What's the point of the release version? [rant]

[Sybreed]

Everyone seems to be using the beta branch... is there any reason to use the release build at this point? Is there any reason why the release version is not updated to what the beta currently is?

 

This is getting kind of ridiculous. I have DCS on Steam. Now, I downloaded the standalone because it gets everything before Steam (*coughcoughF18coughcough*), had to get the Mirage a 2nd time because "reasons", and now I have to install DCS a third time, this time the beta branch, because it is what everyone is using and seems to be more stable than the release version...

 

Seriously Eagle Dynamics, at the risk of sounding rude... get your stuff together? You make a great simulator, but in terms of software development and customer friendliness, you get a 2 out of 10.

 

Can someone explain why DCS is such a mess in its release states?

 

P.S. Oh and apparently, you still can't change your bindings with the Mirage unless you actually launch a mission. Why isn't this fixed already?

 

Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated. I started playing DCS again in the last 2 weeks, but I'm starting to remember why I stopped in the first place.

 

At least, if someone could confirm that the release branch is gonna be updated to the beta branch, I might just wait, but I don't have my hopes up...

[dburne]

Used to be , not that long ago, we had DCS Open Alpha ( Nevada ), DCS World Stable Release, DCS World Open Beta. Then when Normandy map was released it got tucked into the Open Alpha.

 

 

Now we are down to 2, and will likely always be that way. Stable Release, and Open Beta. They release stuff after internal testing, to the Open Beta to get a much larger representation from the community to find any bugs that may have been missed and make any necessary tweaks. Then when they are satisfied they will put that version into the Stable Release.

 

 

They have been doing it this way for a long time.

 

I myself just run the Open Beta, I get to play early on and really it is rare to run across any game stoppers.

[Kayos]

I only use Open Beta too. No point having the regular stable version really.

[feefifofum]

Spoken like someone who hasn't been here very long... ;)

 

2.5.0 exhibited load time issues and some problems in multiplayer, but single player content was working fine.

 

The first 2.5.1OB release broke a lot of the scripted content. There were a lot of issues with AI behavior When this was identified, a fix was released, also into the beta branch for further testing.

 

The next update released a new map...so, beta branch again because new things always hit open beta first.

 

This week's update will release a new airframe, sooo...open beta again.

 

If you want all new content the second it is available to the public, open beta is the place to be but it also comes with the risk that an issue undetected in internal testing may be present and break some aspect of gameplay. For example, in last week's release player aircraft carrier spawns stopped working...in stable this is not an issue, though you don't have the PG map.

 

You can easily push the standalone between different release branches as you desire. For instructions see this thread.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114030

 

If you aren't comfortable using the command prompt, you can use this GUI

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160053

[Drexx]

As the DDCS multiplayer server architect/server/admin: We run the most current stable version for multiplayer which is OpenBeta currently

 

I am constantly weighing my options, to keep the most players playing as possible

[Davee]

As the DDCS multiplayer server architect/server/admin: We run the most current stable version for multiplayer which is OpenBeta currently

 

I am constantly weighing my options, to keep the most players playing as possible

 

 

Yes, it is a difficult choice at this stage.

 

 

For the OP, it is important to be aware that many/most online servers throughout the years tend to use the release version as generally, it is more stable having gone through the beta stage first. Many anomalies are introduced during the beta phase and this can be a big issue for scripting.

 

 

Offline, who cares which version one plays.

 

 

Just sayin'

[HoBo777]

Same here on running OpenBeta only.

[Canada_Moose]

Everyone seems to be using the beta branch... is there any reason to use the release build at this point? Is there any reason why the release version is not updated to what the beta currently is?

 

This is getting kind of ridiculous. I have DCS on Steam. Now, I downloaded the standalone because it gets everything before Steam (*coughcoughF18coughcough*), had to get the Mirage a 2nd time because "reasons", and now I have to install DCS a third time, this time the beta branch, because it is what everyone is using and seems to be more stable than the release version...

 

Seriously Eagle Dynamics, at the risk of sounding rude... get your stuff together? You make a great simulator, but in terms of software development and customer friendliness, you get a 2 out of 10.

 

Can someone explain why DCS is such a mess in its release states?

 

P.S. Oh and apparently, you still can't change your bindings with the Mirage unless you actually launch a mission. Why isn't this fixed already?

 

Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated. I started playing DCS again in the last 2 weeks, but I'm starting to remember why I stopped in the first place.

 

At least, if someone could confirm that the release branch is gonna be updated to the beta branch, I might just wait, but I don't have my hopes up...

 

 

You didn't need to install a 3rd time. Just run the command line to switch your installation between release and beta versions. You can go back and forth as often as you like.

[David OC]

Everyone seems to be using the beta branch... is there any reason to use the release build at this point? Is there any reason why the release version is not updated to what the beta currently is?

