Announcing the F-4 Phantom for DCS World!

[MAXsenna]

In my opinion both F-4 and F-15 suffer from the same issue in DCS, and that's the maps. Why buy an F-4 or F-15 if there's no ODS map or Afghanistan. (or Vietnam) I'm just fed up flying over strait of hormuz or Syria pretending to fight some fictional war and wonder why we don't deserve an actual combat maps for US assets.
I heard Afghanistan was coming, but it seems like it's very low priority. Last year's flood of strange map announcements and the release of South Atlantic (at $70) really killed my optimism and discourages me from spending any more money on this sim.
Sometimes I think about asking HB or ED how to become a map developer... Because someone needs to get it done. There's so many stories, tales, documentaries, interviews and whatnot about major conflicts and it sucks we can't fly these missions in DCS.

Huh? Sinai and Kola are quite relevant. The Aussi one is a little odd of course.
Afghanistan is coming, so are Korea and Nam, but ED has dibs on all of them, so it's going to be hard finding a popular relevant map now, unless it's a WWII one.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Nahen]

Wee neeed global map !!!!!!

[Mikep821]

10 hours ago, Rick50 said:

A year ago none were DCS modules... now all three are in development!

And ED said recently that at some point in future they'll make an ff Mig-29

Maybe someone soon will consider making the Starfighter...

 

Yeah, if you wait like 20 years

look how F-4 is looking, no release date, nothing from HB and thez were like: Yeah we are comfy with december 2022 or early 2023 .... now is where ? late 2023 ? kinda joke... but still gonna buy it, just getting kinda pissed about the customer support 

[Nahen]

1 minute ago, Mikep821 said:

Yeah, if you wait like 20 years

look how F-4 is looking, no release date, nothing from HB and thez were like: Yeah we are comfy with december 2022 or early 2023 .... now is where ? late 2023 ? kinda joke... but still gonna buy it, just getting kinda pissed about the customer support 

In a moment, it will start a riot like in topics about the F-15E

when will it come out? When it's ready Just like with the F-15E, over 10 years of waiting and I'm finally happy because I spent money on it And I still don't have it But it doesn't stop me from enjoying this fact

[Mikep821]

2 minutes ago, Nahen said:

In a moment, it will start a riot like in topics about the F-15E

when will it come out? When it's ready Just like with the F-15E, over 10 years of waiting and I'm finally happy because I spent money on it And I still don't have it But it doesn't stop me from enjoying this fact

Sure, cause everyone buy it, everyone enjoy it. I just saying that some comunication would be great, cause this doesnt look good...

I am technician on AF helis and if something goes wrong i need to fill my sheldule, or say whats wrong and when its gonna be... they obviously dont have to, but would be nice to dont look like di*ks

[Dannyvandelft]

Personally I love the Syria Map, and I'm excited for Sinai since it's the same developer.

A feature I'd like to see is if you could fly from one map into the other seamlessly.

Marianas proved they need to do A LOT of work on forested maps. So a Vietnam map might be a while off. I mean you can drop a mk84 on a tank, but if there's a tree in the way, nothing.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Nahen]

Hmmm, changing the fuse to the "tail" one often solves this problem.

[QuiGon]

7 hours ago, 79Au said:

In my opinion both F-4 and F-15 suffer from the same issue in DCS, and that's the maps. Why buy an F-4 or F-15 if there's no ODS map or Afghanistan. (or Vietnam) I'm just fed up flying over strait of hormuz or Syria pretending to fight some fictional war and wonder why we don't deserve an actual combat maps for US assets.

I heard Afghanistan was coming, but it seems like it's very low priority. Last year's flood of strange map announcements and the release of South Atlantic (at $70) really killed my optimism and discourages me from spending any more money on this sim.

Sometimes I think about asking HB or ED how to become a map developer... Because someone needs to get it done. There's so many stories, tales, documentaries, interviews and whatnot about major conflicts and it sucks we can't fly these missions in DCS.

