Why is the Viper getting TWS before the Hornet?

[USA_Recon]

Considering F-16 doesn't have TWS yet... maybe this was a bit premature (or immature? lol) of a post...

[A2597]

As a Hornet driver since day one, well in fact I don't have a strong opinion on the topic, but it seems everyone and their mother are posting in here and I just want to feel like I belong. Hello everyone! <3

 

 

This is pretty much me.

Way I see it, Viper and Hornet are going to have a lot of cross-code at this point. What one gets, the other gets shortly after. Figure TWS was easier to implement in Viper, and they were already on it, so there you go.

 

 

PR wise, it may have made more sense to say that both are getting it at the same time, but...meh.

[Airhunter]

Reasons we need TWS ASAP. Seriously, when?

[med-taha]

Figure TWS was easier to implement in Viper, and they were already on it

 

See this post by Wags:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3753757&postcount=109

 

TWS for the Hornet has been in development 9 months.

Edited October 18, 2019 by med-taha

[Airhunter]

Noice.

[flyingace]

It’s because the viper is infinitely superior to the hornet so it’s the favourite child

[Harlikwin]

Reasons we need TWS ASAP. Seriously, when?

 

Is that blueflag? LoFL... :lol:

[key_stroked]

All feed back is welcome as long as it is courteous, the team do take it on board, good and bad.

 

Thanks

 

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

[Baco]

Well, not happy here either.

 

It not being a "primma donna" (I don´t even fly the hornet, just bought it to support ED) My fave aircraft is Viggen followed closely by the A-4 Mod. Its a matter of principle, discipline and respecting your own word given to the customers in the shape of a tacit contract when we bought the F/A-18 Hornet... Not to mention the bugs introduced in each and every update....

 

Finnish one product for Petes sake.

[med-taha]

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

 

sums up everything!

Thanks :thumbup:

[NineLine]

NineLine - I agree.

 

Can you please follow-up with the team and speak a little bit about the effort you suspect it will take to get it from the Viper into the Hornet after it releases? Are we talking a week? a month? Two months? Is it unknown?

 

When I go back and read both yours, BN and Wags' messages on this topic it sounds relatively quick. This sort of goes back to my original premise of managing expectations.

 

This would help me and others, I think.

 

Hey Guppy, I will see if I can get a bit better description on how it all works, I am sure I do it no justice in how I explain it :)

 

All I know that development, testing and implementation should all be helpful towards the same tasks for the Hornet.

[jeffham222]

Unmet expectations are the root of all unhappiness.

 

It looks like most people here are upset about it and the reasons seem to be valid. Given the reasons for the lag (assumedly being real), may I suggest a plan of action for ED? I don't mean to be dismissive or talk down to anyone by making this so simple...

 

When I'm at work and the boss tasks me with something and asks how long it is going to take, I add ~10-25% to the total time I believe it would take to accomplish that task depending on how much is involved. If a task will take me an hour under normal circumstances, I'll say, "just over an hour to an hour and 15-20 minutes". This gives the boss man a reasonable amount of time to allow me to work.

 

So what do ya think happens? As long as he is previously agreeable to the length of time, I win. That gives me wiggle room in case something comes up out of my control, and if everything goes exceedingly well and I get it done in 45-50 minutes, I have exceeded the boss's expectations--and I win even more. I know not everyone has a job like this that allows this type of conversation, but I would assume this is reasonable with ED.

 

I'm not lying about the time it takes to do something--as my boss (like most) is probably at least minimally familiar with what he is tasking you to do--I am giving him a window of when to expect the task to be complete. Of course, when I go to do the task, I must be diligent and do things as quickly as I can because if I screw off, and he sees it, it's "bye-bye, HAM"--and no one wants that.

 

So, maybe ED should do something similar. They should have an idea of what it takes to do this stuff, so why not give yourselves a reasonable amount of wiggle room? ED is literally in control of this... As long as they are diligent, there shouldn't be too much complaining. It seems they give us a wait time that is too short more than we like in hopes of satiating us, but it fails more than what people are happy with--and unfortunately on things people really want.

 

Instead of saying, "two weeks" just take a risk and crush our petty hopes and dreams and say, "Yo, listen up--this Hornet radar thingy is fu*&%d... it's gonna be AT LEAST another four months until we ready to give ya TWS... ATFLIR? Plan on next June..." Yeah, people are gonna riot, but they will always riot. At least now, we can say, "ok, four months. FML. That should be enough time, hopefully..." And then ED busts their butts to get this together.

 

Personally (while admitting I am FULLY, 100% COMPLETELY CLUELESS as to what all is involved), I think TWS and other things for the Hornet should probably be out by now, but instead they took more on (like the walleye--seriously? Yeah, I know it will be fun and the AWW-13 pod will be used for the SLAM-ER, but seriously? Wasted effort, guys...) instead of finishing their plate.

 

Anyway, that is my $.25. I ain't mad at ya, but like most others, I wish I could have a fully functional model, but I can't. What can I do about it? Nothing past make a suggestion that may or may not help for the future.

 

TL;DR--Just tell us the stuff is gonna take longer than what it may in normal circumstances.

[Cytarabine]

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

 

I couldn’t agree more. When I purchased the Hornet the Viper had not been announced. The Hornet is in early access, we know this, and we know that means that we are buying into something that is feature incomplete for an indeterminate amount of time. However the quid pro quo of the faith we place in a developer by handing over our money on a promise is that they will give their 100% commitment to delivering.

 

For me the answer is simple, without substantial progress in the Hornet there is little reason to buy the carrier module when that drops. If there is that progress, then if course I will get it, as it serves a purpose.

