Why is the Viper getting TWS before the Hornet?

[FoxAlfa]

…but that's assuming you skip the step before that, where they've already picked a much longer path than is necessary and tied themselves up in a path dependency that didn't need to be there to begin with. You're offering a pretty good argument why the Hornet should have gotten TWS long before the Viper, though. ;)

 

And are you aware that software packages generate most of their income in first 3 month after launch... so if they delayed the Viper, then it might have been no money, no ED, no Viper TWS, no Hornet TWS and lot of us whining over spilled milk! Don't be a armchair general...

 

Enjoy the patch and the Hornet and Viper, the TWS will come sooner or later.

Edited October 18, 2019 by FoxAlfa

[Sniper175]

So many experts yawn....

[yanyu]

No tws, f18 is nothing. Not worth buy.

 

No tws, f18 is nothing. Not worth buying.

SO, any friend who likes f18, don't buy.

[Appleonastick]

How do we know? Because Nine, Wags, Nick, Newy have all confirmed that the Hornet team was moved over to the Viper, it was even in the newsletter. That's how we know, we also know because some one said *eyes nine* that they only have one radar programmer at the moment.

 

So yeah we know that it's 1 guy.

 

Here's what's toxic about the game community.

The newsletter did not state that AT all.

They said that SOME of the hornet devs are mover over.. SOME!! Not many.. Not all. But SOME...

 

And what is wrong with one radar guy.

You think they should have 6? or 25?

And do you think it's just mindless programming that any simple soul can do in a day?

And hence, they are bullying us this way?

 

Yeah.. This will really boost morale at ED..

[*Aquila*]

ATFLIR has only capable on Navy F/A-18 aircrafts, the F-16CM coming with Litening pod,

implemented in the Hornet yet.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=241132

Cool, you understood the problem with this model of so-called "parallel" develompent. Which money will be made by developing the ATFLIR? None. Which new module development can take advantage of its development? None. The Litening was not in the initial Hornet project IIRC. It's all about damage control.

[Darcwaynard]

Its WIP. Hornet forum has evolved into crying babies forum. Patience people. We're going to get it, they are literally working on the Viper TWS so that when it's done it can be sent over to the Hornet and developed further. If you want to tell your friends not to buy it now then that's awesome, wait until it's actually finished otherwise take a tissue.

 

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

[Rudel_chw]

No tws, f18 is nothing. Not worth buying.

SO, any friend who likes f18, don't buy.

 

 

Yeah .. I can totally see how one single feature lacking is worth so much more than the remaining 95% that are ready ... go fly your F-15 instead.

[dawgie79]

Sometimes I wonder what the average age is of the people on the ED forums.

I thought it would be around 40ish, but after reading so much entitled whining and complaining the past few months, and sometimes even namecalling and sugarcoated threats, I sincerely believe it's more like 12ish.

Edited October 19, 2019 by dawgie79

[ebabil]

what a nonsense choice to make your very first post

[robgraham]

Here's what's toxic about the game community.

The newsletter did not state that AT all.

They said that SOME of the hornet devs are mover over.. SOME!! Not many.. Not all. But SOME...

 

And what is wrong with one radar guy.

You think they should have 6? or 25?

And do you think it's just mindless programming that any simple soul can do in a day?

And hence, they are bullying us this way?

 

Yeah.. This will really boost morale at ED..

 

Hey man there's no need to personal attack if your gonna start on about toxicity ;) , I was stating what was said in multiple places ok? Even here on the forums I then go on to defend the fact that ED is damned if they do and damned if they don't and there is nothing wrong with 1 radar guy, I never said that there was, I was answering a person who asked how we knew that there was 1 radar guy. Do I honestly think that they'd be better off having some one else learn along side him if only for redundency yes, but hey that's life maybe they don't have any one else who can learn vector math?

 

This type of response is why nine and newy end up locking threads.

 

As for what I think on radar programming, actually by and large it is a lot of vector math and ray calls.. literally that's what radar programming is in simulation or in real life, your shooting a ray from the emitter out (in sim a raycast, in reality a radio wave), you watch what that ray hits and then depending on what it does and in DCS the level of simulation you do a number of things.

1. either just do a simple RCS return (not what I think DCS's programmers have done)

2. do a bounce based on the object surface and it's current vectors (more what i think they are doing)

 

Is it complex math? yeah but it's math in the end a lot of this

 

variable1[] = ray.shoot(emitter,emitter.vectorx,emitter.vectory,emitter.vectorz);
if variable1[] !- nil { code to start iterating the returned contacts };
etc. etc. ettc

 

as for the newsletter

 

 

Q: What are the deliverables expected of the F16 Viper before the developers move back onto completing the Hornet?

A: Engineers will return to Hornet development in the near future.

 

 

but again take it as you want i'm not going to start a fight with you. I was stating an opinion, your welcome to disagree and refute it but do it with out the hostility, I've not attacked any one so really... who's being toxic?

Edited October 18, 2019 by robgraham
fix up some errors

[docWilly]

Do not feed the trolls... :-)

[Tippis]

And are you aware then software packages generate most of their income in first 3 month after launch...

…which means you should manage your launch windows properly to avoid unnecessary task switching that delays or — worse — taints those launches, thereby reducing the income from not just one but two products in one fell swoop.