You are aware that Iran (Persian Gulf map) is a major user of the Tomcat as well as the Phantom up to this very day, unlike the US that has retired both aircraft? Also Turkey (Syria map) is also operating the Phantom.

And in regards to the Strike Eagle and current DCS maps:

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by QuiGon

[MAXsenna]

Personally I love the Syria Map, and I'm excited for Sinai since it's the same developer.

A feature I'd like to see is if you could fly from one map into the other seamlessly.

Minor correction. Syria is made by Ugra, and Sinai by OnReTech. ED has also stated we cannot seamlessly fly between maps with the current technology.
I wish we could though.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Dannyvandelft]

Minor correction. Syria is made by Ugra, and Sinai by OnReTech. ED has also stated we cannot seamlessly fly between maps with the current technology.
I wish we could though.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

Ah my bad! I thought they came from the same developer.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Gianky]

Guys, I think you're all missing the point 79Au was trying to make: he doesn't care about other users of the Phantom or the F-15, he wants terrains where US forces fought wars, like Iraq (which I would like very much, too), Vietnam or Afghanistan.

[Kalasnkova74]

2 minutes ago, Gianky said:

Guys, I think you're all missing the point 79Au was trying to make: he doesn't care about other users of the Phantom or the F-15, he wants terrains where US forces fought wars, like Iraq (which I would like very much, too), Vietnam or Afghanistan.

We’re certainly fighting in Syria. 

[Gianky]

Oh, sure. But you don't have to tell me that, it's 79Au that is not satisfied with the current terrain selection: I guess he wants more iconic maps for US past wars.

Personally, I'd like to have more theaters, too, but I can wait for them, and I know that I can use the F-4 and the other aircrafts on the ones we have, even though not always under the banners I'd like.

[Heinlein]

It is true that the phantom was used and can be used on all of the maps we currently have but what I believe 79Au tried to say here was that it lacks the theater that most people associate with the phantom namely Vietnam. But we are getting some good signals from ED that they want to make such a map. But as others have pointed out, the phantom have been flown in combat over Sinai, syria and the persian gulf so there is no lacking in theaters 

[Biggus]

I'm sure Vietnam is an inevitability at this point.  It might mean waiting until DCS is able to handle destructable vegetation, but that can't be more than two weeks away.  The other problem is that most of the assets we have from around that time turn out to be just a little bit too new.  The Fishbed is post-war, the SA-2s we have I believe are also post war, the Tiger II is post war, the coming A-7E is looking like it will be post-war, the A-6E is likely post-war, and so on.  None of this is to say that it's impossible.  Far from it.  I'm certain it will happen.  We might actually just be held back until common consumer hardware is able to deal with the problem of fighting over large swathes of jungle and hopefully by that time, appropriate modules will be available.  That's how I see it, anyway.

[Bananabrai]

22 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Also Turkey (Syria map) is also operating the Phantom.

Don't forget IDF/AF. They heavily used F-4Es as well, not only over the coming Sinai map, but also in the Bekaa Valley.

On 2/19/2023 at 7:48 AM, 79Au said:

Last year's flood of strange map announcements and the release of South Atlantic (at $70) really killed my optimism and discourages me from spending any more money on this sim.

Well, what should I say?

As above said by quite a few poeple, Sinai and PG terrain already know Phantoms, Falklands was a playground for UK Phantoms and is a very nice map that gets constants updates (contrary to Syria), Kola area for sure was a playground for Keflavik US Phantoms (and other european useres from time to time) and would have been a very hot real one in case of an even un-smarter humanity.
We already have quite a few US planes that are not even trying to simulate other nations service.
So from my side I am very happy that we get the maps at least. Otherwise we could only play in the name of the greatest nation ever.

[Silver_Dragon]

26 minutes ago, Bananabrai said:

Don't forget IDF/AF. They heavily used F-4Es as well, not only over the coming Sinai map, but also in the Bekaa Valley.

Well, what should I say?

As above said by quite a few poeple, Sinai and PG terrain already know Phantoms, Falklands was a playground for UK Phantoms and is a very nice map that gets constants updates (contrary to Syria).

