Wish - Update on Multicore and Vulkan

[Nomatic]

As simple as it sounds. I’m wishing for an update on the multicore development report, dated 15 October. That report had 6 line items remaining, and mentioned Vulkan was nearly ready. If I were to be more hopeful, I’d love to see a video report; even if an update stating more time is necessary. 

[upyr1]

The only thing I want more than an update is the release

[stormrider]

It's time.

[dutchili]

I don't know anything about the internals of DCS, but when my GPU suffers when more planes are 'in game' while i cannot see them, and the CPU has a bore out, i know our experience can be much better. Same thing with FPS being dependent on the network in multiplayer.

Vulcan, multi-core, multi-threading, i don't care what is needed as long these 'issues' are addressed. Such a great game, such a pita sometimes

[Rasmus Højgaard]

I really hope their performance upgrades gives benefits to VR players as well. Here's Hoping

[PD919]

On 2/5/2022 at 5:02 AM, Rasmus Højgaard said:

I really hope their performance upgrades gives benefits to VR players as well. Here's Hoping

I really hope it does.  A lot of script and object heavy campaigns cause a lot of stutter because too much is trying to happen on one thread.  It because more noticeable in VR because your motion smooth will go wacky or you have intense stutter with no smoothing.  DCS is GPU limited in VR but the framepacing issues that stop a constant 45 fps is the real challenge.

[Callsign112]

I am pretty sure that VR is not the only reason for the upgrades, but it is definitely one of them.

[PD919]

On a separate note about Multicore.  Asobo modiefied their DirectX 11 version of FS2020 and if you had a great Multicore processor your fps and framepacing improved dramatically in 2D and VR.  Is DCS moving entirely to Vulkan or will they update the DirectX 11 engine as well.  I think updating both will be a net benefit because Vulkan will likely be glitchy at launch compared to adding onto DirectX 11.

[SkateZilla]

6 hours ago, PD919 said:

On a separate note about Multicore.  Asobo modiefied their DirectX 11 version of FS2020 and if you had a great Multicore processor your fps and framepacing improved dramatically in 2D and VR.  Is DCS moving entirely to Vulkan or will they update the DirectX 11 engine as well.  I think updating both will be a net benefit because Vulkan will likely be glitchy at launch compared to adding onto DirectX 11.

DirectX 11's Multi-Threading is part of the API's Core and an App doesn't need to be updated to utilize it, and even then the DX11 Multi-Threading is limited, and does not alleviate the actual problem of API CPU Overhead on draw calls.

FS2020 was compiled on the last SDK Build of DirectX 11's API, The major updates in FS2020 was the removal of a huge memory leak in the world terrain rendering, and the most recent move to using the DirectX 12 API.

Both of the Above Improvements were a result of moving to DirectX 12's API, as the CPU Overhead problem is removed, thus allowing higher FPS, GPU Utilization and reduced frame times/latency etc.

DCS's Vulkan will likely sit in the open beta branch for a while before moving to the release branch, which is why open beta branch exists, to gather data from a wide set of hardware profiles.

[despinoza]

Even an update would ve enough for me... At least for a while

[72westy]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

DirectX 11's Multi-Threading is part of the API's Core and an App doesn't need to be updated to utilize it, and even then the DX11 Multi-Threading is limited, and does not alleviate the actual problem of API CPU Overhead on draw calls.

FS2020 was compiled on the last SDK Build of DirectX 11's API, The major updates in FS2020 was the removal of a huge memory leak in the world terrain rendering, and the most recent move to using the DirectX 12 API.

Both of the Above Improvements were a result of moving to DirectX 12's API, as the CPU Overhead problem is removed, thus allowing higher FPS, GPU Utilization and reduced frame times/latency etc.

DCS's Vulkan will likely sit in the open beta branch for a while before moving to the release branch, which is why open beta branch exists, to gather data from a wide set of hardware profiles.

The FPS improvement was with a build previous to a release of Direct X 12 api. The DX 12 was also an early limited performance wise release for MSFS as it has caused performance issues in and of itself vs DX 11.

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, 72westy said:

The FPS improvement was with a build previous to a release of Direct X 12 api. The DX 12 was also an early limited performance wise release for MSFS as it has caused performance issues in and of itself vs DX 11.

That would have been the aforementioned massive memory leak, as much as every user seems to believe this "We re-wrote the GFX Engine from scratch" story they put out, they simply fixed a huge memory leak that was killing performance of lower spec systems and limiting performance of higher spec systems. DirectX11_3 for Xbox isnt really a huge step over 11_2 for Windows 8/8.1.

The initial DX12 Implementation was not optimized and rushed, as much as no one wants to admit, FS2020 is still essentially in early access and not complete.

Which is also what I've been pointing out, you can take a DX10 or DX11 Project, and convert it to a DX12 Project and Recompile the entire engine fairly quickly you will however simply be keeping the same code, the same limitations, the same bottlenecks and problems and simply wrap them in a newer API Interface.

