Track replay is bugged...

[SDsc0rch]

after this latest patch (late dec2016) all of my tracks are de-syncing ----- in other words, what happens in REPLAY isn't what happened in the game ---- also, say i'm on a server and i respawn, the first jet appears and gets tracked (ie.. tacview records it) but not second third, etc

 

help?

[shagrat]

I can't tell for the Spit, but many ASM birds model engine dynamics and quirks encountered, etc.

 

Now if you record all throttle input, the same setting may or may not produce a different result through the ASM.

Same may be a factor in ground, wind, temperature.

If you have dynamic weather on, it will definitely break a track over time.

Yet, the more natural and dynamic system modeling gets, the more flawed is the track concept.

They need to come up with something different.

 

At the moment tracks are helpful in debugging, as they contain inputs, parameters etc. for analysis by ED.

 

Ah, and don't change your input axis in-between track recording and replay! ;)

[Capn kamikaze]

Maybe instead of tracking inputs, track effects, the position, speed, orientation, and when you fire/release a weapon, and track that for all weapons and AI, force kills, so if a missile hit a target, force the hit to account for any errors.

[xxJohnxx]

Maybe instead of tracking inputs' date=' track effects, the position, speed, orientation, and when you fire/release a weapon, and track that for all weapons and AI, force kills, so if a missile hit a target, force the hit to account for any errors.[/quote']

 

Well, probably not so easy to change that. The current system tracks only tracks input, with which it can re-run the simulation. For the simulator it is just like you fly the mission again.

 

If you where to record all the parameters of all units (which is possible as we see with TacView), you would then have to re-write the whole system to not run of a simulation but instead of the saved data, probably requiring a whole new system to do so.

 

While a better track replay system would be nice, I believe that there are more important things that need focus first.

[BitMaster]

I think from what I know about computing and single and double precision in calculating it cant be done the way it is done..and it would be damn hard to impossible to do so, unless you rent a DC and have it calculate it with double precision...at a fraction of the speed.

 

Assumptions, as close as they are, never hit the nail and the further down you walk that road the more it differs...and it all started with one BIT being 0 instead of 1.

 

 

Devs may correct me, this is how I explain this to myself why it behaves this way.

[too-cool]

Well, probably not so easy to change that. The current system tracks only tracks input, with which it can re-run the simulation. For the simulator it is just like you fly the mission again.

 

If you where to record all the parameters of all units (which is possible as we see with TacView), you would then have to re-write the whole system to not run of a simulation but instead of the saved data, probably requiring a whole new system to do so.

 

While a better track replay system would be nice, I believe that there are more important things that need focus first.

So how many more years before this is important enough to be a point of focus? Borrow the recorder IL2 1946 has. Surely they can get it to work in DCS and it not take years to do. TC

 

Edit: What I really should have said is if you are not going to fix it then take it completely out of the sim, who knows it may resolve alot of issue being experience with the sim now. It shouldn't take years to fix this issue, that's why I say if you are not going to fix it (not years from now) take it completely out.

Edited January 3, 2017 by too-cool

[Nate--IRL--]

.......... that's why I say if you are not going to fix it (not years from now) take it completely out.

 

I Don't believe it is fixable, but it also is useful for troubleshooting.

 

Nate

[amazingme]

..and no use of TrackIR either..it also breaks the tracks.

[Texac]

Edit: What I really should have said is if you are not going to fix it then take it completely out of the sim, who knows it may resolve alot of issue being experience with the sim now. It shouldn't take years to fix this issue, that's why I say if you are not going to fix it (not years from now) take it completely out.

 

Why should they take it completely out if they won't fix it?

 

For some people it kinda works for an hour and then you randomly crash into the ground which is still quite useful for me and a few other people. It's still possible to review an Air to Air Refueling, a Landing or some maneuvers.

 

If you don't want to use it or if it doesn't work for you then simply don't use it instead of taking it out while other people can still get something out of it.

[too-cool]

Why should they take it completely out if they won't fix it?

 

For some people it kinda works for an hour and then you randomly crash into the ground which is still quite useful for me and a few other people. It's still possible to review an Air to Air Refueling, a Landing or some maneuvers.

 

If you don't want to use it or if it doesn't work for you then simply don't use it instead of taking it out while other people can still get something out of it.

If it's a matter of setting then yes keep it, but if not then it should be fixed or removed, after all it's a feature of the sim and it should work for everyone not just a few. To my knowledge ED has never said if it's fixable or not, at least let the customer know one way or the other and not just allow the term: we should be focusing on something more important, back to my point, when will it become a point of focus for ED to fix? TC

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

i wonder how other simultations do it though...i know we are not supposed to compare simulations, but there is another ww2 aircraft simulation out there, which has this feature perfectly implemented and working...even with a rewind function....

[Cik]

it should just be removed and replaced with an ACMI system

 

if you want to record DCS just use a video recording software such as OBS

[too-cool]

it should just be removed and replaced with an ACMI system

 

if you want to record DCS just use a video recording software such as OBS

That's not a viable solution, there's nothing wrong with my equipment, it's the sim that has the problem. TC

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

it should just be removed and replaced with an ACMI system

 

if you want to record DCS just use a video recording software such as OBS

 

thats two different things...having an inbuilt trackrecording tool, which lets you watch your flights from all different angles afterwards has nothing to do with a video recording software, which you need anyway if you want to make clips...

