cichlidfan Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Why is this thread here? My guess is the folks at NP don't read this forum. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
7rooper Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Either way all these commercial headtracking systems somehow involve a camera visually detecting either your head or anything mounted to it. The way I see it environmental lighting will always be a major factor of this design. Why aren't we using motion detectors? Smartphones have it for what.. 6 years already? Given that a 8mm thick iPhone has one built in, you might as well put one in a device the size of a modern hearing aid. Combine it with bluetooth earplugs and you have a tiny headtracker with no wires and no interference from surrounding lights. I really don't see why this isn't developed and in mass production already.. But then I wouldn't know where to start when I'd have to construct it myself so who am I to speak. :) You have come with a great idea. That's the real solution. No stupid lights or hats on your head without the problem or interference with other ligh sources. No isolation of the real world with VR headsets without having to dump your home build pit. Very neat... My rig specs: Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz // Corsair 16GB DDR3 // MoBo Asus Z87K // HDD 1TB 7200RPM // eVGA Nvidia GTX 760GT 2GB DDR5 // LG 3D 47" 1920x1080 // Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS // Saitek Combat Pro Pedals // Thrustmaster MFD Cougar pack // PS3 Eye + FTNOIR
Blacknemisis Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Only problem I have with Tir is the wires. I have the 5 with the pro clip and the wire gets tangle with other wires. They should have come out with a wireless pro clip by now. If they do im jumping on it.
aeliusg Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 You guys are behind the game and ahead of the curve here. TrackIR is about as fast, accurate, and as low-latency as anything else out there. IMUs can't touch it in accuracy, and high-res stereoscopic camera arrays still can't beat it in simplicity and speed. Open-source trackers don't have the efficiency you get with onboard processing, and I won't talk about NaturalPoint's business practices. There's a reason why Oculus had to go to using what is basically TrackIR on steroids for 6 DOF. Only thing better would be some kind of active lidar, but why do all that when you can detect a couple of LEDs? Multi-purpose sensor suites like the Kinect, Leap Motion, etc. will likely be the solution going forward, but we're not there yet.
WildBillKelsoe Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 fret not.. oculus consumer is said to come 2015... THEN.... TRACKIR has my permission to DIE.. AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
cichlidfan Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 fret not.. oculus consumer is said to come 2015... Unless they decide to release DK3. ;) ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
ED Team NineLine Posted October 1, 2014 ED Team Posted October 1, 2014 Only problem I have with Tir is the wires. I have the 5 with the pro clip and the wire gets tangle with other wires. They should have come out with a wireless pro clip by now. If they do im jumping on it. I have strapped my cables to my headset cable, I have no issues with tangling... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Scoggs Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 I like my TrackIR 5, except the trackclip broke and I havent bought a new one since it is so expensive for a device that probably costs less than a dollar to make... Oh and I have to recenter every 5 minutes(please pm me a way to fix that!) I think moving to a kinect wouldnt be so good because of latency. At the same time NO shpuld have either made a new version or made their current device cheaper. It has been 5 years or so since the Tir 5 came out. My SpecsAsus Maximus Hero IX Z270 i7 7700k @ 4.7GHz 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ 3700MHz DDR4 EVGA RTX 2080Ti Samsung 960 Evo 1TB M.2 NVME SSD EVGA SuperNOVA 1200 P2 Acer XB270HU 144Hz @ 1440p (IPS) Valve Index OOOOhhh, I wish I had the Alpha of a Hornet!
Aeons Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 love my trackIR, wouldn't fly without it. Had no problems with mine for many years. initial cost is high but if you fly sims a lot its definitely worth the investment.
Red Dragon-DK Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) I love my TrackIR. Have use the same one (4) for over 6 years now. Never broke and always function as I like. I will NOT buy oculus because it´s one to one movement, where TrackIR I can setup as I fit to my need´s. An other important thing is, I think the weight in time will curse damage to the neck and I cant see the keyboard. Yes TIR is old, but in my opinion it´s still be best and is not outdated, just because a new hyped player is on the marked. :worthy: Edited October 1, 2014 by Red Dragon-DK Intel I7 4770K, Evga 1080 FE, win10 64Pro, 32GB ram, TracIR 5, Hotas Warthog, MFD Cougar x2, MFG Crosswind
galevsky06 Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Oculus does not provide the ideal solution for hardcore gamers nowadays. We will see in the future how it goes. What about actual HOTAS, MFD and cockpits ? Could we use both ? How ? Until now TIR does the job, and does it very well (accurate, light, reliable, fully-compatible with other devices....). TIR v2/v3 PRO/v5 owner who can't fly without.
