Anyone else consider DCS: F-5E as underpowered for DCS environment

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I like this module. A lot. I like the aircraft it is modeled on, a lot. But it does feel underpowered vs. other types in its threat ecosystem. Mig-21Bis , Mig-21bis AI, Mig-23 AI, and F-14A AI.

[Rudel_chw]

The F-5E is a light fighter derived from a trainer, with two 3.500 lb engines (5,000 lb each when in AB) .. the MiG-21bis is an interceptor with one engine of 9,000 lb (15,600 with AB) ... so, I would say that The simulation is correct. 

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I like this module. A lot. I like the aircraft it is modeled on, a lot. But it does feel underpowered vs. other types in its threat ecosystem. Mig-21Bis , Mig-21bis AI, Mig-23 AI, and F-14A AI.

 

The better counterpart would be a 70s F-4 Phantom - which is a much more appropriate counterpart to the MiG-21bis. As Rudel said, the F-5E was an evolution of a light fighter based on a jet trainer mostly intended for export.

[Svend_Dellepude]

On the cold war server against MiG-21 you will be good, in MP that is.In modern warfare it's completely outdated.

[WinterH]

F-5E is, what F-5E is. And this whole "DCS environment" thing is, whatever player puts into mission editor, or whatever server they join. This is a sandbox, it has no set environment in my opinion.

 

It is a match for things like MiG-21Bis and MiG-19P I'd say, perhaps up to Viggen. One should not expect it to do wonders against 4th gen throughbred fighters anyway.

Also, it can mix it up against things like L-39, C-101, Korean War era birds. Also the MB-339, and A-4E mods. Think of these as bush-war, conflict between less fortunate countries etc kind of deal.

 

That said, I wouldn't say no to a refreshed addition to the module with more air to air wired pylons, and perhaps also mavericks. Just like the A-10C & A-10C II situation.

[mayo25]

The F-5E is a light fighter whom can beat all 3rd generation fighters,as well the 4th ones ( specially the JF17 ).

[2alpha-down0]

On 3/7/2021 at 2:05 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I like this module. A lot. I like the aircraft it is modeled on, a lot. But it does feel underpowered vs. other types in its threat ecosystem. Mig-21Bis , Mig-21bis AI, Mig-23 AI, and F-14A AI.

 

Flown correctly, the F-5 can compete with and beat everything you listed.  It will definitely be at a disadvantage in some respects, but not hopelessly so.

[Exorcet]

The F-5 is an underpowered aircraft by it's nature. It's a budget fighter. However the maneuverability is pretty decent for its time and it should be a good match for aircraft like the MiG-21 (barring AI inaccuracies).

 

One thing to keep in mind though is that tactics have a lot to do with who wins and who loses. It's not always about raw aircraft performance. Again the AI kind of muffles this with sometimes unrealistic SA and overtuned FM's that don't have the correct weaknesses to exploit, but you can still try to avoid a head on fight and negate many of the disadvantages of your aircraft.

[SorelRo]

Don't forget that it is a muti-role aircraft, the version we have I would say it is more suited to a CAS role than a true fighter. It can carry quite a lot of ground ordinance, it has very capable guns,  and flown right it has enough loiter time to stick around. 

[Hamood]

On 3/7/2021 at 2:17 PM, mayo25 said:

The F-5E is a light fighter whom can beat all 3rd generation fighters,as well the 4th ones ( specially the JF17 ).

Youre crazy dude. The F-5E has only 2 old sidewinders while most 3rd and all 4th generation fighters can carry much more advanced missiles. Youre comparing planes made in the 50s to planes made in the late 70s through 90s. You're massive hate boner for the JF17 is bizarre as well dude.

[Lurker]

No one cares. The F5E is a great little fighter, that's fun to fly and fight in. 

[Get_Lo]

I dare say it competes very well against the MiG-21 in a dogfight, you out turn him at 320knts and you retain energy better.

[Baaz]

On 3/17/2021 at 4:25 PM, Hamood said:

Youre crazy dude. The F-5E has only 2 old sidewinders while most 3rd and all 4th generation fighters can carry much more advanced missiles. Youre comparing planes made in the 50s to planes made in the late 70s through 90s. You're massive hate boner for the JF17 is bizarre as well dude.

Calm down mate.  He didn't say HOW they would be beaten; just that it could beat all third and fourth gen fighters. 