[too-cool]

thats two different things...having an inbuilt trackrecording tool, which lets you watch your flights from all different angles afterwards has nothing to do with a video recording software, which you need anyway if you want to make clips...

"inbuilt trackrecording tool, which lets you watch your flights from all different angles afterwards", Is this available on OBS, Most want to watch their flight from different angles, inside and out. Lets not make this into a grudge match guys. TC

[SkateZilla]

OK Guys.

 

The Track System has it's quirks, especially in LONG missions or missions w/ Alot of Scripting/Dynamic Properties

 

So:

You Fly a Mission by yourself, w/ static weather, take off, buzz tower land.

 

Track is Essentially the Mission File, and a Saved Input Recording.

 

When you watch a Track, the Sim Loads the Mission and Replaces User Control w/ the Recorded Inputs.

 

As long as everything stays the same, the track should play back accurately.

 

However, if you edit that same mission to be dynamic weather (as it the weather is randomly generated at mission loading time),

 

Take off, buzz tower, land, save track.

 

When you load the track to watch the replay, many aspects of the environment will have been changed due to randomly generated weather, so a recorded input would no longer be valid.

 

if You fly a P-51D on a Clear Day, and then load the same input recording, and try to let the sim fly the same P-51D on a 20 MPH Crosswind day, it's not going to end well, the aircraft might not even make it off the ground.

 

Now, Things that affect track Playback:

-Network Lag/Spikes/Packet Loss (in MP Tracks)

-Local Sim Spikes (if the sim process locks up for a second or otherwise skips (stutters), the input track because desynced w/ the mission.

-Dynamic Properties, ESPECIALLY WEATHER.

 

 

 

things like TactView Records the Telemetry of Everything (Ground Units, Air Units, Weapons, etc), and saves it to it's own file.

 

There is no mission load, or dynamic properties, everything is saved in that file, you open the tactview file, and the program displays the object's based on the recorded telemetry.

Edited January 4, 2017 by SkateZilla

[Art-J]

Spitfire tracks go well or go bonkers (the same tracks played twice I mean) even in simple offline, clear-sky, no-wind missions, so something's off already in the input recording, or input re-application (or both) phase.

 

Most of other aircraft seem to be completely unaffected, though, so removing the feature is not an option I'd say.

 

By the way, old Il-2 series works on the input recording principle as well, so the same game/mod version incompatibility problem applies over there as well. No idea how the "new" one works, though.

[PiedDroit]

about random weather, shouldn't the track store the seed for RNG?

[shagrat]

about random weather, shouldn't the track store the seed for RNG?

It isn't "seeding" anything... It calculates one or more dynamic (not procedural generated) isobaric systems, that start applying thermodynamics to equalize pressure differences.

Everytime it will be slightly different, like real life weather.

Every winter we have "the same weather", yet it even differs from day to day and year to year. ;)

[sobek]

I think from what I know about computing and single and double precision in calculating it cant be done the way it is done..and it would be damn hard to impossible to do so, unless you rent a DC and have it calculate it with double precision...at a fraction of the speed.

 

Say what now? What does calculation precision have to do with it, as long as errors are deterministic?

[sobek]

It isn't "seeding" anything...

 

How do you achieve any kind of randomness without a pseudorandom number generator?

[shagrat]

The term seeding in that context was referring to procedural number generation, not a simple random number.

In a procedural generation the result of the "dynamic" system is the same everytime.

The dynamic weather is different everytime.

From what I understood it uses a start value (pressure) for each system, and from that point on it tries to equalize pressure between the isobaric system(s).

[Pocket Sized]

The best solution would be to save the actual position of every unit maybe once per 5 seconds? Or if you're clever about it you could save position depending on how quickly it's moving/accelerating.

 

That way you'd still get the resolution of the current track system but errors that accumulate over time could be neutralized.

[Flagrum]

The term seeding in that context was referring to procedural number generation, not a simple random number.

In a procedural generation the result of the "dynamic" system is the same everytime.

The dynamic weather is different everytime.

From what I understood it uses a start value (pressure) for each system, and from that point on it tries to equalize pressure between the isobaric system(s).

Somewhere in the code for the dynamic weather generator there must be a random number generator be used - or how could the weather be different each time?

 

So if we use the exact same input parameters to that weather generator every time, we will get the same weather every time. The thing is just, that some of the input parameters are, well, randomized in the mission editor when you click "generate". But that is just an user interface thing. If those input parameters would be written to the .TRK file and read back from there, the dynamic weather should be the same each time the track is re-played.

[shagrat]

Somewhere in the code for the dynamic weather generator there must be a random number generator be used - or how could the weather be different each time?

 

So if we use the exact same input parameters to that weather generator every time, we will get the same weather every time. The thing is just, that some of the input parameters are, well, randomized in the mission editor when you click "generate". But that is just an user interface thing. If those input parameters would be written to the .TRK file and read back from there, the dynamic weather should be the same each time the track is re-played.

Of course, but obviously it is also different when you play it back.

And it is even developing different due to thermodynamics...