Announcing the F-4 Phantom for DCS World!

[Czechnology]

5 hours ago, dcsil2pilot said:

I don't think that we can communicate anything other than the progress is good and that we're working hard to make it happen as soon as possible. We still need to finish some subjects before we can present our Phantom. It won't happen tomorrow or the day after, but it won't be as long as half a year before we start discussing and showing the details. Stay tuned

-From heatblur on Reddit

Closest thing to an update we'll get for now 

 

Which post did you get that from?

[AndytotheD]

3 hours ago, Czechnology said:

Which post did you get that from?

 

[Czechnology]

3 minutes ago, AndytotheD said:

 

Thanks!

[Raviar]

8 minutes ago, AndytotheD said:

 

if it will take less than half a year to show the details (pre-order  possibly), so it will take half a year or more for releasing it, i would be more happy if they gave us ETA previous year, at least I know what to expect now, I set my expectation on 4th quarter of 2023.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Raviar

[Germane]

Hmm, I must honestly say that this does surprise me. I would have expected it much sooner. Still in November, the goal was a 2022 release and also the radio silence I thought a sign that at least the big announcement is imminent

[AndytotheD]

36 minutes ago, Raviar said:

if it will take less than half a year to show the details (pre-order  possibly), so it will take half a year or more for releasing it, i would be more happy if they gave us ETA previous year, at least I know what to expect now, I set my expectation on 4th quarter of 2023.

 

I feel like it’s a stretch to interpolate that it will be a Q4 release from that statement. I put a lot of stock in what Iron Mike said in October (almost certainly too much) but if he was confident they would release in 2022 (in spite of all that happened to HB) why would it suddenly be so far from release?

Perhaps I’m being too optimistic?

Edited January 6, 2023 by AndytotheD

[Jaakov]

And I was joking that the Phantom will be released Q1 2024.  Mmmkay, see you after christmas...

[Horns]

18 minutes ago, AndytotheD said:

I feel like it’s a stretch to interpolate that it will be a Q4 release from that statement. I put a lot of stock in what Iron Mike said in October (almost certainly too much) but if he was confident they would release in 2022 (in spite of all that happened to HB) why would it suddenly be so far from release?

Perhaps I’m being too optimistic?

 

Maybe Q3, but not before. Looks like we can expect them to start "showing the details" around or after Easter (if we were going to start seeing stuff in three months I think he would have worded that differently), at least three months of hype videos and presale combined, so I don't see how we get it before July. Expecting Q4 should avoid disappointment.

Now that the question of making the initial timeline is closed, HB may well elect to do as they did for the F-14 and hold it back to get more finished than they would had they released last year. I don't think they'll hold it back beyond the end of this year (unless it's out of their hands), but I wouldn't bet they rush it out ASAP having just done the minimum if they can see an advantage in completing more before entering EA.

Again, just an opinion.

[Manhorne]

I would assume that they will say something officially very soon about the status. If not that is very poor customer relations.

But given it seems they are 6 months out from even showing anything ( I know the post said less than 6 months but 1 day short is less than 6 months) I would guess this thing will not be ready before the end of this year or maybe not even then. Given what seemed to be HB's optimistic statements all last year  I would have guessed it was much further along and we would see it at least before this spring but I do not feel that is the case now. All this is speculation of coarse but based on what we have seen and what tiny fraction of information we have. We could be 2 years out from seeing it. If even then... How long has the F4u Corsair been waiting at the gate? or any number of other aircraft being developed. Seeing what we were allowed to see in the ED vid the other day does give me some hope but I would rather just be 100% negative about it at this point as so not to be disappointed any more...

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Raviar said:

if it will take less than half a year to show the details (pre-order  possibly), so it will take half a year or more for releasing it, i would be more happy if they gave us ETA previous year, at least I know what to expect now, I set my expectation on 4th quarter of 2023.

 

Need remember all modules need been internal testing by ED to get a aproval, and plan a early access or release date.

[WinterH]

57 minutes ago, AndytotheD said:

Perhaps I’m being too optimistic?

Speaking from experience, yes, you are.

Decent DCS modules take a long time to develop, are hard to even quasi accurate date estimations on, are almost always delayed multiple times.