 

Nothing will kill a developer faster than being so focused on pushing out the latest-and-greatest than a repeated pattern of it ending up less-than-great-and-always-late. Bleeding edge is an anti-pattern for a reason, and if you have to keep releasing incomplete products to afford to deal with the technical debt of old ones, all you're doing is accumulating more technical debt at an exponential pace. Before long, your name is just another one on the pile of projects that succumbed to the “next great thing” mode of self-defeating development.

 

But again, that's another argument why the Hornet should have gotten TWS long before the Viper…

 

As for what I think on radar programming, actually by and large it is a lot of vector math and ray calls.. literally that's what radar programming is in simulation or in real life, your shooting a ray from the emitter out (in sim a raycast, in reality a radio wave), you watch what that ray hits and then depending on what it does and in DCS the level of simulation you do a number of things.

1. either just do a simple RCS return (not what I think DCS's programmers have done)

2. do a bounce based on the object surface and it's current vectors (more what i think they are doing)

Based on what they've previously claimed, and on what has since been disproven by what modders have dug out of the code in their own development of aircraft modules, the former has shown to be more in line with how it actually works, unfortunately.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Tippis

[hanab]

what a nonsense choice to make your very first post

 

It is his choice so respect other player who are not agree with you !

[sirrah]

No tws, f18 is nothing. Not worth buying.

SO, any friend who likes f18, don't buy.

 

 

 

Guys, why bother replying to these kind of cry-babies?

 

This one has been Lurking here since August 2018, waiting for his/her moment to moan..

Edited October 18, 2019 by sirrah

[FoxAlfa]

 

 

Nothing will kill a developer faster than being so focused on pushing out the latest-and-greatest than a repeated pattern of it ending up less-than-great-and-always-late. Bleeding edge is an anti-pattern for a reason, and if you have to keep releasing incomplete products to afford to deal with the technical debt of old ones, all you're doing is accumulating more technical debt at an exponential pace. Before long, your name is just another one on the pile of projects that succumbed to the “next great thing” mode of self-defeating development.

 

OK, since we are discussing technical dept... what will accumulate more off it...

 

Making and debugging a complex system on relative simple and bare to the bones system and then when bug-free integrating it on more complex system?

 

OR

 

Making it and debugging it on very complex system along side complex integration with lot of other dependencies?

Edited October 18, 2019 by FoxAlfa

[Rudel_chw]

Do not feed the trolls... :-)

 

 

:( they are hard to ignore .. I usually add them to my Ignore List, but as this is this person's first post I fell onto his trap :(

[*Aquila*]

Sometimes I wonder what the average age is of the people on the ED forums.

I thought it would be around 40ish, but after reading so much entitled whining and complaining the past few months, and sometimes even namecalling and sugarcoated threats, I sincerly believe it's more like 12ish.

Thank God, we don't have 8 YOs whining about the other ones whining :D

[oldcrusty]

Sometimes I wonder what the average age is of the people on the ED forums.

I thought it would be around 40ish, but after reading so much entitled whining and complaining the past few months, and sometimes even namecalling and sugarcoated threats, I sincerly believe it's more like 12ish.

 

You haven't seen anything yet... wait till grumpy old man (moi:mad:) chime in! Just wait till all 12yr old and grumps unite...

but first I gotta get my checklists ready for the new update... maybe there are some unlisted changes, hmm. Nah:joystick:

[NineLine]

Dear pilots, I know the TWS news wasnt great for everyone, and I know there are some strong opinions and feelings here, but please try to respect each other and their opinions. We appreciate all the support and all the feedback.

[felidae9]

Hey I'll make you a deal. You guys can have TWS for the 18 if I get all the stuff the 18 has now my 16 doesn't.

[falcon_120]

I don't know how you guys see it, but for me this little #first_world_problems we see around here are also part of the fun.

[hanab]

Dear pilots, I know the TWS news wasnt great for everyone, and I know there are some strong opinions and feelings here, but please try to respect each other and their opinions. We appreciate all the support and all the feedback.

 

I think that the better way is to add tws on the viper and hornet on the same patch/time !

[Keks]

Yes, that works because every radar in DCS is similar. They should just have ported over the TWS from the Mig-29.....

 

/s

[Tippis]

OK, since we are discussing technical dept... what will accumulate more off it...

 

Making and debugging a complex system on relative simple and bare to the bones system and then when bug-free integrating it on more complex system?

 

OR

 

Making it and debugging it on very complex system along side complex integration with lot of other dependencies?

c) Adding more and more complex systems because you apparently need that to keep the lights on, but never adjusting the output to what the input can support (or vice versa).

 

But again, you're offering a good argument why the Hornet should have gotten TWS long before the Viper.

[FoxAlfa]

c) Adding more and more complex systems because you apparently need that to keep the lights on, but never adjusting the output to what the input can support (or vice versa).

 

OK, classical deflection... trying to offer a superficial alternative to a binary question, you ether develop it on Viper (option A) or Hornet (option B)... there isn't option C... so deflection pointless and an unargumented here.

 

But again, you're offering a good argument why the Hornet should have gotten TWS long before the Viper.

 

Repeating something without providing a concrete answer doesn't make it true, my arguments are very clear why at current state getting first TWS on Viper, and then on the Hornet, would mean that we would as SUM we would get TWS on BOTH SOONER.

 

Yet you are using deflection and miss direction so caring this discussion is pointless, sorry but I am not buy it any more, thank you for your time and enjoy the patch.