TurboHog Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 FacetrackNoIR is the way to go! :thumbup: Isn't it? :noexpression: No? :( Ok I'll leave... :cry: -- Properly tweaked it is actually quite good. Did you notice any bad habits in this video? -- 'Frett'
zaelu Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 I've been long user of Freetrack, then tried to use FaceTrack and others. Finally bought TiR 5 as was tired of low FPS of Freetrack orFaceTrack (I have good camera anyway). Difference is clearly - TIR annihilates any other solution I tried. It just works as it should - smooth, precisely and great. What camera you have? I have Sony PS3 Eye and I have above 60FPS depending of the settings I choose. I choose 112FPS for example and it stays there no matter what. Yes there are few quirks... but it is working without fail for years and I saved myself from paying a monopoly "biznis" TIR does not annihilate anything... is just an alternative to Freetrack or Facetrack etc. No fuss... no complications... No hardware building... no Software tweaking... No 160Euros... If is a good deal to you... perfect.:thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A, Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least
outlawal2 Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Hmmm... Track IR is DEAD .. (because of Oculus?) Sounds a LOT like the following to me.. Cars are DEAD because we will all have jetpacks. (Stated in the 50's) A-10 is GONE because the F-35 will replace it. (I think that plane has been brought back to life at least 3 times now) PCs are dead becasue of IPADS and consoles.. (Give me a friggin BREAK on that one! LOL But folks keep saying it like it is true..) Point is don't throw your Track IR in the trash can just yet, the Oculus Rift looks awesome, and I believe it will be a big game changer, but there are a lot of things that we don't yet know about the OR and could completely change WHAT we think about it. Besides, it isn't even RELEASED yet.. Who knows when it will become mainstream? (and for the record I love my track IR... No issues here as long as you understand how it works and what the limitations are...) "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
McBlemmen Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) I have strapped my cables to my headset cable, I have no issues with tangling... Not everyone wants to have their tir clip on all the time though. My headset cable is about 5 meters and i often use it from my couch to watch movies or w/e The one problem i have with track clip pro is that i often have trouble looking at the bottom left , lfor example looking at the radio panel in the A10 Edited October 1, 2014 by McBlemmen
galevsky06 Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 So what ? Don't strap the cables, unclip it at will. and take the risk of tangling. You can't have all advantages together, boy !
FubarBundy Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Somehow this thread reminds me of how NASA spent a fortune on developing a pen that works in space... the Russians just used a pencil. I love my track IR despite all its quirks and "features" :music_whistling:
ricktoberfest Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Somehow this thread reminds me of how NASA spent a fortune on developing a pen that works in space... the Russians just used a pencil. I love my track IR despite all its quirks and "features" :music_whistling: Don't try and fix what ain't broke. It's not a monopoly when you can use freetrack and facetracknoir (I use) for free. If I had the extra cash I would probably get a trackir. It is better. No solution will be perfect but try dogfighting using a hat on a joystick to look around!! And it's not really more expensive than an average joystick (cheaper than many in fact) but adds so much to flying, racing, or shooting games. I use my facetracknoir for FSX, xplane, DCS, war thunder, and pretty much any game that supports head movement.
