling. It's a shame that subtitles are not in English. I can understand just a little bit, but not much.
Muppetlord Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 In the video that Cobra linked it looked pretty good. We'll just have to learn to do it right.
Buznee Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 I have to agree with the OP, it just doesn't look right at all. Spring and dampening rates look too stiff and when the airframe gets light on her feet it's like the aircraft is dancing or bouncing from left to right on the main gear. Just my opinion however. :) agreed., especially when the nose wheel comes off the ground. I wonder if the main wings are tip stalling causing the roll attitude to jitter back and forth onto each gear.. I guess we shall see
Grizzly1606688174 Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Here's a bit of comparison from outside views.. Look here.. Now look here.. (4:05) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCZIdloZu8g&feature=player_detailpage#t=245 And finally and especially.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TC6mE5bNwI8#t=47 I have not seen that extreme jitter like the DCS version, in any RL mig-21 movieclip. It will be interesting to see what the final version will come up with. But they look very smooth on takeoff in real life. Edited September 3, 2014 by <Grizzly>
Dirty Rotten Flieger Posted September 18, 2014 Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) Here is inside the cockpit of real Mig21 on touch down... looks a bit lively. The sketchy takeoff and landings are my favorite thing about this plane to tell the truth. The high landing speeds must be very intimidating when you first try it. If the instability is technically a little over done it may still convey the overall impression a real world pilot gets when he hits the runway at over 330km/h in this tiny jet. Maybe we just need some more practice. Rebound damping on the main gear shock absorbers doesn't seem to be working as well as it does in some of the footage I have to admit. Edited September 18, 2014 by Dirty Rotten Flieger
Harle Posted September 18, 2014 Posted September 18, 2014 In the game, runways are made of square concrete block things(not a native english speaker). In that video the runway is smooth, thats why the mig runs steady. On runways made of concrete, i bet the ride is bumpy as hell :) I second that. Most runways here on Sakhalin are made of such slabs with grass growing in between the seams.
Corrigan Posted September 18, 2014 Posted September 18, 2014 I seriously doubt that's modelled in the sim. Besides, there are plenty of flat asphalt runways in the game, like at Batumi. I dare say the MiG bounces just as much there. Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5
Grizzly1606688174 Posted September 18, 2014 Posted September 18, 2014 If the real life MiG has such a heavyduty landing gear, designed for really poor runways - I don't want to see this DCS MiG on a really poor runway.... I sure hope they give us a comment on this someday, or tweak it, just a bit..
Justin Case Posted September 18, 2014 Posted September 18, 2014 Here is inside the cockpit of real Mig21 on touch down... looks a bit lively. The sketchy takeoff and landings are my favorite thing about this plane to tell the truth. The high landing speeds must be very intimidating when you first try it. If the instability is technically a little over done it may still convey the overall impression a real world pilot gets when he hits the runway at over 330km/h in this tiny jet. Maybe we just need some more practice. Rebound damping on the main gear shock absorbers doesn't seem to be working as well as it does in some of the footage I have to admit. Yes but that video was shot with a small camera held up at half an arm lenght... http://www.masterarms.se A Swedish Combat Flight Simulator Community.
Tetra Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Here's a bit of comparison from outside views.. Look here.. Now look here.. (4:05) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCZIdloZu8g&feature=player_detailpage#t=245 And finally and especially.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TC6mE5bNwI8#t=47 I have not seen that extreme jitter like the DCS version, in any RL mig-21 movieclip. It will be interesting to see what the final version will come up with. But they look very smooth on takeoff in real life. Yeah there certainly seems to be considerably less jittering in the real aircraft on take-off. Am quite happy to accept it if the simulation is correct, but from all videos I have seen so far the real Mig seems to be much more stable. Would very much like to know if the way the sim behaves now is intended/correct or not? My Mods: Radar Warning Receiver Audio Expansion G-Breath Sound Mod
Dolphin887 Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 the more you murmur... the more our kids get a chance to fly this damn thing and we don't :( Bill, you made me laugh :lol: Anyway, suspension is among the highest priorities to me. I was never completely satisfied how suspension behaves. Power through superb knowledge, training and teamwork. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Justin Case Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Anyway, suspension is among the highest priorities to me. I was never completely satisfied how suspension behaves. Nice to hear! http://www.masterarms.se A Swedish Combat Flight Simulator Community.