Syria was a release and 3 expansions.

[Bananabrai]

40 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Syria was a release and 3 expansions.

I was talking about updates in terms of bug-fixes and patches for issues. 

My personal experience was better with Razbam than with Ugra about the bugs I personally reported.

[LanceCriminal86]

The desire for Vietnam is logical, but the modules with very few exceptions just aren't going to accurately fit that conflict. A late-70s to 80s version of a jet isn't going to provide the same experience as one properly configured from '64 to '74/'75 or so, namely RHAW and RWR. The harrowing experiences from the earlier years as the SA-2 arrived on the scene and radar guided/assisted AA/AAA aren't going to play out the same way with a newer RWR system like the APR-36 and APR-37 that the Es received later.

To really get the full on Vietnam vibes it's going to take older versions of the modules, otherwise it's just a jungle map with 80s Cold War jets. So far I believe only the F-100D and A-1H that have been announced would be actually accurate to Vietnam. I was under the impression the MiG-21 and even MiG-19 were both post-war setups, as are the upcoming F-4E, A-7E, and eventual A-6E. And the Huey is a whole other ball of wax.

On the other hand, Marianas can work for having F-4Es from say Clark AFB or Seymour-Johnson, or even Osan/Korea plus excuses to have Korean and Japanese Es out there for exercises or some other fictional combat scenario. Syria as mentioned has use for Israeli, Turkish, even Greek F-4Es and US F-4Es if you strike the northern parts of Iraq from Turkey. PG covers IRIAF F-4Es. Nevada covers the USAF Weapons School. South Atlantic, completely fictional or just pretend it's Ace Combat I guess and do whatever you want. Caucuses you can mix in whatever I guess.

For upcoming maps, the Kola Peninsula works great for Cold War, with an excuse to bring the Air Defense Command F-4Es from Iceland into the picture. And the Sinai adds all the possibilities in for again Israeli and Egyptian Phantoms.

Edited February 20, 2023 by LanceCriminal86

[Stackup]

49 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

To really get the full on Vietnam vibes it's going to take older versions of the modules, otherwise it's just a jungle map with 80s Cold War jets. So far I believe only the F-100D and A-1H that have been announced would be actually accurate to Vietnam. I was under the impression the MiG-21 and even MiG-19 were both post-war setups, as are the upcoming F-4E, A-7E, and eventual A-6E. And the Huey is a whole other ball of wax.

Razbam has a completed model for the MiG-19S that's on the backburner right now given the F-15E and Red Star Simulations is well on their way to getting their MiG-17F ready to present to ED for 3rd party consideration so that's two more aircraft that fit the timeframe accurately. 

In regards to the other aircraft that are later variants to the ones that actually saw service in Vietnam, it seems clear to me that no one will not be making earlier variants of any of these aircraft so we need to accept what we have already.  Heatblur will in all likelihood not add another F-4E from 5+ years earlier than their current (post '74?) early variant and the same goes for seeing an A-6A or B along with the E.  I believe the A-7E we are getting is the closest since the E did serve in Vietnam afaik just maybe not this upgrade package or however it's differentiated.

I think most of the feel of Vietnam can be achieved with some imagination and the variants we are getting.  A good example of this is the Paradise Lost campaign from Reflected that has you fly both slick and gunship missions based on real reports and first hand accounts of missions from Vietnam.  Of course you are flying over the Marianas and not Vietnam and of course the Huey is not one of the many variants used in Vietnam, but the mission set and atmosphere made up for that in my opinion. 

That won't work for everyone I know, but to me it's better than having no Vietnam experience at all.

[Kalasnkova74]

I don’t think a “1-1” Vietnam era campaign is in the cards. But we can get close. A server with MiG-19S’ , MiG-17s, F-4s (RBs and VSNs) and others duking it out is close enough for me. 