Sooner you adopt "they'll come when they come", more enjoyable the DCS experience becomes

No need to read any malice into devs proving inaccurate in their "hope to" dates either. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[Kalasnkova74]

On 1/5/2023 at 6:00 AM, MemphisBelle said:

Thats my wish as well, announce Modules when they have passed all obstacles and are pretty much ready to release. That would easy down the Community a lot.

Not feasible. The developers and ED would have to “classify” the development process to ensure the project is kept secret up to a confirmed launch date. Seeing as actual state secrets are not uncommonly leaked, I put the probability of this at a fat 0%. The moment a screenshot or bug report gets leaked we’re back to square one with the “are we there yet” chatter. 

What it comes down to is we just need to suck it up and be patient. If Pope Julius could wait four years for the Sistine Chapel, we can give Heatblur another 12-24 months. When it’s done, it’s done. 

[Mikep821]

Oh come on, 2022 was the release and its 6months plus ?

they gotta be kidding .... I mean there was trust from HB to 2022 release and yes delay can happen but if its a half a year, dont tell me that they didnt know its not going to be at 2022...

Im ok with that, but Im not ok with someone beiing full of sh*t

[AndytotheD]

2 hours ago, WinterH said:

Speaking from experience, yes, you are.

Decent DCS modules take a long time to develop, are hard to even quasi accurate date estimations on, are almost always delayed multiple times.

Sooner you adopt "they'll come when they come", more enjoyable the DCS experience becomes

No need to read any malice into devs proving inaccurate in their "hope to" dates either. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

My only argument to the contrare is to remind everyone how the Viggen kind of appeared out of nowhere

[Kalasnkova74]

17 minutes ago, Mikep821 said:

Oh come on, 2022 was the release and its 6months plus ?

they gotta be kidding .... I mean there was trust from HB to 2022 release and yes delay can happen but if its a half a year, dont tell me that they didnt know its not going to be at 2022...

Im ok with that, but Im not ok with someone beiing full of sh*t

Technical projects are inherently unpredictable. It’s not like construction where you’re building something and as long as the inputs arrive on time you’ll make Date X. One intransigent code problem (or other issue) could totally nuke your schedule; conversely a code task booked for two weeks may be concluded faster. With a module like this, I can’t imagine the opportunities for delays and issues that could come up. 

Given the complexity and capabilities being modeled here , it’s very possible HB themselves doesn’t know yet when this module will be definitely completed. They likely have a solid range of time where they’re confident it’ll probably be ready, but forget about Date X, month Y, year Z. 

[Stackup]

Does anybody here actually know where Heatblur is at in the development process or how quickly they can iron out the random bugs that pop up during testing?  The answer is most definitely no.  They've already done two full fidelity modules in the Viggen and the Tomcat so I'm sure they are well versed in the technical aspects of module creation.  This isn't really anything new to them except for some of the systems functionality so let's just wait and see what happens, but can we stop assuming they don't know how to give decent estimates?  They said 2022, war and personal issues happened seems to be about a 6 month delay and they've now said we should see something from them in the next 6 months.  Makes sense to me.  That's not 12, 24, or if we want to really be stupid, 72 months away.  It's about the same time conceivably lost.  I'm sure they have already accounted for bug fix time and some unforeseen problems as those are a common thing in development.

[Omega417]

Lots of negativity and unfounded speculation in here, lets get back to Phantom love. If you want to complain about delays there are other posts for that.

[dcsil2pilot]

4 hours ago, Manhorne said:

I would assume that they will say something officially very soon about the status. If not that is very poor customer relations.

 

imo they're already there. I 100% understand the delay behind the module, but to KNOW you're still 6 months out in 2023, and still be radio silent and not talking or telling people that it's being delayed, and even going as far as keeping the hype for a 2022 release up in November, while ALSO not having a statement put out about it after you miss the date completely...just leaves a bad taste.

I'm not frustrated about the delay. I'm frustrated they knew it was going to be delayed and STILL have not said anything about it. Just tell us!

[_BringTheReign_]

23 minutes ago, Omega417 said:

Lots of negativity and unfounded speculation in here, lets get back to Phantom love.

Amen! 