159th_Viper Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 The high landing speeds must be very intimidating when you first try it. If the instability is technically a little over done it may still convey the overall impression a real world pilot gets when he hits the runway at over 330km/h in this tiny jet. That's the beauty of this Jet - you only need about 600m to bring her to a stop from a high-speed landing so don't be scared to bring her in fast. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Kuky Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 I think what is wrong with ground handling is that as the plane goes faster, same as with fast cars, the un-eveness of the road is less noticeable because at high speed the wheel's shock absorbers are absorbing most of the impact of the tire with bumbs on the road... so same should be with aircraft on take-off and landing. When slow the plane should be wobling noticably, but as speed increases (I think 100Km and more) the wobling should be reduced. Most of you drive cars... pay attention as you drive really slow... you will fee every bump on the road, even if the road seems perfectly straight and even... but as soon as you pick up some speed, the car is driving much calmer. So in short, very small bumps (like parts on runways where conrete blocks join) should hardly be felt at high speed, but large very gradual un-even surface is more felt at high speed (that's because the impact frequency of the bump is very high for small bumps and very high for large gradual "bumps" - think of the runway as very long wavelength looking surface) I can't really put the right words how to describe this :( PC specs: Windows 11 Home | Asus TUF Gaming B850-Plus WiFi | AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D + LC 360 AIO | MSI RTX 5090 LC 360 AIO | 55" Samsung Odyssey Gen 2 | 64GB PC5-48000 DDR5 | 1TB M2 SSD for OS | 2TB M2 SSD for DCS | NZXT C1000 Gold ATX 3.1 1000W | TM Cougar Throttle, Floor Mounted MongoosT-50 Grip on TM Cougar board, MFG Crosswind, Track IR
Dejjvid Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 The shock absorbers are too stiff, they must be softened, and travel increased a tiny bit. Right now the rebound effect is way to strong, that's why you roll on takeoff. i7 8700K | GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB RAM | 500GB M.2 SSD | TIR5 w/ Trackclip Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Rudder [sigpic]http://www.132virtualwing.org[/sigpic]
Grizzly1606688174 Posted September 26, 2014 Posted September 26, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hpInBIsNeuo#t=2179 Just a bit more evidence to the nay-sayers. No rolly-rolly bumpy tipping plane on takeoff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hpInBIsNeuo#t=1655 Or landing.. And notice how the nose stays up due to windspeeds. Not engine thrust. 1
CoBlue Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Bill, you made me laugh :lol: Anyway, suspension is among the highest priorities to me. I was never completely satisfied how suspension behaves. Hi, Have the suspension issue been addressed or is it still the same? i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR.
Golo Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Hi, Have the suspension issue been addressed or is it still the same? DCS World 1.2.11 Change Log DCS MiG-21bis Overhauled Gear & Suspension to yield more stable taxiing, landing and takeoff behaviour.
Art-J Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Golo, there were still some problems in 1.2.12. Yesterday I did a flight with 4 UB pods and 80% of fuel (to check whether UB animation bug is still there - yep it is). Landed a bit overweight - with empty pods and 2200 l of fuel. Didn't notice the infamous pull to the left during the roll, nor the leaning to the sides when the airplane was standing still. Today, however, did a flight with "light" config (~ 1000 l before takeoff, clean). No pulling, but the damn leaning was there - at least before takeoff, because after landing it disappeared too :D. More testing will be necessary, but it's such a difficult issue to track down. Edited December 23, 2014 by Art-J i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.
Golo Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Now that you mentioned it I recall this leaning happening too sometimes, but regarding the rolls and bumps its all OK for me now.
CoBlue Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 DCS World 1.2.11 Change Log DCS MiG-21bis Overhauled Gear & Suspension to yield more stable taxiing, landing and takeoff behaviour. Thank you! That convinced me.....Mig-21Bis bought :thumbup: :lol: i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR.
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