F/A-18 vs F-16 Turn rate?

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged

[karasawa]

7 hours ago, SCPanda said:

In DCS, a Hornet can outrate a Viper without pulling paddle by rating at 350-360 knots (Viper flying his proper rate speed at 430). 

 

At sea level yes, above 10000 feet no.

 

Try clean or load up with 6 amraams and do the test for both jets at 10000 feet, and maintain 450 Knots IAS (not TAS) in a Viper.

Edited April 23, 2021 by karasawa

[Snappy]

2 hours ago, karasawa said:

 

At sea level yes, above 10000 feet no.

 

Try load up with 6 amraams and do the test for both jets at 10000 feet, and maintain 450 Knots IAS (not TAS) in a Viper.

 

Why would you keep 6 amraams under the wings for a close in fight? It's not like you get to use them afterwards if the other guy jettisons his to get light and kills you.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Snappy

[karasawa]

27 minutes ago, Snappy said:

Why would you keep 6 amraams under the wings for a close in fight? It's not like you get to use them afterwards if the other guy jettisons his to get light and kills you.

 

 

You can also test the clean case. No difference.

F-16 is more sensitive to external stores.

Edited April 23, 2021 by karasawa

[Snappy]

11 minutes ago, karasawa said:

You can also test the clean case. No difference.

F-16 is more sensitive to external stores.

 

Ah ok, get it now. Thanks man!

Edited April 23, 2021 by Snappy

[Hammer1-1]

I definitely notice a difference when I have pylons or missiles attached to my hornet, so I dont think drag is underdeveloped. Takes a lot more fuel to maintain energy than with a slick jet. Others noticed an even bigger difference when they have BRU racks loaded up with multiple munitions.

[Thunder_]

Hi Bignewy and thanks for the response, I'm very happy to help and do that !! will be a pleasure to see the new viper updates tnx 

20 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi,

 

the viper flight model is work in progress and we have a flight model review planned, I have no ETA for you at the moment. 

 

I would suggest waiting until the viper is complete then review the flight model then, if you still think it is performing below where it should be we welcome your track replays and data so we can compare. 

 

thanks 

Bignewy

Hi Bignewy and thanks for the response, I'm very happy to help with that !! will be a pleasure to see the new viper updates on one the best ED modules  tnx 

[wilbur81]

18 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

I definitely notice a difference when I have pylons or missiles attached to my hornet, so I dont think drag is underdeveloped. Takes a lot more fuel to maintain energy than with a slick jet. Others noticed an even bigger difference when they have BRU racks loaded up with multiple munitions.

Correct 

[TobiasA]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Snappy:

Why would you keep 6 amraams under the wings for a close in fight? It's not like you get to use them afterwards if the other guy jettisons his to get light and kills you.

 

 

 

I use AIM-120s in a turning fight if I get enough room for them, and I have never jettisoned AA weaponry. 

[jaguara5]

 Interesting read.  

https://hushkit.net/2021/01/15/rhino-charge-flying-fighting-in-the-super-hornet/

Rate the F-18F in the following areas:

Instantaneous turn rates

“Outstanding. Better than anybody else out there we fought save the F-22.”

Sustained turn rates

“Good, but the Air Force jobs like the F-15 and F-16 were better unless we were completely slick (no tanks or pylons). For a while, our squadron had a jet with no tanks on it that we were using for airshow practice. We’d take that thing out and BFM in it when we weren’t practicing. That thing would eat even the F-15s and F-16s for lunch

Edited May 4, 2021 by jaguara5

[Hammer1-1]

F-18E/F are a different animal when it comes to BFM than the F-18C/D. Even though the flight characteristics are similar, the Rhino can pull more AoA and sustain it for better lengths of time.

[Mover]

55 minutes ago, jaguara5 said:

 Interesting read.  

https://hushkit.net/2021/01/15/rhino-charge-flying-fighting-in-the-super-hornet/

Rate the F-18F in the following areas:

Instantaneous turn rates

“Outstanding. Better than anybody else out there we fought save the F-22.”

Sustained turn rates

“Good, but the Air Force jobs like the F-15 and F-16 were better unless we were completely slick (no tanks or pylons). For a while, our squadron had a jet with no tanks on it that we were using for airshow practice. We’d take that thing out and BFM in it when we weren’t practicing. That thing would eat even the F-15s and F-16s for lunch

 

 

Written by an NFO.    

[deadpool]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:17 AM, Youda said:

Be glad the switch increases the permited G load only to about 9. In F-14 you can still turn 17 Gs In F-15 12.

 

If the F-15 (F100?) was with full cockpit you'd also have everyone pull the VMax every time.

[Spurts]

Sure, you can pull 17G in the Tomcat, the wings will probably rip off, your Nav is gone, and better than 50% that you lost the gunsight too.  So worth it to not get best rate or radius. 

[darkman222]

Pull 17 G , get the kill, then eject and get a fresh F14, because the manovering flaps are stuck anyway. Seems worth for some people on the dogfight servers at least. Wasnt that a thread about turn rates anyway? ;)

[SCPanda]

On 5/5/2021 at 5:51 AM, Mover said:

 

Written by an NFO.    

Hahaha. Also super bug is different from legacy bug right? I mean we don't have super bug in DCS. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by SCPanda

[totmacher]

FA-18C_hornet vs F-16C_50

https://dcs.silver.ru/64,53

 

FA-18C_hornet vs F-16C_50  (without Pylons)

https://dcs.silver.ru/66,65

[Mover]

2 hours ago, SCPanda said:

Hahaha. Also super bug is different from legacy bug right? I mean we don't have super bug in DCS. 

 

 

Nah, he's just wrong and doesn't understand how the turn rate formula works. First dissimilar aircraft I ever fought in the Viper was a clean F.  He tried to go two circle with me.  It did not end well for them.

 

(degrees per second) = (Gradial x 1092)/KTAS

 

You can see G is a big part of the equation.  The only place a Hornet can get a better turn rate is where it can pull more G for a given speed.  

Edited May 10, 2021 by Mover

[SCPanda]

16 hours ago, totmacher said:

FA-18C_hornet vs F-16C_50

https://dcs.silver.ru/64,53

 

FA-18C_hornet vs F-16C_50  (without Pylons)

https://dcs.silver.ru/66,65

Is the turn time sustained or instantaneous? 

[totmacher]

5 часов назад, SCPanda сказал:

Is the turn time sustained or instantaneous? 

Of course this is sustained turn.

[SCPanda]

37 minutes ago, totmacher said:

Of course this is sustained turn.

Thx. So this confirms that in DCS, F-18 out turns F-16 in all speed ranges and has tighter radius. 

[feipan]

Didn't we establish that for a long time now? 

[darkman222]

@totmacher great work with the charts. I just discovered you have it for every DCS aircraft, also with flaps down!

Question: In your testing for the chart, was the G-loc modelling the limiting factor for the F16 or did you test it without g-loc?

[sylkhan]

DCS F-18 is way overperforming.

[Hammer1-1]

Im just going to throw this in here. I KNOW he didnt use the paddle switch, but this kind of proves my point the F-16 isnt much of a slouch against a Hornet. And before you say its a Rhino, no.