DCS: F-5E!

[ThorBrasil]

[ame]

[/ame]

[Foul Ole Ron]

About time for the F-5E to get it's own sub-forum with a release not too far away?

[dartuil]

Two more weeks and we will be flying F-5E.

[RNeves]

Finally we'll have a rival for the MiG 21Bis...

 

Will be nice to explore the stregths and weaknesses of each one of them!

[dartuil]

I believe F-5E is more agile but Mig-21 get speed faster.

[Express0083]

I cant wait!!!

[MAD-MM]

How can the F5 match with the MIG, the version of the F5 is much superior while later version in Radar technologies.

The F5 is in advanced position before the MIG ever see him...

[WinterH]

Detection and locking ranges are similar, MiG has SARH while F-5 has two heaters. I don't expect radar gap to be nearly as much as people believe, it is up close the MiG will be in bigger trouble.

[mattebubben]

Detection and locking ranges are similar, MiG has SARH while F-5 has two heaters. I don't expect radar gap to be nearly as much as people believe, it is up close the MiG will be in bigger trouble.

 

 

Well the F-5E has many radar Advantages.

 

First it does have a slight detection range advantage.

 

But that is not the greatest advantage of the APQ-159 (the radar of the F-5E variant we are getting)

 

is that it is not fixed.

 

So it can be turned Side/Side as well as up and down.

 

While the Mig-21s radar is Fixed (with very minor tilting up/down)

 

This gives the F-5E a huge advantage when it comes to situational advantage as it can scan a much wider area where as a Mig-21 flying straight only scans a very narrow cone infront / Slightly above it.

 

And also the APQ-159 is a Pulse-Doppler so im unsure but its very possible it has some Look-Down Ability where as the Mig-21 is very much blind in that compartment.

 

It also has a Auto lock feature in dogfight so it can automatically lock up a target infront of it (To give accurate Range / Target info)

 

And in all the APQ-159 is a much more advanced radar then the RP-22 of the Mig-21Bis is.

 

And Coupled with the RWR of the F-5E it will have a tremendous advantage when it comes to situational advantage.

 

really the only advantage the Mig-21Bis has that is radar related (its not a part of the radar but works together with the radar)

 

Is the abillity to IFF targets (which if i understand correctly the F-5E can not)

 

And this while maby not as important in real life will be pretty major when it comes to many MP DCS servers.

 

But on servers where both sides are not operating the same aircraft

types that will not be as big of an advantage.

 

So while it theory the detection range advantage is not a game changer (even if the APQ has around 7-10km better detection range)

everything else when it comes to the Radar of the F-5E gives it a significant advantage in many if not most Radar related areas.

[pepin1234]

The Mig is an interceptor, a 2nd generation fighter adapted to be in 3th generation family. As interceptor designed he have nothing to do in a face to face fight. The F-5 should come first and the Mig should wait down, to climb and touch and run.

 

The Vietnam Migs used very well this tactic. In some cases they made ground forces movements to trigger the interception to the USAF CAS support. Such tactics was not well made in Syrian, Egyptians Migs.

 

Anyway the greatest advantage in radar is not that big to get the air superiority vs Mig.

Edited April 29, 2016 by pepin1234

[Kev2go]

The Mig is an interceptor, a 2nd generation fighter adapted to be in 3th generation family. As interceptor designed he have nothing to do in a face to face fight. The F-5 should come first and the Mig should wait down, to climb and touch and run.

 

The Vietnam Migs used very well this tactic. Is some cases they made ground forces movements to trigger the interception to the USAF CAS support. Such tactics was not well made in Syrian, Egyptians Migs.

 

Anyway the greatest advantage in radar is not that big to get the air superiority vs Mig.

 

thats not quite true, late in its life the mig21 role changed. It may have been designed with interception in mind by the late stages of its life it evolved to become better capable of performing strike, and expected to perform WVR dogfights, especially by export nations.

Soviets too as a interim soltion kept the mig21bis around into the mid 80s so they would have something to dogfight the american F16 , until the mig29 was around in significant numbers, and could officially replace it.

 

example of a western aircraft changing roles would be American F100 super sabre. It was designed as a air superiority fighter, but was shortly was relegated & repurposed for cas and strike duties with the D model as newer aircraft took the role of air supremacy. F-104, replaced then by the F4 phantom.

 

 

for all intents and purposes F5E will better suited for most players in DCS

 

WE dont have simulated ground controllers intercept guidance, therefore the whole interceptor aspect of migs real life aspect is essentially null. Not to mention many export nations have used mig21 as a fighter not necessarily with soviet Intercept doctrine.

 

I would imagine most people dont like to be a "robot" behind the cockpit being subject to GCI orders, most people like majority of real life pilots prefer autonomy and being able to operate independently.although to be fair just because you can operate independantly doesnt mean western pilots , are limited to just thier onboard radars they too would have support from either Radars, or AWACS to assist them if need be.

 

So i say the aircraft that can operate independently with better radar & rwr , whilst having access to thier own ground Radar or AWACS for support ( but not being subject to it like soviet doctrine ) will have the bigger advantage.