agrasyuk Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Somehow this thread reminds me of how NASA spent a fortune on developing a pen that works in space... the Russians just used a pencil. Every time I read this line I cringe. Both NASA and USSR space agency realized pretty quick that conductive dust from pencil's core blown around in the ship is not a very good thing for all the electronic devices on board (you know, devices that make sure humans keep breathing and can get back home safely). Russians were buying american pen until they had their own solution. And development didn't cost that big of a fortune, its only a friggen pen after all, not very complex machinery. As far as OP and the topic, I don't get the rant. Several ways to DIY head tracking for those on budget, and possibility to solve problem with cash for those lucky to have it. Yes it pissed me off that my pro clip broke within first month (duct tape and rubber bands for the rescue) but other then that my TIR4 is still working. Anton. My pit build thread . Simple and cheap UFC project
neuwb Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Naturalpoint basically own the headtracking market for now and it shows. TrackIR is a cool product and everything, but the price is still kinda ridiculous for what it is and the limitations are fairly obvious. They don't seem to be interested in innovating either :\
MegOhm_SD Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Only problem I have with Tir is the wires. I have the 5 with the pro clip and the wire gets tangle with other wires. They should have come out with a wireless pro clip by now. If they do im jumping on it. Wireless TIR is old news. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1616085&postcount=7 I have been using my wireless TIR 5 Proclip (origonal) with my wirelss headphones for about 4 years now with no problems. Easy conversion. See how at this link http://sdsquad.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=58d22c32a53fbda54d5b7327aae810cb&topic=2403.msg2467#msg2467 Edited October 1, 2014 by MegOhm_SD Cooler Master HAF XB EVO , ASUS P8Z77-V, i7-3770K @ 4.6GHz, Noctua AC, 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro, EVGA 1080TI 11GB, 2 Samsung 840 Pro 540GB SSDs Raid 0, 1TB HDD, EVGA SuperNOVA 1300W PS, G930 Wireless SS Headset, TrackIR5/Wireless Proclip, TM Warthog, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, 75" Samsung 4K QLED, HP Reverb G2, Win 10
Chief1942 Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Natural Point has a monopoly in head tracking just as ED has a monoply in hardcore flight Sims. NOT! There are alternatives to those who find fault with either product and they are free to purchase what they want. You get what you pay for!I agree that the TrackIR is relatively expensive for what it is, but then the market for that product is VERY limited and therefore new product development is very risky in this ever changing world. We who are familiar with TrackIR sometime think the whole world is into it. They are not. Just those of us who enjoy a genre' that screams for headtracking. Intel i5-4690K Devil's Canyon, GForce TitanX, ASUS Z-97A MB, 16GB GDDR3 GSkill mem, Samsung SSD X3,Track IR, TM Warthog, MFG Crosswind pedals, Acer XB280HK monitor,GAMETRIX KW-908 JETSEAT
JayPee Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Somehow this thread reminds me of how NASA spent a fortune on developing a pen that works in space... the Russians just used a pencil. I love my track IR despite all its quirks and "features" :music_whistling:Or how India gets to Mars in the first attempt for 60M USD using the most robust technology. i7 4790K: 4.8GHz, 1.328V (manual) MSI GTX 970: 1,504MHz core, 1.250V, 8GHz memory
Vullcan Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) AMEN. Anyone who has used the Oculus Rift for head tracking has seen first hand how inferior Track IR is. Having used Track IR since its inception, and having explored NaturalPoints website to see their professional line of high resolution motion capture solutions, it bewilders the mind as to why they haven't developed an improvement in this arena. Oh wait, no it doesn't, they have a monopoly and they dont have to improve upon something that isnt broken (read: hasnt stopped generating them income in the consumer space). The technology is there for them to bring an affordable headtracking camera solution (that does not require the user to wear anything) and would have a greater field of view to boot; you know, something that would actually command the $150 price tag. This was a frustration for me which began around TrackIR 4, reinforced itself when the Kinect came out and is finally subsiding now that the Rift is so close to release. Rest easy guys, the Rift is the solution to Track IR's shortcomings. While it will undoubtedly include many shortcomings of its own, it is far more likely to be frequently firmware patched and refreshed to improve usability and provide a overall more enjoyable simming experience. Until then may we begrudgingly fumble with and be ultra careful with handling our track clip pro's, made of sugar glass. Edited October 1, 2014 by Vullcan 1
aeliusg Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 AMEN. Anyone who has used the Oculus Rift for head tracking has seen first hand how inferior Track IR is. Having used Track IR since its inception, and having explored NaturalPoints website to see their professional line of high resolution motion capture solutions, it bewilders the mind as to why they haven't developed an improvement in this arena. Oh wait, no it doesn't, they have a monopoly and they dont have to improve upon something that isnt broken (read: hasnt stopped generating them income in the consumer space). The technology is there for them to bring an affordable headtracking camera solution (that does not require the user to wear anything) and would have a greater field of view to boot; you know, something that would actually command the $150 price tag. This was a frustration for me which began around TrackIR 4, reinforced itself when the Kinect came out and is finally subsiding now that the Rift is so close to release. Rest easy guys, the Rift is the solution to Track IR's shortcomings. While it will undoubtedly include many shortcomings of its own, it is far more likely to be frequently firmware patched and refreshed to improve usability and provide a overall more enjoyable simming experience. Until then may we begrudgingly fumble with and be ultra careful with handling our track clip pro's, made of sugar glass. The Rift uses the same solution as the TrackIR. 6 DOF given by tracking a set pattern of discrete points in space, in its case supplemented with an onboard IMU. It also has a camera that you have to place in a proper position at a proper distance for optimal usage. It's really not that revolutionary or different in terms of head tracking.
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