I think one of the things I am most looking forward to is the mix of high performance with older systems to manage. I enjoy the digital jets as much as the next fellow, but I firmly believe that the Phantom is the type of aircraft in which the person in the cockpit really truly makes or breaks a fight. 

Yes there are BVR missiles, but they are FOX-1's 

Yes there are all aspect heaters, but they're not the 9X

Yes there is a radar, but it requires collaboration with another human or Jester to be effective 

Yes there are hydraulic dampers on the stick etc, but it's not a digital flight control system where the computer is flying the plane 

I feel the same way about the MiG 21 and the F-5, but I am so excited for F-4 - it feels like a keystone that has been missing in DCS.

 

I wonder if anyone is working on a campaign for the F-4? Has that been mentioned or hinted at anywhere? I've mostly played on Alpenwolf and Enigma's cold war servers so single player content is new to me, but for the F-4 I feel like I want to jump in both feet first!

[WildWeasel303]

I'm gonna take a stab here and say that one of their biggest challenges is getting more SME's with Phantom flight experience to dial the FM in. I can't imagine there's too many former Phantom pilots with direct experience on this variant that they have access to. There was another post that mentioned the cockpit modeling/textures not being featured in the video; this is probably on purpose to fine tune the layout/functions of the pit. When you see a post like the above from one of the devs that's vague and includes "subjects" in the remarks, I'd say they're probably in the realm of roughly 75%-80% complete at this stage. When we finally see the pit in action, it's probably going to be closer to where the Mudhen from Razbam currently is in terms of completion state (maybe even further, who knows). 

Realistically, until we get a no BS update from HB themselves, it's all speculation at this point. My guesses could be way the F off base, but based on whats presented and previous module time frames to compare to, I can't imagine I'm too far off in saying we'll likely see more concrete info around May.

[Omega417]

6 minutes ago, _BringTheReign_ said:

I think one of the things I am most looking forward to is the mix of high performance with older systems to manage. I enjoy the digital jets as much as the next fellow, but I firmly believe that the Phantom is the type of aircraft in which the person in the cockpit really truly makes or breaks a fight.

I've definitely been babied by the Hornet so it'll be a learning curve for me. But as the pilot not having to work the A/A radar will be a nice bit for me.

[Stackup]

10 minutes ago, _BringTheReign_ said:

I wonder if anyone is working on a campaign for the F-4? Has that been mentioned or hinted at anywhere? I've mostly played on Alpenwolf and Enigma's cold war servers so single player content is new to me, but for the F-4 I feel like I want to jump in both feet first!

The F-4 will be shipping with at least one campaign from Heatblur.  There's been no news from any of the other campaign makers, but I'm personally looking forward to see what Reflected comes up after release as I assume he'll be doing at least one campaign for the Phantom.

[WinterH]

1 hour ago, AndytotheD said:

My only argument to the contrare is to remind everyone how the Viggen kind of appeared out of nowhere

I've followed Viggen in anticipation for quite some time though, people just doesn't seem to remember it, and have that myth of it appearing out of thin air.

[Kalasnkova74]

14 minutes ago, Omega417 said:

I've definitely been babied by the Hornet so it'll be a learning curve for me. But as the pilot not having to work the A/A radar will be a nice bit for me.

It will be a learning curve for most DCS players. BFM for example in the F-4E is a very different dance than what one does with the teen series or Su-27/Mig-29s. If flying the F-5E is a frustrating experience for someone, the F-4E is unlikely to initially be their cup of tea.

[Czechnology]

Only thing I can say on the release date is I'm hoping Q1, but mid Q2 would be alright. Passing Q2 I'll admittedly be kind of ticked. Had mixed messages of "Almost here guys, don't give up 2022 hopes :)" but now hearing their more recent reddit post of "we'll be nearing completion and showing details before the halfway point of the year :)" gives me bad vibes. I fully understand that they had some serious issues come up given the war in Ukraine, but this is a noticeable twist in direction. 

Now I will say, the most recent post wasn't from Cobra or Mike, so might not be the actual team's policy/opinion, for all I know that guy is in very, very hot water for the way he worded that message, or they were just being extremely casual in their presentation. Was reddit after all.