A Graphics Engine Coded for the DX11_0 Feature Set, and then quickly converted to DirectX12 API without being re-written to utilize the DX12_0 API Feature set is simply a Graphics Engine Running on DirectX12 with a DirectX11_1 Feature Set, nothing changes by simply re-compiling in the DX12 SDK. You will have the same limits as the engine will still run 11_x Modes and use those 11_x DLLs.

Even the Jump from 11_0 to 11_3 isnt adding much, you need to Jump to 12_2 or 12_3 FeatureSets and re-write parts of the engine to properly use them to see any type of gain.

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by SkateZilla

[SkateZilla]

3 hours ago, DigitalEngine said:

I'm suspecting this will in effect be DCS World 3.0, which I'd think, the first we may see hints of would be in one of Wags videos, with the famous "whats that "..." doing there, or some other hint which would be picked out by some of our sharp eyed DCS World fans.
I was hoping we might have see something with one of his AH-64D videos for a hint of such, however, no joy it seems...

 

Unless he plops a Spock Statue at Nellis, there's no way to say hey what's that Vulkan doing there?

[Gronank]

On 3/13/2022 at 1:47 AM, SkateZilla said:

Unless he plops a Spock Statue at Nellis, there's no way to say hey what's that Vulkan doing there?

"That M163 VADS over there looks like a smooth ride"

[Callsign112]

Getting back on topic of the thread, it would sure be nice to get an update on where things are.

[Mr_sukebe]

2 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

Getting back on topic of the thread, it would sure be nice to get an update on where things are.

My guess is "in progress".

On a serious note, you're probably not going to get anything better than that.  Some of what they're doing is new for ED and will be a bit of a learning exercise. The implications being that "issues" and "opportunities" will pop up during development that were not expected and may result in a significant push back of expected go live dates.

Even a "rough guess" is dangerous, as you'll have seen by the flak that ED receive when they suggest a date and can't meet it.

It really is better to "under promise and over deliver" than the other way around.

[Nomatic]

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

My guess is "in progress".

On a serious note, you're probably not going to get anything better than that.  Some of what they're doing is new for ED and will be a bit of a learning exercise. The implications being that "issues" and "opportunities" will pop up during development that were not expected and may result in a significant push back of expected go live dates.

Even a "rough guess" is dangerous, as you'll have seen by the flak that ED receive when they suggest a date and can't meet it.

It really is better to "under promise and over deliver" than the other way around.

Yeah, I don’t think you’re wrong. I’m sure it’ll be radio silence until it’s about to be deployed to open beta. But, i’m hopeful. 

[Mr_sukebe]

1 hour ago, Nomatic said:

Yeah, I don’t think you’re wrong. I’m sure it’ll be radio silence until it’s about to be deployed to open beta. But, i’m hopeful. 

Agreed.  I'm really really looking forward to it.  

However, just continually asking about it will at best, only serve to distract the project team from their delivery.  Best to let them just get on with it.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Mr_sukebe

[Munkwolf]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:56 PM, DigitalEngine said:

I'm suspecting this will in effect be DCS World 3.0, which I'd think, the first we may see hints of would be in one of Wags videos

On that note.. one of the interesting things to me in the Apache Controls Setup video he did recently was seeing version '2.99' down in the lower right of the menu screen...

[Morat]

I just want some news, I'm sick of barely adequate performance from a 9700k and 3080 when running a Reverb G2 in VR. If ED get it right, they could turn this into _the_ premier VR application for PC.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I also hope this move to Vulkan will fix the shimmering in VR. I don't know enough about the subject to know what it is that actually causes the current shimmering, but I hope there is something that can be done to fix it...

[deep]

6 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

It really is better to "under promise and over deliver" than the other way around.

I could not agree more. Look at recent ED product history - they deliver great products but over-promise on everything, leading to a great gnashing of teeth on what was under-delivered.

[Silver_Dragon]

30 minutes ago, Morat said:

I just want some news, I'm sick of barely adequate performance from a 9700k and 3080 when running a Reverb G2 in VR. If ED get it right, they could turn this into _the_ premier VR application for PC.

The last official news about multicore and Vulkan has here... take calm.

 

[Callsign112]

7 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

My guess is "in progress".

On a serious note, you're probably not going to get anything better than that.  Some of what they're doing is new for ED and will be a bit of a learning exercise. The implications being that "issues" and "opportunities" will pop up during development that were not expected and may result in a significant push back of expected go live dates.

Even a "rough guess" is dangerous, as you'll have seen by the flak that ED receive when they suggest a date and can't meet it.

It really is better to "under promise and over deliver" than the other way around.

I know your right, but still can't help wonder if there is any chance we see something this year. Just went back to review the mini roadmap they provided at the end of Q3 2021, and it seems possible that we will. It seems they had about 2 thirds of the work done after working more than 2 years on it. Another 10 months or so should be able to bag the remainder is my guess. I think I can keep myself occupied with a couple DCS modules till then

[Munkwolf]

1 minute ago, Callsign112 said:

It seems they had about 2 thirds of the work done after working more than 2 years on it. Another 10 months or so should be able to bag the remainder is my guess.

unfortunately in software development the last 5% takes half the time