Where did all the WW2 people go?

[ak22]

42 minutes ago, NineLine said:

That isn't going to change, we as a company need to have a Return on Investment, paid assets is sadly what needs to be done. That said, it goes on sale for 50% off on a regular basis making it only 15.00 USD. The thread is about where did the WWII people go, in that suggesting current WWII (which most own the Asset Pack already) people have left, I don't think bringing up the asset price every time is the answer to everything. 

How come you don't charge for modern day assets? It might help increase the player base and bring people over from the other popular WW2 game if it was free. I don't think the WW2 online player base was ever their to being with, compared to modern dcs world or the other WW2 game.

 I haven't made the jump to WW2 as I don't want to buy map, plane and asset's I noticed a lot of people feeling the same. Even more so when we have two similar maps and no free WW2 map, Caucasus is nice map but flying warbirds on it just doesn't feel right.

Edited August 18, 2022 by ak22

[Catseye]

10 hours ago, NineLine said:

Thank you for your feedback, and thank you for your honesty, I get it guys, and I feel your pain, WWII is my passion as well. I do love modern fighters the A-10C II is so much fun but I would much rather ground pound in WWII. So please do not feel ignored, I know its hard not to but we do have some things in progress and I will bring these concerns and messages to the team as well.

NineLine - thank you for your remarks and very much appreciated. For me, and it's easy to say from this armchair. A scenario for example, of the upcoming Marianas WWII map in conjunction with a planeset of the period, even AI would be IMHO, a super setup in the interrim as further development of flyable models of that theater are developed. A map without opponents is unfortunately just a map even though created with great effort and dedication. Regrettably, I am of the same age as those warbirds and time is not a commodity I will have to enjoy the development of advanced warbird models in volume. But I do understand much of what is happening. Thanks again.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Catseye

[NineLine]

4 hours ago, ak22 said:

How come you don't charge for modern day assets? It might help increase the player base and bring people over from the other popular WW2 game if it was free. I don't think the WW2 online player base was ever their to being with, compared to modern dcs world or the other WW2 game.

 I haven't made the jump to WW2 as I don't want to buy map, plane and asset's I noticed a lot of people feeling the same. Even more so when we have two similar maps and no free WW2 map, Caucasus is nice map but flying warbirds on it just doesn't feel right.

 

The Core game was free, and has been since the inception of DCS World. 

A 3rd Party did a Kickstarter for DCS WWII and was going to be the WWII developer, that fell apart. Rather than throw it all away, we did what we could to salvage it. The Normandy Map was given to another team we continued the aircraft and assets. It was a large financial and manpower hit on us, and continues to be so we do what we can to make it priced reasonably but still make it at least pay for itself. 

Modern aircraft are more expensive generally than warbirds, so it does balance out most times. 

[Baltic Dude]

6 hours ago, NineLine said:

That isn't going to change, we as a company need to have a Return on Investment, paid assets is sadly what needs to be done. That said, it goes on sale for 50% off on a regular basis making it only 15.00 USD. The thread is about where did the WWII people go, in that suggesting current WWII (which most own the Asset Pack already) people have left, I don't think bringing up the asset price every time is the answer to everything. 

Isn't Deka's Chinese Assets pack completely free...?

[NineLine]

19 minutes ago, Baltic Dude said:

Isn't Deka's Chinese Assets pack completely free...?

And?

[Northstar98]

7 hours ago, Baltic Dude said:

Isn't Deka's Chinese Assets pack completely free...?

It's also done to way less quality than the WWII asset pack - the quality is somewhere between the Flanker 2/LOMAC assets and the ships improved around 2014.

As I've said before the WWII asset pack's problem isn't that it's merely paid, it's the multiplayer implementation that locks people out of servers using it (even if it's just a single asset being used). If it was changed such that the units were visible in multiplayer (even at their lowest LOD, or having their models replaced with their nearest free equivalent and without CA functionality for owners of CA) but keeping it such that you need to purchase it to use them in SP or to make your own missions with them that would go a long way to solving the problem, while still keeping the incentive there to purchase it and without making it free.

The Supercarrier used to be like this (you had to own it to play on a server using it), including for assets that offer no new functionality over existing free ones (so more or less exactly like the majority of the asset pack), but later it was changed such that the assets were available to everyone and only SC functionality was paywalled (so being more generous than what I just suggested).