 

This is getting kind of ridiculous. I have DCS on Steam. Now, I downloaded the standalone because it gets everything before Steam (*coughcoughF18coughcough*), had to get the Mirage a 2nd time because "reasons", and now I have to install DCS a third time, this time the beta branch, because it is what everyone is using and seems to be more stable than the release version...

 

Seriously Eagle Dynamics, at the risk of sounding rude... get your stuff together? You make a great simulator, but in terms of software development and customer friendliness, you get a 2 out of 10.

 

Can someone explain why DCS is such a mess in its release states?

 

P.S. Oh and apparently, you still can't change your bindings with the Mirage unless you actually launch a mission. Why isn't this fixed already?

 

Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated. I started playing DCS again in the last 2 weeks, but I'm starting to remember why I stopped in the first place.

 

At least, if someone could confirm that the release branch is gonna be updated to the beta branch, I might just wait, but I don't have my hopes up...

 

The standalone DCS is quite easy compared to other sims and much better in many ways, once you take the time to understand how it works. I posted all the different ways HERE to change any version(s) of DCS to any other version, DCS is not bound by windows, no need to keep reinstalling, you can literally copy and paste the DCS folder then run a clean, repair and update then launch.

[eaglecash867]

Everyone seems to be using the beta branch... is there any reason to use the release build at this point? Is there any reason why the release version is not updated to what the beta currently is?

 

This is getting kind of ridiculous. I have DCS on Steam. Now, I downloaded the standalone because it gets everything before Steam (*coughcoughF18coughcough*), had to get the Mirage a 2nd time because "reasons", and now I have to install DCS a third time, this time the beta branch, because it is what everyone is using and seems to be more stable than the release version...

 

Seriously Eagle Dynamics, at the risk of sounding rude... get your stuff together? You make a great simulator, but in terms of software development and customer friendliness, you get a 2 out of 10.

 

Can someone explain why DCS is such a mess in its release states?

 

P.S. Oh and apparently, you still can't change your bindings with the Mirage unless you actually launch a mission. Why isn't this fixed already?

 

Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated. I started playing DCS again in the last 2 weeks, but I'm starting to remember why I stopped in the first place.

 

At least, if someone could confirm that the release branch is gonna be updated to the beta branch, I might just wait, but I don't have my hopes up...

 

If you had been playing DCS a couple of months ago, before the stable and beta versions split, you would have a greater appreciation for having both versions. Not that long ago, the Beta was our only option, and updates and tweaks came about once a week. Well, sometimes the updated and tweaked version of the Beta broke something so badly that it was unplayable. One example was one particular incarnation that made all of the buildings disappear. That left everybody who was doing regular updates without a sim for a week. The following week, when the update became available, I was a little gunshy about installing the latest update for fear of what else it would break. But, at that point, it was already broken so I didn't have anything to lose.

 

When the stable version was released, I misunderstood what that meant. I thought that it meant the product was complete, and that I should just download and install that. I deactivated and uninstalled the beta. Then I installed the stable and activated it. A little bit after that, I was seeing new posts about frustrations with graphics settings on the Beta. That kinda baffled me a little bit, because I thought the Beta preceded the stable version of any software. So, I went into it, assuming I would have to burn another set of module activations, and I wasn't sure it would let me keep both versions. But, it does let you keep both versions installed, and it doesn't burn any more module activations. Like you though, I was still a little frustrated because I hadn't yet grasped the huge advantage that this had over the prior methods. Now, if they "break" something that makes it unplayable for me, I can fall back on the stable, and wait to see what the next beta update does. The reason I put "break" in quotes that time is because I have an issue with the Deferred Shading option being removed. Deferred shading bothers the hell out of me for VR (looks cartoony to me), but a lot of other people are fine with it. I like the fact that I can find out if the beta is performing satisfactorily for me before I agree to install future updates to the stable. If I do like the lates incarnation of the Beta, I play it until something gets broken, then I can jump right back to the stable. No new installs, and all of my settings stay right where I left them. This is all very subjective. Different people focus on different things, and they can't possibly make everybody happy about every aspect of the sim all at once. This split method just gives us a way to keep playing what we are reasonably happy with and still be able to try the latest version and take it or leave it.

 

Sorry for the lengthy explanation of my viewpoint. But I think I'm understanding their intentions behind splitting the two versions.

[Balzarog]

I have both 2.5.0 release version and 2.5 open beta installed. I prefer 2.5 open beta for my regular use because some of the bugs in 2.5.0 release have been fixed in 2.5 open beta. But one of my favorite multiplayer servers in only on 2.5 release because the Administrator wants to make sure an update doesn't break that awesome server. Having two versions helps DCS satisfy two extremely vocal communities.

[wizav]

People need to understand that there is no such thing as "Stable" ... that ver. should be ditched away.

 

We just need more regularly updated BETA!

 

Every stable ver. had many issues just as beta so what's the point?

 

If you want your patches sooner than later you play BETA...

[cypc]

Every stable ver. had many issues just as beta so what's the point?