 

I’m not angry... I’m just disappointed.

[will-]

i've said this before, ED will develop those systems and then we will start to see more advanced planes.

 

It's been stated by even wags it works this way now. Not too sure why anyone is disappointed in this.

 

Currently couldn't thank them enough for releasing and improving this game for free.(yes they do updates to dcs world constantly).

[billeinstein]

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

 

You are lucky, since the F-18 comes first, then comes the F-16. We are customers, too.

ED are developing many products. F-18 and F-16 are just two of them. Others are just not ready to release yet. You can't let all other developments stoped. If ED must develop a project after all others are completed, your F-18 even could not be available yet.

Edited October 19, 2019 by billeinstein

[David OC]

ED perhaps could have explained it a little better. The way I see it is the coding now is even more modulated and it now makes sense / cost effective to paralleled build some systems here and push them both forward.

 

We do this at work with many jobs, all businesses do to some extent.

 

Even at the mechanic workshop. Would they put all their mechanics on your car or the best guy for the specific job needed doing x job? General service a mechanic or apprentice is fine. If another car comes in should they leave it there not worked on and have all the team fighting over the top of each other, still working just on your car?

 

These guy's are deep in code on "specific" things at the moment, it makes sense to me (running a business) to keep them at it, while in the zone for "Insert system" and keep pushing forward. The base code they are building here should help with many new "other" advanced fighters with ground radar etc etc also in the future.

 

 

This all comes back to why things can take soooo long to do. This is very high tech coding going on here and throwing more and more coders at the problems to solve is not necessarily a good thing. Unless you want to rewrite the buggy mess for the next X years at the end. Then you have the problem of others trying to decode what others have done in the first place.

 

 

 

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

Edited October 19, 2019 by David OC

[MacEwan]

My best guess is that it's quicker and more efficient to keep the guys that were moved from the Hornet to the Viper shortly before the Viper's release on the Viper to finish some systems (e.g. TWS) and then move them back to the Hornet implement the same structure. It would take longer to have a another developer step into half finished code than it would take to let the same dev(s) finish it on the Viper and then move back to the Hornet to implement the same systems.

[hanab]

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

 

:thumbup::thumbup:

[Panthir]

I have just decided, I will never pre-purchase again an ED product.

[rrohde]

The real question is - why did the F-18 come out before the F-16? I am ready to get my pitchfork out, since I like the F-16 so much more and had to wait so much longer for it, blah blah blah. ;)

 

These threads should really be locked on the first page as they're nothing but toxic.

 

Thanks.

[Andrei]

There's not much toxic about it. People are venting, for a reason. Whether community can or cannot do something about - different question. But it might be better to let vent and chill down rather than abandon the project altogether :)

[petsild]

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

The same opinion has 99% of the users of the Hornet module.

[Arctander]

Well then here's mine, as an ED customer who bought the F-18.

 

When I bought it, the hype and marketing surrounding it made out the Hornet to be ED's flagship product, which made me think it would be their absolute priority and focus. The initial excitement eventually wore off as the months dragged on and key parts of the jet were still unfinished.

Even so, I told myself, "it's early access, that's just how this is going to go". And I patiently waited for ED to fully finish this flagship product.

 

I would have bet money if someone told me at the Hornet launch that ED would announce and then release a brand new jet...the Viper, of all iconic jets...in less then a year, while the Hornet sat unfinished. "No way", I would have told that person. They wouldn't just leave their flagship product on the sidelines! That's crazy.

If I had bet...I would be eating those dollar bills right now. Not only did ED go from announcement to release of a brand new airframe in less then a year, they did so while their shining star product took a backseat.

 

Despite assurances that the development of this new plane wouldn't impact the F-18 development in any way, shape or form, they pulled development support away from the Hornet so they could shove the Viper out the door. And now, after hearing that the Viper is getting features that the Hornet was supposed to have, it leaves a SUPER sour taste in my mouth.

 

If I had known back at the Hornet release what I know right now, I would have never purchased the Hornet. I paid ED money to help them develop and support the module the money was meant for...not to wait while ED staff is pulled off to sell another unfinished product.

 

If ED had the staff to fully develop two products at the same time, I would have no problem with that. But that's not the case, as we've clearly seen. ED doesn't have the capability to develop two products concurrently, and abandoning one, even temporarily, makes ED look greedy and incapable of delivering on their customers' investments.

 

So call me childish if you want....I really don't care about public perception. I'm a consumer who gave money to a company with the expectations my money would go towards a specific thing, and that thing would be the company's priority.

 

As NineLine said in a recent reddit post, neither product has a priority over the other, and that's why I regret buying the F-18 and also why I won't be purchasing anything else from Eagle Dynamics if this Early Access model is the way they continue to do business.

 

Great post. Sums up my thoughts more eloquently.

 

I will not be purchasing any further Ed products until they have regained my faith, and that will not be a quick job.

[TOYKILLA]

Finally, if one Module get TWS,the other one will get it in a short Time later.

 

To be Safe,buy Both,Support ED and you a Safe, to get it first. ☻

 

Gesendet von meinem SM-G973F mit Tapatalk

[Oceandar]

I don't think waiting for a week or two for Hornet tws implementation its not big deal IMHO. I've waited years since Lomac day for the Hornet. Besides TWS is not that great anyway. Its nice feature but I wont rely on it. Whats so fuss about it. Viper gets TWS first is fine for me. Hornet has DL, Ltws to counter it, 10 spamraams.... lol. Not big deal IMHO.

 

Just my 2 cents. Carry on gents...