Why is the Viper getting TWS before the Hornet?

[Shimmergloom667]

That’s what i did

:thumbup:

 

That will benefit all - you can rest easy, the EA-crowd can rest easy too, because there's less whine. Win-win.

[nessuno0505]

Never bought and still not intend to buy early access modules, and now I'm enjoying the show. The only thing I hope for is that ED finds a way to develop new modules without bugging and breaking older finished ones. If "developing radar as an API", as someone said - whatever this means - is something towards this direction, I think it's a good thing. Then, between Hornet and viper, I'll choose to buy the one who will be out of EA first, since I do not have time to study two such complex modules together. My plan was the Hornet, since I'm more of a navy guy, but as ED plans can change, so do mine.

[LINKIN]

Like children in a sandbox.

[Padonis]

Sometimes I get nervous easily and often say what I think too quickly. Unfortunately, because of my comments and nervous statements, I already have 60% of warnings in this forum. :(

I know that sometimes you have to bite your tongue before you say something, but sometimes I just can't help myself. I'm sorry.

"Viper" will receive TWS before "Hornet". I feel a little disappointed because I've been waiting for him since the release of Hornet. This seems a bit unfair to the owners of F-18.

"Hornet" jumped to the background and it is rather difficult to deny it. It's hard, I don't understand it, but somehow I have to survive. I love playing DCS, but I won't buy an F-16 so that I don't have more nerves and disappointments of this kind. It's a simple solution that will bring relief not only to me :).

But what will happen when such a solution is chosen by many of us?

[NobiWan]

Geez...

 

What the hell is wrong with you guys????

 

It is patently obvious that this situation arises because the implementation of TWS in the F-16 is simpler the integrating it into the avionics of the Hornet.

 

Ergo it comes to F-16 first.

 

It's called engineering expediency. That's it. There's no goddamn conspiracy.

 

Oh, no, of course, but naturally ED did it just to pi$$ you Hornet boys off, clearly. :doh:

 

Here's a tip: take off your tinfoil hats, put a pin to that burgeoning balloon of self importance you have developed and grow a pair; you'll do better at dealing with the rest of life's curve balls and disappointments.

 

 

:lol::thumbup:We are living in the age of hysteria...

[cercata]

That's cool, the Viper owners will be Beta Testers for the TWS, so when it will arrive to our Hornet it will be polished :)

[Mr_sukebe]

Another thread trying to micromanage development.

It’s better to not try to 2nd guess elements of the roadmap when you don’t have viability of both it and the cross dependencies

[nessuno0505]

But what will happen when such a solution is chosen by many of us?

 

Maybe ED will change something before this happens, but if you don't change nothing will change.

[robgraham]

Is it sad that I can understand this from both view points?

 

From ED's viewpoint it's we shifted a coder and it's quicker and easier to get him to finish the code he's working on there, because once it's done it should be plug and play almost into the hornet for the most part as the new API will be completed. Yes that API was most likely almost already complete before they moved him but since then he's finished it over there and easier to just ship it.

 

From the point of Hornet EA people of which I'm one, we've been promised TWS now for months, we were told it was just around the corner on more then one occasion only to then be told it was pushed back due to 'issues', we were told that the viper was not going to take from the hornet's development at all only to have that change and not be the case and now the Viper is getting a feature that the Hornet has been screaming for now forever.. Yeah there is gonna be some people royally upset.

 

 

And while Silver, Nine etc can all go this is how it is, at the same time you also have to stop and remember that in the past 4 weeks a lot of 'Good Will' Eagle has built up has been burnt, this in a lot of ways to many is just the icing on the cake. It might make 100% sense to you and the development team and yes I applaud the transparency but lets face it right now your gonna be damned for it if you give it and even more if you don't, so I'd honestly suggest having a thick skin for a very long while and asking Nick to actually get that proper feature timeline done so that people do have some idea of what to expect and when.