[Biggus]

In the development timescales we're looking at, we can get incredibly close.  Look at the modules that have started development in the last six months.  It's almost as if ED have encouraged era-correct module development with a long term plan.  A late F-4J would fit within a Linebacker campaign with the exception of the smokeless engines, but that could almost just be a variable configured in the mission editor.  If that and the F-4E sell well enough, it would probably encourage HB to make an F-4D.  At that point, you'd be down to needing a MiG-21PF or PFM and then some AI assets - earlier SA-2, SA-7 (which I believe still exists in the game assets but is hidden), an EC-121, E-2B, and C-130B/E/H and you'd have a workable base.  With the time it will take for the game engine to support such an enormous map with unimaginably dense jungle, I think concerns about anachronistic modules are a bit premature.

Substitutions in the meantime will be necessary, but having the F-4E we are getting in a Vietnam campaign is a bit like having a 109K-4 in a Battle of Britain campaign in terms of user experience.  It's going to be an interesting few years.

[Rick50]

 

I think I read recently that there will be an update to the Mig-21 module?

 

I think as DCS Cold War grows in interest and module availability, we well get more tweeks and minor updates to other modules. MEaning, after a terrain showing that certain strip of land in South East Asia goes into development, existing module devs may well add earlier variants to match that era. 

 

On 2/19/2023 at 4:43 AM, Mikep821 said:

Yeah, if you wait like 20 years

look how F-4 is looking, no release date, nothing from HB and thez were like: Yeah we are comfy with december 2022 or early 2023 .... now is where ? late 2023 ? kinda joke... but still gonna buy it, just getting kinda pissed about the customer support 

 

Well that's retail "simulation edutainment" products for ya! Was true in 1995, 2005, 2015 and will be true in 2025, probably same in 2035. 

Out of all the combat flight simulation products, probably only 2% of them were released "on time" by way of announced ETA at project announcement. 2+ years  longer than the original forecast is NORMAL. As in maybe more than 50% of all projects.

Civilian aircraft, the ones that don't go BOOM, don't get radar lock, don't drop things onto targets, have fairly linear development, and is usually down to how much time and skills can be put to the project. This just simply isn't true for the cannons and missiles crowd. And for "Full Fidellity"... for the super-demanding expectations of the DCS ED customer, that just adds a huge level of complexity for the developer that devs for civilian aircraft modules don't deal with.

Go look at the history of Microprose's Falcon4.0 from announcement to launch, and then the aftermath... right now flight simulations, both combat and civilian, are experiencing a true "golden age" never seen before. But when you expect full realism for super-complex systems, it takes a LOT of time to do, and "brute forcing" that with money and bodies, might not scale very well.

To be honest, I'm just glad that there ARE developers like Heatblur, Eagle Dynamics, RAZBAM, Magnitude3, Aerges, Polychop, Kunos Simulazioni (hey I love cars too, so sue me!)... the industry realities had forced me long long ago to be patient, and almost completely ignore all proposed release dates as irrelevant fluff, because the only thing that matters is that when they decide to release, that it's as bug-free as they can achieve, is stable and offers a great experience. Don't feed me promises that you can't keep, or tease me with thousands of screenshots YEARS before release, just plug away at it until it's ready, or you run out of money or time. Don't worry about early hype, when it's ready and good, the masses will flock to it, credit card ready at the speed of "VISA"!

Edited February 21, 2023 by Rick50

[WarbossPetross]

4 часа назад, Rick50 сказал:

I think I read recently that there will be an update to the Mig-21 module?

They're planning to overhaul the MiG and bring it up to par with the current DCS standard once the Corsair is released. I don't think we'll be getting other models, even though I would pay for a PFM.

[Bremspropeller]

12 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

I don’t think a “1-1” Vietnam era campaign is in the cards. But we can get close. A server with MiG-19S’ , MiG-17s, F-4s (RBs and VSNs) and others duking it out is close enough for me. 

It's not close enough for me.

Don't forget about the F-100D, which I'd want to fly out of the Hoas and Da Nang.

Edit: Almost forgot about Phu Cat, the Spad and my two favourite chicks: Sandy and Misty.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Bremspropeller