[REPORTED] Error in Ground Effect?

[PL_Harpoon]

Oh, so that's why I boltered every time I tried to land on the ball.

 

 

It all makes sense now.

 

 

 

Just look how much do you need to pull up to remain on speed :

[bkthunder]

Reverse ground effect getting stronger?

 

I was flying low over the runway at about 80 feet and literally got sucked down and crashed. I'm aware of the reversed ground effect bug, but did it just become stronger with the last patch?

[maxTRX]

I was flying low over the runway at about 80 feet and literally got sucked down and crashed. I'm aware of the reversed ground effect bug, but did it just become stronger with the last patch?

 

:( the darn thing is still there?! I forgot about that one...

[dorianR666]

:( the darn thing is still there?! I forgot about that one...

so is the terribly broken weaponry drag on hornet (dropping bombs makes you faster than an airplane spawned as clean).

likely the flight model guy was transfered to f-16.

[Svend_Dellepude]

The FM did not get the revision yet. The guy working on FM is doing some system on the F-18, and when that is finished, he is gonna revisit the FM. All stated by Wags himself.

I think it's stated in the mini updates a while back.

[BuzzU]

The FM did not get the revision yet. The guy working on FM is doing some system on the F-18, and when that is finished, he is gonna revisit the FM. All stated by Wags himself.

I think it's stated in the mini updates a while back.

 

He should let Lex test it when he's done before giving it to us. Then we can't complain that it's not accurate.

 

Only Lex and GB know for sure on this forum what the plane should feel like. The rest of us are guessing.

[maxTRX]

...The rest of us are guessing.

 

No guessing about inverse ground effect and few other things:)

You'd be surprised how much resources are there... among the rest.

 

btw, I was kinda hoping that some RL Hornet guys are involved with testing and "occasional" feedback to the devs through whatever channels of communication.

[Chuck_Henry]

Only Lex and GB know for sure on this forum what the plane should feel like. The rest of us are guessing.

 

While true, there is no aircraft in the world that experiences reverse ground effect. It would literally defy the laws of Newtonian physics and blade element theory.

[Svend_Dellepude]

ED has on several occasions welcomed documented feedback, so if you have anything documented, just send it to them.

They can, however, not build a sim based on peoples feelings expectations and varying sense of logic.

The ground effect have AFAIK been acknowledged some time ago:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=213372&highlight=ground+effect

 

ED have SME's working alongside the programmers and the F-18 is still in EA.

Things just takes time. :)

[BuzzU]

While true, there is no aircraft in the world that experiences reverse ground effect. It would literally defy the laws of Newtonian physics and blade element theory.

 

I agree. I was responding to the FM in general and letting real ex-pilots testing it before we get it.

[ShalashakaDS]

It's been like that since day one of open beta, one year later and no hopes of a fix. Very promising.

[G B]

The only place to experience what you guys are describing is the Burble behind the ship. A strong Burble will bring you down in a hurry.

[Tomsk]

The only place to experience what you guys are describing is the Burble behind the ship. A strong Burble will bring you down in a hurry.

 

No you get it on airfields as well .. it's a flight model "quirk" in the Hornet, it has reverse ground effect.

[G B]

No you get it on airfields as well .. it's a flight model "quirk" in the Hornet, it has reverse ground effect.

 

I know that. I wasn’t describing what you get in DCS. I was describing what happens in the real world, and what should happen in DCS.

[DrGarantia]

I tried flying low to evade some SAMs this weekend twice, both times at around 30-40ft the plane is sucked to the ground, can't say if it is stronger than before, at least the effect is still there.

[Eldur]

The last time I had this I G-LOCed due to heavy neg G due to the nose down pull, just before I crashed into the ground rather steeply. All that shortly after flying level across the ground at low altitude When I noticed it beginning, I immediately pulled back completely and pressed my paddle switch, to no avail (I had this saving me once already)... noone can tell me that this might even be close to being realistic at all.

[NineLine]

I was flying low over the runway at about 80 feet and literally got sucked down and crashed. I'm aware of the reversed ground effect bug, but did it just become stronger with the last patch?

 

There have been no such changes.

[HoBo777]

There have been no such changes.

It does seem stronger, are you sure they haven't been trying to fix it? That would honestly make me happier than no changes. The reverse ground effect has been known about for nearly a year.

Edited June 10, 2019 by HoBo777
Grammer

[Wags]

As NL indicated, there has been no change. The engineer that works in such items has been very busy on other areas the past couple of months.

 

Thanks

[Preendog]

Someone decompile the game and flip the sign on that line.

[maxTRX]

Someone decompile the game and flip the sign on that line.

 

 

For the Hornet?... might as well take out the whole line. Not much of a noticeable ground effect in a Hornet... from what I hear. "Local" Hornet pilots' comments welcome:)

 

I don't think it's just a line though, most likely some unintended side effect from some other part of code. Or perhaps it is one line, lol. What the hell do I know about coding:doh:

[bbrz]

Just did a few more tests and IMO it's definitely not an 'reversed' ground effect, it's a pitch down moment that is introduced at very low altitude, below 30-50ft.

Noticed that exactly the same phenomenon occurs (at least) with the MiG-29 as well.

 

At low speed and high AoA I could understand this effect, since the downwash of the very low positioned stabilator enters the ground effect before the wing does.

This reduces the stabilator downwash, increases lift and produces a noticable pitch down effect.

 

This effect is very noticable when e.g. rotating on take off IRL in big jets.

As soon as the horizontal stabilizer descends into the ground effect you need to increase the pull on the yoke to keep the present rotation rate.

Starting to climb, the stabilizer leaves the ground effect and you need to relax the back pressure.

 

@Gripes, with this large flaps and flap angle on the F/A-18, there is for sure a 'theoretical' ground effect.

But taking into account the high wing loading and that Hornet pilots usually don't shoot for greasers and the rather high ROD it's not noticable I'd say.

 

But this pitch down even occurs at high speed, e.g. at 400kts where the relative position of the stabilator is higher and it produces much less lift.

Edited June 11, 2019 by bbrz

[Strikeeagle345]

Just did a few more tests and IMO it's definitely not an 'reversed' ground effect, it's a pitch down moment that is introduced at very low altitude, below 30-50ft.

Noticed that exactly the same phenomenon occurs (at least) with the MiG-29 as well.

 

At low speed and high AoA I could understand this effect, since the downwash of the very low positioned stabilator enters the ground effect before the wing does.

This reduces the stabilator downwash, increases lift and produces a noticable pitch down effect.

 

This effect is very noticable when e.g. rotating on take off IRL in big jets.

As soon as the horizontal stabilizer descends into the ground effect you need to increase the pull on the yoke to keep the present rotation rate.

Starting to climb, the stabilizer leaves the ground effect and you need to relax the back pressure.

 

@Gripes, with this large flaps and flap angle on the F/A-18, there is for sure a 'theoretical' ground effect.

But taking into account the high wing loading and that Hornet pilots usually don't shoot for greasers and the rather high ROD it's not noticable I'd say.

 

But this pitch down even occurs at high speed, e.g. at 400kts where the relative position of the stabilator is higher and it produces much less lift.

 

It is a reverse ground effect. ED confirmed it late last year. It is in the Bug section as [REPORTED].

[bbrz]

Just re-tested. If ground effect for e.g. the stabilizer isn't calculated seperately, then it's indeee a 'reverse' ground effect and the pitch down moment is simply the result from the loss of lift.

 

With the F/A-18 at 300kts I need an approximately 0.5° higher AoA in ground effect.

Edited June 11, 2019 by bbrz

[Strikeeagle345]

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=213372