Edited August 19, 2022 by Northstar98

[LucShep]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:40 AM, ak22 said:

How come you don't charge for modern day assets? It might help increase the player base and bring people over from the other popular WW2 game if it was free. I don't think the WW2 online player base was ever their to being with, compared to modern dcs world or the other WW2 game.

 I haven't made the jump to WW2 as I don't want to buy map, plane and asset's I noticed a lot of people feeling the same. Even more so when we have two similar maps and no free WW2 map, Caucasus is nice map but flying warbirds on it just doesn't feel right.

 

That's pretty much it for me as well.

I own most of the WW2 stuff from the other sim competitors (many older and also newer titles), yet I've kept myself distant from it in DCS. 
The whole business model for WW2 in DCS does not seem to make much sense. IMHO, it's too steep of an entry for the content that makes sense for WW2.  

First, because you pretty much have to buy a WW2 map and also the WW2 Assets to make any WW2 aircraft feel any correct in context (yes, the Caucasus is free but it just feels wrong for anything WW2, sorry), resulting in a (even) bigger investment to make WW2 in DCS anything realistic, if comparing to the modern stuff presenting no such issues.
And, second, because with popular competitors (be it direct or not) for identical content, one would think that the opposite would happen and no such barriers would exhist - yet, strangely enough, they do.   

Why not make the WW2 assets free, including it with the purchase of the first (any) WW2 aircraft in DCS?
Why not make promotional packages, where an Allied and an Axis aircraft would be sold together at permanent discount?
And, likewise, promotional packages where one could get WW2 aircraft + map included for free, as seasonal discount?

I don't get why something like this hasn't been done to entice curiosity and make people jump head first.
I get the feeling ED doesn't get the public whom would want to jump on it but just won't. Because of how it's presented as a product, not because it isn't good (it does look good).
The way I see it, WW2 in DCS has been kind of a missed oportunity, so far.

Edited August 20, 2022 by LucShep

[Doughguy]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb LucShep:

Or promotional packages where one could get WW2 map + aircraft at discount?

Check the shop. You can get every warbird with the channel map for 60 quid. That is a discount if youd buy each on its own instead. And from that purchase you get miles points which in turn gets you a discount for your next purchase. Also you have 50% off of your first purchase as a new client. 

Tbf dcs is a totally different beast as far as sims goes and not everyone will like it. You can try out each module for 2 weeks but itll take longer to actually "learn" any warbird as each has its kinks. Now if you want people to buy bundles which are more expensive than buying a single plane that comes at 50% of its price as a new client you might just make people feel even more frustrated havin burned more money on something they might not enjoy as much.

Caucasus might not "feel" right... but to get some flying hours stacked up its good enough. And your imagination will do the rest as the landscape is vast and versatile enough....

So far ive purchased the pony at 50%discount for the entry. Bought asset pack which is like 20 dollars? Bought normandy when they had it on discount. With the stacked up miles ive bought the dora for 18 quid.

If thats not "cheap" i dont know what it is... 

Also, if you want stuff free, expect a bitter taste after the sweetness has vanished...

People have high demands on here... but expect to be asked for super low prices... well i wonder if youd work for a quid an hour and so 50+ hrs. People be furious...

The ww2 stuff is fine in its current stage imho. Its a relatively new branch and hence not as competative as the modern stuff.. nothing that cant be changed over time. But it takes patience... something many people dont seem to have...

[LucShep]

19 hours ago, Doughguy said:

Check the shop. You can get every warbird with the channel map for 60 quid. That is a discount if youd buy each on its own instead. And from that purchase you get miles points which in turn gets you a discount for your next purchase. Also you have 50% off of your first purchase as a new client. 

Tbf dcs is a totally different beast as far as sims goes and not everyone will like it. You can try out each module for 2 weeks but itll take longer to actually "learn" any warbird as each has its kinks. Now if you want people to buy bundles which are more expensive than buying a single plane that comes at 50% of its price as a new client you might just make people feel even more frustrated havin burned more money on something they might not enjoy as much.

Caucasus might not "feel" right... but to get some flying hours stacked up its good enough. And your imagination will do the rest as the landscape is vast and versatile enough....