 

 

now while F5E does have better technology, the Mig21 offer higher missile capacity, and a more powerful power to weight ratio. Mig21 does boast a higher top speed. Mach 2.0 vs mach 1.6 of the F5, as well as a better climb rate.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

oh as a sidenote

 

 

the F5E does have a IFF system,

 

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/northrop/f-5tigerii/t-o-1f-5e-1-f-5e-flight-manual.html

 

page 39-40

 

the manual shows a IFF controls section on the right panels

Edited April 28, 2016 by Kev2go

[mattebubben]

oh as a sidenote

 

 

the F5E does have a IFF system,

 

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/northrop/f-5tigerii/t-o-1f-5e-1-f-5e-flight-manual.html

 

page 39-40

 

the manual shows a IFF controls section on the right panels

 

Yes but is not that just a Transponder.

 

To allow others to IFF the F-5E.

 

Rather then a IFF Interregator to allow the F-5E to Interrogate the IFF transponders of other targets.

 

So While the F-5E can be checked by other aircraft if its a Friend or Foe (as it has a Nato IFF Transponder) it cant interrogate targets like the Mig-21Bis can.

[Kev2go]

Yes but is not that just a Transponder.

 

To allow others to IFF the F-5E.

 

Rather then a IFF Interregator to allow the F-5E to Interrogate the IFF transponders of other targets.

 

So While the F-5E can be checked by other aircraft if its a Friend or Foe (as it has a Nato IFF Transponder) it cant interrogate targets like the Mig-21Bis can.

 

ah i see.

[Ramsay]

the F5E does have a IFF system,

...

the manual shows a IFF controls section on the right panels

The F-5E can respond to IFF requests (like the A-10C, etc. can), it can not interrogate radar contacts to find out if they are friend or foe.

 

IFF/SIF SYSTEM AN/APX-72 OR AN/APX-101

 

The IFF/SIF system (figure 1-61) is an airborne pulse transponder which receives coded interrogations from surface or airborne radar (IFF) and automatically transmits coded selective identification (SIF). It is not capable of interrogating other stations.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Ramsay

[FZG_Immel]

just pruchased the Gazelle ! Come on Belsimtek ! Your products are the best ü take my money !!!

[=Mac=]

I just purchased the Gazelle.

 

The helicopter gods have graced us with three now.

 

BS: Wow!

Huey: Holy Sh?t!

Gazelle: OMG, it twitches like a dragonfly.

 

I'm not supposed to be a rotor-head but it appears that's what I fly best.

 

Go figure.

[Angelthunder]

With the Gazelle being released today,i expect the F-5 Tiger II to drop in DCS World by the end of May.:thumbup:

[dali]

http://www.belsimtek.com/news/1634/

[Kev2go]

http://www.belsimtek.com/news/1634/

 

already posted before.

[mattebubben]

Much like automotive racing, the skill of the pilot matters more than the performance of the machine.

 

A PAF Sabre shot down an Indian Mig-21 during the second Indo-Pakistani war.

 

 

And the Mig-17s shot down a number of F-4s and F-105s (aswell as other US aircraft)

 

during the Vietnam war.

 

So tactics and pilot skill can very often trump aircraft performance.

 

And the F-5E is far more even with the Mig-21 when it comes to performance then any of those mentioned.

 

At low speeds the Mig-21 is not even ALOT faster then the F-5E.

 

Even if it still has the acceleration advantage down low the top speeds are not as different.

 

So while the Thrust to weight and acceleration might be important in any fight i dont think the speed difference will be as much of a difference.

 

(other then giving the Mig-21 a slight edge when it comes to Pursuit or Escape)

[Stratos]

I think the F-5 will have better ergonomics and better visibility so as a dogfighter will be easier to extract all his potential. Wish Belsimtek can add some more weapons to the F-5 stable like those Mavericks and the BLU-77 Napalm canisters.

[mattebubben]

I think the F-5 will have better ergonomics and better visibility so as a dogfighter will be easier to extract all his potential. Wish Belsimtek can add some more weapons to the F-5 stable like those Mavericks and the BLU-77 Napalm canisters.

 

In a dogfight the F-5E will have an advantage in many (if not most) areas.

 

And it will have a great advantage when it comes to situational awareness.

 

As the radar has the ability to slew around giving it a much wider possible search pattern (where as the Mig-21 radar antenna is fixed)

 

And you also have a good rwr that lets you ID aircraft (Radar) types and tell the direction (and roughly how close/far away they are)

 

Those two points together with Decent cockpit visibility gives the F-5E a decent edge when it comes to combat.

 

As you are more likely to know were the enemy is and have a higher chance of finding them then a Mig-21 does.

[Cool Breeze]

I think the F-5 will have better ergonomics and better visibility so as a dogfighter will be easier to extract all his potential. Wish Belsimtek can add some more weapons to the F-5 stable like those Mavericks and the BLU-77 Napalm canisters.

I defiantly like the idea of adding a bit of precision air to ground with the maverick. Not having the napalm however is something ED must solve with their game engine first. From the little I know flames are very hard to recreate. Recreating that rolling, roiling effect I shudder just thinking of the CPU cycles that would cost. I just don't know if we will see it in the near future.

[RNeves]

I think the F-5 will have better ergonomics and better visibility so as a dogfighter will be easier to extract all his potential. Wish Belsimtek can add some more weapons to the F-5 stable like those Mavericks and the BLU-77 Napalm canisters.

 

I don't think the AN/APQ-159 used in the tiger II has the abality to fire the mavericks...

 

That capability was exclusive to the AN/APQ-159-1, that was used in later models IIRC...