 

Honestly to me your best case scenario would have been to hold features that are co-located until they are ready for both and while you say that wouldn't be 'fair' to the Viper users, it would be IF you explained that is what was going to happen, just as it would be if it was explained to Hornet users that's likely to happen in turn for them.

 

"Hey guys, moving forwards as systems that exist in both aircraft come together we will be releasing them at the same time, this is to prevent any cries of favouritism or accusations that we are pushing the development of one aircraft for more sales over the other, it means that you can expect the TWS, AGR and updated FLIR features to hit in both birds at the same time'.

 

boom your PR issues at least some what negated, but instead of that we get this.

 

Still i can get why there is a lot of upset and angry people atm, I just beyond it at this point because i've given up believing a word i'm told until it's proven otherwise.

[VDV]

For me TWS is not that important...Hornet`s primary role is not A/A. Yes, it can do it pretty well, but its F/A (fighter-attack) aircraft, and its primary role is to be a striker. So I preffer to get ATFLIR and other sensors like AG radar first.

[robgraham]

For me TWS is not that important...Hornet`s primary role is not A/A. Yes, it can do it pretty well, but its F/A (fighter-attack) aircraft, and its primary role is to be a striker. So I preffer to get ATFLIR and other sensors like AG radar first.

 

we ain't getting the AGR for a while saddly that's from the owners mouth.

[mono6020]

For me TWS is not that important...Hornet`s primary role is not A/A. Yes, it can do it pretty well, but its F/A (fighter-attack) aircraft, and its primary role is to be a striker. So I preffer to get ATFLIR and other sensors like AG radar first.

 

as is the Viper. Same Story. still more love goes to the Viper A/A Radar

[Shimmergloom667]

Still more love goes to the Viper A/A Radar

 

Both get the same love, it's not as if the Viper will get TWS and the Hornet will have to wait another year. Like being explained multiple time: it's a basic, underlying framework that will benefit radar implementation for ANY existing and future module in the long run. It is absolutely, 100% irrelevant which one is getting it a week early or two.

[WHOGX5]

I completely understand that Hornet pilots feel a bit sour about getting TWS after the Viper drivers, for all the obvious reasons, and those feelings are justified. What boggles my mind though is people who want the feature to be delayed, rather than release it to the Viper first. I just can't understand this "if I can't have it, he shouldn't either" mentality. Life isn't always 100% fair, that's no reason to make it suck just as much for everyone else.

[BIGNEWY]

TWS development will benefit the Viper and the Hornet.

 

 

A reminder to all posting, we do have rules here. Sometimes our emotions can spill over, so just remember we are all passionate about the same things. Be nice to each other.

 

thanks

[mono6020]

Both get the same love, it's not as if the Viper will get TWS and the Hornet will have to wait another year. Like being explained multiple time: it's a basic, underlying framework that will benefit radar implementation for ANY existing and future module in the long run. It is absolutely, 100% irrelevant which one is getting it a week early or two.

 

i feel what you are saying. still, how can you know? how does the simple statement "hornet will benefit from the viper development" differ from everything else they ever said in the "coming soon" trademark regime?

[hughlb]

To the people complaining consider this:

 

When you purchased the Hornet, what you were purchasing was the final completed product, with TWS, all the bells and whistles. That product hasn't been released yet, because the product is still in alpha development, meaning it isn't feature complete.

 

Then what happened is you got given fair treatment - ED tossed you the keys and said, "because you paid us money before the product was released, we're going to let you come down to the factory and sit in the cockpit until it's done. You can offer some advice about the order you would like it finished, you can tell us where we have made some errors with the paintwork, button placement, stitching."

 

Then when the Hornet is released, you get the product you paid for, with TWS, all the bells and whistles. This is what Early Access means. It is there to help ED develop your investment, but more importantly, it is a way of repaying you for buying the product before it has released.

 

You actually have somewhat of a say in the order of development, as was the case with the Hornet, but at the end of the day there is a team of people still hard at work building your plane, and they are going to have to make some calls themselves about building the plane - that's just how it goes.