So far ive purchased the pony at 50%discount for the entry. Bought asset pack which is like 20 dollars? Bought normandy when they had it on discount. With the stacked up miles ive bought the dora for 18 quid.

If thats not "cheap" i dont know what it is... 

Also, if you want stuff free, expect a bitter taste after the sweetness has vanished...

People have high demands on here... but expect to be asked for super low prices... well i wonder if youd work for a quid an hour and so 50+ hrs. People be furious...

The ww2 stuff is fine in its current stage imho. Its a relatively new branch and hence not as competative as the modern stuff.. nothing that cant be changed over time. But it takes patience... something many people dont seem to have...

It doesn't even remotely compare to experience the customer has with the modern counterparts, and that's the whole point that myself and others in this thread have pointed to. That's the whole point of "why it makes no sense", the way it is being comercialized. 

There's no "Flaming Cliffs 3" alike package for WW2, no entry point. Which, we all know, is what most people get into first, ever since DCS was a thing to this very day. For which the Caucasus is a perfect playground and makes total sense, to get invested in.

If the online portion of DCS WW2 is not as healthy as it was once was, servers keep closing, popular content creators "gone out", and forum threads like this one appear, it's because the product hasn't been explored correctly. And that's the general consensus/impression from what I gather.
Been around long enough to see sim/games come and go, to understand this never took off as it should. Doesn't matter how hard you wish to defend it.  

Edited August 20, 2022 by LucShep

[ak22]

 

10 hours ago, LucShep said:

That's pretty much it for me as well.

I own most of the WW2 stuff from the other sim competitors (many older and also newer titles), yet I've kept myself distant from it in DCS. 
The whole business model for WW2 in DCS does not seem to make much sense. IMHO, it's too steep of an entry for the content that makes sense for WW2.  

First, because you pretty much have to buy a WW2 map and also the WW2 Assets to make any WW2 aircraft feel any correct in context (yes, the Caucasus is free but it just feels wrong for anything WW2, sorry), resulting in a (even) bigger investment to make WW2 in DCS anything realistic, if comparing to the modern stuff presenting no such issues.
And, second, because with popular competitors (be it direct or not) for identical content, one would think that the opposite would happen and no such barriers would exhist - yet, strangely enough, they do.   

Why not make the WW2 assets free, including it with the purchase of the first (any) WW2 aircraft in DCS?
Why not make promotional packages, where an Allied and an Axis aircraft would be sold together at permanent discount?
And, likewise, promotional packages where one could get WW2 map + aircraft at permanent discount?

I don't get why something like this hasn't been done to entice curiosity and make people jump head first.
I get the feeling ED doesn't get the public whom would want to jump on it but just won't. Because of how it's presented as a product, not because it isn't good (it does look good).
The way I see it, WW2 in DCS has been kind of a missed oportunity, so far.

 

The cost/barrier is the main issue I see it all the time on Reddit and other forums you have to buy plane, map and assets.  The other WW2 you can just buy one game/pack you get lots of planes, a map and a solid single player experience, most importantly you can play on any map online for free,  their is no splitting the player base. 

I think one way increasing the player base is make a free WW2 map (not the small island...) also adding a FC3 style plane for free. This would be good entry point for new players  and everyone to fly warbirds online together.

Just wanted to add my experience: 

When I first joined DCS I came from WW2 and the F-16 game, I flew the TF-51 it was fun at first but then became boring flying a WW2 trainer around a Morden map'  I looked at the prices of the WW2 and the online player base and decided it was best to stick with the other game. I checked out the Su-25T and it was great experience, I could fly online play with my friends and it made us buy more modern modules. 

I love this game  and I would love to play to WW2, but unfortunately its just not worth the investment for me, to online play or even single player until dynamic campaign comes along. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by ak22

[Sideburns]

In answer to the original question, and hopefully constructive feedback for ED:

1. I originally played a lot of warbirds with "thatotherWW2sim:1946" during the late 90s into early 2000's while Flanker / LOMAC series was modern jet focussed.
2. Pleased to see DCS venture into WW2, purchased a FW190D9 shortly after release based on personal preference for the FW190 series.
3. Initially not a lot of WW2 servers, but slowly built up with additional WW2 aircraft releases (Note I remained just with the FW190D9)
4. It felt like there was a "golden age" of multiple, well populated WW2 servers based on the Caucasus' before the various ww2 maps and the asset pack released.
5. New map and asset pack released, I wasn't willing to purchase, but many WW2 servers moved to these maps and the pack. Feeling locked out from DCS WW2 now as limited, low or no population WW2 servers available to me. Easier to find active multiplayer for cold war and modern jets in DCS.
6. Pleased to see the FW190D9 engine cut out bug fixed, but why did it take many years to realise random engine failures were always set on for this plane after the many bug reports on this issue? Also the issues @=475FG= Dawgermentioned.
7. Gone back modern iterations of "thatotherWW2sim" for warbirds as it was less buggy and as it was cheaper than buying the necessary map and asset packs to partake in DCS WW2. Sometimes take out the DCS FW190D9 for a joyride, but it has become a hanger queen of sorts.

Just my own experience.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sideburns

[Bozon]

7 hours ago, Doughguy said:

People have high demands on here... but expect to be asked for super low prices... well i wonder if youd work for a quid an hour and so 50+ hrs. People be furious...

You have the wrong “people” - most people here have bought the maps the assets and more than 1 module. The “high entry price” is what I get from people who play other games when I suggest they move to DCS. This is a simple observation - not an opinion, neither a demand.

The original question was “where did all the WWII people go” - this I believe refers to players who were already in DCS and left. They already paid the entry fee, so costs was not the issue.

I know some complained about the glacial pace of fixing some standing issues with existing modules, in particular on the axis side. I think they were exaggerating, but what they thought is what mattered because they left. This is what killed SOW server as far as I understand.

Beyond that I think that some players felt that DCS WWII was going nowhere - this is me guessing, I don’t have any solid info, or talked to people who left. Compared to the jets, WWII modules come out very far in between, and EA status drags on forever with minimal additions. Some modules still don’t have a native campaign, or lack things that prevent the 3rd party devs from release campaigns for them. There isn’t any clear vision or a roadmap of what is coming to get players hyped - not just player modules, this also refers to AI units, AI for crew (mosquito navigator?), maps, weapon options, etc.

[kablamoman]

Until the WW2 asset pack and maps are free nothing will change. The way the system is set up now is a huge barrier to entry and has stunted the growth of the WW2 player base.

The community has been very vocal about this for years, but ED has been stubborn and set in their ways. WW2 languishes as a result. All of this despite some amazing work with flight and sound modeling, and big improvements to damage modeling. It's really a bit of a travesty that they've stymied themselves with their sales model and done severe damage to the online community and the entire product as a result.

Reasonable suggestion: Make the assets and ww2 maps free and available to play online -- this will help grow the small, stagnant community. Charge for SP and to be able to use them in the mission editor if costs need to be recouped. I feel that ED might ultimately see an increase in sales with this approach, as more people will end up interested in the product and the online community of players and servers is able to grow without any impediments.

[Brigg]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:41 PM, kablamoman said:

Until the WW2 asset pack and maps are free nothing will change. The way the system is set up now is a huge barrier to entry and has stunted the growth of the WW2 player base.

The community has been very vocal about this for years, but ED has been stubborn and set in their ways. WW2 languishes as a result. All of this despite some amazing work with flight and sound modeling, and big improvements to damage modeling. It's really a bit of a travesty that they've stymied themselves with their sales model and done severe damage to the online community and the entire product as a result.

Reasonable suggestion: Make the assets and ww2 maps free and available to play online -- this will help grow the small, stagnant community. Charge for SP and to be able to use them in the mission editor if costs need to be recouped. I feel that ED might ultimately see an increase in sales with this approach, as more people will end up interested in the product and the online community of players and servers is able to grow without any impediments.

Im sorry but this dont fly with me, would you work for peanuts or are you a monkey or elephant? the fact of the matter is quality costs in whatever walk of life. You can not expect DCS quality at said other sims prices. So long and short of it is are you prepared to enjoy a McD's (though lets be honest Ronald would probs make a better FM than JW) or pay a little bit more and enjoy a nice T-Bone steak

Edited August 21, 2022 by Brigg

[Bozon]

@Brigg It does not matter what you or I think. Potential players do not come to DCS WWII and they often mention the number of required modules and total costs as one of the reasons - justified or not, it is a barrier. People left DCS following the SOW server closure - whether their complaints were in the right or in the wrong makes little difference to the fact that the server owners left and took a few players with them.