 

If you think about it, he's absolutely correct.  Any Fox-2 missile can destroy any aircraft.  Bullets in the air, can destroy any aircraft.  If the F-5 can get a jump on the 3rd or 4th gen, it can absolutely destroy it.

The F-5 is my favorite bird (aside from helos).  Sure I come out on the losing end a lot... A LOT; but it's so incredibly satisfying when the F-5 brings down a more advanced aircraft.  A good GCI and the F-5 can make dreams come true!  

[G.J.S]

14 hours ago, Baaz said:

Calm down mate.  He didn't say HOW they would be beaten; just that it could beat all third and fourth gen fighters. 

 

If you think about it, he's absolutely correct.  Any Fox-2 missile can destroy any aircraft.  Bullets in the air, can destroy any aircraft.  If the F-5 can get a jump on the 3rd or 4th gen, it can absolutely destroy it.

The F-5 is my favorite bird (aside from helos).  Sure I come out on the losing end a lot... A LOT; but it's so incredibly satisfying when the F-5 brings down a more advanced aircraft.  A good GCI and the F-5 can make dreams come true!  

Well put sir.

It really does boil down to the meat behind the stick. You can have the greatest bang-whiz aircraft of all time, but if you have a derp flying it . . . Well.

Same in reverse, you can have a supposedly outdated dinosaur of an aircraft hauling antique weaponry, but if the guy piloting it has any sort of moxie, well . . . . He will either make the opponent REALLY work hard for the kill, or he will spank the bang-whiz platinum plated new gen god plane and leave the pilot wondering what the f*ck just happened?!?

 

Old planes can really cause headaches for newer jets, never assume superiority.

[Aluminum Donkey]

On 3/7/2021 at 2:05 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I like this module. A lot. I like the aircraft it is modeled on, a lot. But it does feel underpowered vs. other types in its threat ecosystem. Mig-21Bis , Mig-21bis AI, Mig-23 AI, and F-14A AI.

 

It *is* underpowered. As in, the real aircraft wasn't what you'd call a thrust monster. It looked cool and handled great, but the F-5's pure turbojet engines were rather wimpy.

 

It was small, light, responsive, supersonic if you were patient enough, and as far as fighter jets go, it was pretty cheap. Corvettes look cool too, but don't expect to win any Formula One races with one.

 

No bug here.

AD

[DmitriKozlowsky]

F1 is open wheel racing like Indy 500. Corvettes participate in LeMans GT Group 1 or 2. But I get the idea.

[Dragon1-1]

The F-5E can give the 4th gen jets a run for their money in a dogfight, but in a realistic combat situation, BVR is a huge problem. Its Sidewinders are OK, but just don't have the range, and no matter how good it can turn, it has trouble running from AMRAAMs or even R-27s and has nothing to shoot back with at that range. 

[TLTeo]

Even in a strictly WVR fight, the F-5E is inferior to fancy 4th gen jets under all measurable aspects of performance: acceleration, instantaneous turn rate, sustained turn rate, climb rate, BFM radar modes, you name it. But it's close enough to those jets that it can still be dangerous. And that's OK, it's not meant to be the ultimate air to air fighter anyway. People need to either accept DCS modules for what they are, and either fly in scenarios built accordingly or accept that airquake is just a fun videogame with good flight models, no more and no less.

[mayo25]

Is the fight between an human F5 Vs an human JF17, done ?

Edited May 10, 2021 by mayo25

[Rakkis]

4 hours ago, mayo25 said:

Is the fight between an human F5 Vs an human JF17, done ?

 

The thread we discussed it in was deleted and Doc (I think) never DM'd me.

[mayo25]

12 hours ago, Rakkis said:

The thread we discussed it in was deleted and Doc (I think) never DM'd me.

I have sent a message to Doc. Let see what he will say.

[Rifter]

Keith "Okie" Nance once said, the F-5 could easily be beaten by a Piper Cup or a F-172…but he did admit it was a fun jet to fly. He especially highlighted the easy and effortless operation of the F-5.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Rifter

[Pzkfw]

The primary flaw in this module is the lack of a correctly functioning RWR. In an environment which heavily features multiple radar guided missiles (such as in multiplayer) this is a critical failure and makes the F-5e extremely difficult to use well when in combination of all its other issues such as Fox-2 limitations, etc. 
 

The RWR is there, and it should work well, but it doesn’t. There are many threads about it. The problem has been known for years by the developers, but inexplicably isn’t fixed. It is a huge shame, because it is otherwise an extremely cool, asymmetrically simple but efficient little jet.