 

If you are only happy with a completed product, wait for that product to be completed.

[Shimmergloom667]

i feel what you are saying. still, how can you know? how does the simple statement "hornet will benefit from the viper development" differ from everything else they ever said in the "coming soon" trademark regime?

 

Because everything they said we would receive in the Hornet is on track. Yes, it might take longer than expected, but that's pretty subjective - there have been no promises on a timeframe or a timeline.

 

And the rest is logical deduction: both radars share a lot of underlying systems commonality (as do basically all (western) pulse-doppler radars of the era). There is literally no reason to NOT believe that they reworked that thing from the ground up to be applicable for later modules too. That's also why the Viper is getting it relatively faster than the Hornet: during the Hornets EA the underlying rework has been started, and Viper is benefitting from that now. The Hornet on the other hand will benefit from the actual *implementation* into the Viper. Easy as that.

[pj]

What good is radar without cows? I want my cows, dammit!

[BarTzi]

it's not as if the Viper will get TWS and the Hornet will have to wait another year.

 

That's the point. We don't know when that guy will get back to the Hornet. It can take a week, a month, maybe two. Who knows. Can we complain? heck yeah.

[Tippis]

Then we are not being honest and transparent, so what do you do?

Plan development focus and roll-out of features better so you don't get stuck in those kinds of no-win scenarios. Conversely, if you want to be honest and transparent about not being able to make a plan and stick to it (and I'm not saying that there are no legit reasons why that would happen) don't be surprised by or get defensive over how this paints a picture of a scattershot pace of development, or over the fact that people will be frustrated by it.

 

Honesty and transparency only works if it applies all the way through — inwards and outwards — and if you're willing to engage fully with the voyeuristic-exhibitionistic exchange that this entails. Otherwise, it's just a surface-layer of gloss that will get scratched up and be even more annoying to everyone than if it wasn't there at all.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Tippis

[Appleonastick]

That's the point. We don't know when that guy will get back to the Hornet. It can take a week, a month, maybe two. Who knows. Can we complain? heck yeah.

 

And what exactly makes you feel you are entitled to complain?

Is the Hornet still in early access? Yes

Does that mean it is finished? No

Does that mean they OWE you a date to wich 1 feature will be available? No

Are you granted to complain when it is stated as finished product and the said feature is not available? Yes.

 

All they owe you is a finished product, that's it.

When that will happen, and in what order it will happen is up to a developer.

The thing you are missing and what makes your life a complete waste right now, could be completely unimportant for someone else. But screw others, you're more important right?

 

Just take a chillpill and actually, for once, SUPPORT a developer instead of thinking they are out to destroy your life.

What would your morale be, if every customer would start bitching towards you. Not in a decent way giving critical tips and tell you what they would like. But instead just all be dicks towards you, and just state that everything you do makes zero sense, and you're doing it wrong, and you're a shitty person working for a shitty company.

For once, look at something as if you were an outsider. Look at both sides, and try some logic.

I will promise you it will make your life a lot more fun.

(Unless you like the negativity of course. for some people it's just the only thing they know/want)

[MasterZelgadis]

Honestly ED should stop doing early access at all. The community just can't handle it. Give out the stable version only and only fully released modules.

Maybe beta versions, but only for people who apply for it and get checked. With the option to kick them out of the beta program, when they don't support the product.

[Shimmergloom667]

Honestly ED should stop doing early access at all. The community just can't handle it. Give out the stable version only and only fully released modules.

Maybe beta versions, but only for people who apply for it and get checked. With the option to kick them out of the beta program, when they don't support the product.

 

And then they would complain that only a select few can test it out and that modules take years to come out on the market boo hoo hoo

[cercata]

we were told that the viper was not going to take from the hornet's development at all only to have that change and not be the case

How do you know that's not the case ?

 

Maybe the Hornet team didn't change, and now there is new guy working on the F-16 radar, and thanks to that synergy we'll have the TWS earlier ...

 

Maybe not, but can't afirm neither