 

Stable version has no major blocking bugs (like all buildings vanished on an entire map), and very few crashes compared to beta. That's what the beta is for, debug. Many here tend to forget that.

[BitMaster]

have both installed but only run OB. It works online with stable and OB servers, no issues usually unless commented.

[iKyrThraad993i]

How long does it usually take for planes and terrains to get from Open beta to stable? Do you have to wait till the product is fully finished or its usually when they are finished making sure there is not huge bugs?

[Sylosis]

Even if everybody brought forward very reasonable justifications as to why there is a beta versus a released version, the fact of the matter is that DCS "released" version has been irrelevant for quite some time now and it will probably be like that for a long time..

 

Hell everybody who answered said they were only on beta.

 

Moreover, almost everybody justified the existence of the released vs beta for testing purposes, which is, we'll all agree, the usual reason for beta vs released.

 

However, considering how "not great at all" the current released 2.5.0 is, one can question how much this stil stands in DCS. Clearly it required a lot more testing and tweaking, yet it got released.

 

So, in my mind, I can understand the OP's question. I've never seen a "game" where the beta is the mainly used version.

 

On anything else, beta is usually quite unstable and a fraction of the population uses it.

 

On DCS, I don't see many complaints about the beta being broken (or at the very least, it doesn't seem worse than the released version), plus almost everybody is on it.

 

So ya... "In theory" the released version has its relevance. But in practice I don't really see it..

 

Don't you think?

[Greyman]

Wouldn't it depend upon whether any users that prefer to use the stable release are also less likely to read and particularly post in these forums?

[ouPhrontis]

The whole idea of stable to beta is a programmatic one, you have concurrent releases running, one has known stable patches applied, the other has unknown proposed patches running, the latter is an unknown/untested and by running it you are accepting that you have become a tester.

 

This is/was intended as the tradition and so people often make the decision to run beta to get the latest patches, without realising that they're potentially jumping the gun. Use Beta at your peril, enjoy whatever it brings for sure, but it is there as a test-bed. It could change.

[Yurgon]

Everyone seems to be using the beta branch... is there any reason to use the release build at this point? Is there any reason why the release version is not updated to what the beta currently is?

 

"Deferred Shading" is a new option many players complained about. In the OpenBeta, it's been mandatory for several weeks, causing all sorts of problems for some players. The release-branch doesn't enforce Deferred Shading.

 

If you're okay with testing the latest and greatest, while suffering from sometimes pretty bad problems, OB is the way to go.

 

Now if you have actual problems with the release version, that's something else. I agree the release version is far from bug free, and there have been instances where known bugs from the OB were pushed to release. Anyway, generally speaking, the release version tends to run a lot smoother than the OB.

 

And let's not forget that, AFAIK, our vocal part of the community here in the forum is probably something like 10% of ED's customer base. Or was it 1%? In any case, 10 people saying "I'm running OB" doesn't mean that's actually how the majority of DCS users does it.

[doright]

I have to wonder about so many beta changes piled on top of each other that DCS can no longer claim it is testing in preparation for a stable release. It would be only become much more difficult to differentiate the source of bugs. Put simply they have broken the develop, test, release model. Now they are merging feature branch after feature branch onto beta and seem to have forgotten the master branch because it looks so small and puny on the commit map.

[SharpeXB]

I never run Betas in any game or DCS. I don’t personally have time for testing things that might not work and bottom line I have tons of other sims and games which aren’t in Beta. Those are more worth my time. In DCS there is lots of content that’s out of early access so there’s no shortage of stuff to do here.

 

Wouldn't it depend upon whether any users that prefer to use the stable release are also less likely to read and particularly post in these forums?

Totally correct. Only a tiny fraction of any games community ever reads a forum or posts on one.

Typically less than 1% of forum members have ever made a single post.

I’m sure the vast majority of DCS players don’t bother with the Beta either.

Edited June 1, 2018 by SharpeXB

[Stratos]

You didn't need to install a 3rd time. Just run the command line to switch your installation between release and beta versions. You can go back and forth as often as you like.

 

Can you please tell me how you do that? I'm on stable with already purchased Hormuz and Hornet, and want to try them!

[Greyman]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114030

 

Look for the command line that has @openbeta at the end

[Stratos]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114030

 

Look for the command line that has @openbeta at the end

 

Can't understand what I need to write.

[Greyman]

1. open windows explorer and move to the folder where you have DCS World installed.

2. Select the bin folder, don't open it and hold down the Shift key while right clicking on the bin folder

3. You will then see a menu with either something like "open powershell window here" or "open cmd prompt here", depending upon the version of windows you have. select whichever one you have

4. If it is the cmd variant, go to 5 below. if it is the powershell variant, type "cmd" and hit return

5. Type "DCS_updater.exe update @openbeta" and hit return

6 click Yes if you need to and that should download the openbeta version of the software and install it over the top of your release version

7. if you need to go back to the release version, repeat steps 1-4 above and then type

"DCS_updater.exe update @release"

 

I hope this helps