Multiplayer games require a critical population size. Right now it seems (to me) that we are just barely above it. What to do about it is a good question for which I don’t have a good answer, but it sure requires some action from ED side beyond just adding 1 module ever year and a half. Maybe DCS was not meant for WWII multiplayer - this is a legitimate (though disappointing) choice that ED may make (made already?).

[kablamoman]

13 hours ago, Brigg said:

Im sorry but this dont fly with me, would you work for peanuts or are you a monkey or elephant? the fact of the matter is quality costs in whatever walk of life. You can not expect DCS quality at said other sims prices. So long and short of it is are you prepared to enjoy a McD's (though lets be honest Ronald would probs make a better FM than JW) or pay a little bit more and enjoy a nice T-Bone steak

 

In one post you say people should be paid for their work -- that they aren't animals -- yet in the previous you deride people for not continuing to work (for free) on their passion project and/or not relinquish the fruits of their hard labor to the community magnanimously. I will not say much more than that other than I find it to be extremely distasteful.

To be clear, when I said "free" in regards to the asset pack/maps, I meant free access for online multiplayer. Nobody is expecting work to go unpaid. In fact, I suspect that a more popular online showing for the WW2 product would lead directly to increased sales of modules (and maps/asset packs for enjoyment offline or to author missions) and ultimately more return on investment.

You can be either one of two minds:

1. That a strong multiplayer community drives overall sales.
2. That online enjoyment of the product is a small portion of overall sales.

In either case, it makes sense from a business standpoint that owning the maps/asset packs should not be a requirement to play on an online server running them. Either this open access for online play is a driver of more sales, or it wouldn't have that much of an impact financially anyway. In both cases, being able to join these servers without a purchase of these items would be huge in helping to grow a stronger WW2 community.

The alternative, as we can see plain as day by the current state of the online community, is a product that is struggling to grow and gain the traction it deserves.

Edited August 21, 2022 by kablamoman

[grafspee]

There is a company which makes strategy games, they are famous of releasing tons of dlcs, but not a single dlc is required for multiplayer fun, only host is required to own dlcs, every other player can access content with base game only through MP, some ppl may say that this is big loose for company so many ppl will not buy dlcs, is it? I think no, it act as advert i think that this approach amplify dlcs buys.

We can say that WW2 DCS MP is very small, but if no one will invest in it, it will remain that way. 

What about ppl who did buy asset pack, they can not enjoy it in MP because, lots of ppl who don't have this pack can not join their servers, so this limits full experience too, if we look that way.

What i would suggest, is to change status of asset pack as a module, because right now situation looks like that, if i don't own DCS F-16 i can not join any server which has this plane in mission. Some how for ED it is ok to shoot down F-16 while you don't own it, but you can not shoot or bomb unit which is part of ww2 asset pack in MP.

I don't agree with that all maps should be available in MP, but this asset pack really cut legs of ww2 experience and enjoyment.  

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by grafspee

[Baltic Dude]

10 hours ago, kablamoman said:

In one post you say people should be paid for their work -- that they aren't animals -- yet in the previous you deride people for not continuing to work (for free) on their passion project and/or not relinquish the fruits of their hard labor to the community magnanimously. I will not say much more than that other than I find it to be extremely distasteful.

To be clear, when I said "free" in regards to the asset pack/maps, I meant free access for online multiplayer. Nobody is expecting work to go unpaid. In fact, I suspect that a more popular online showing for the WW2 product would lead directly to increased sales of modules (and maps/asset packs for enjoyment offline or to author missions) and ultimately more return on investment.

You can be either one of two minds:

1. That a strong multiplayer community drives overall sales.
2. That online enjoyment of the product is a small portion of overall sales.

In either case, it makes sense from a business standpoint that owning the maps/asset packs should not be a requirement to play on an online server running them. Either this open access for online play is a driver of more sales, or it wouldn't have that much of an impact financially anyway. In both cases, being able to join these servers without a purchase of these items would be huge in helping to grow a stronger WW2 community.

The alternative, as we can see plain as day by the current state of the online community, is a product that is struggling to grow and gain the traction it deserves.

 

Also, last thing I will say is focusing on return of investment doesn't make sense in the short-run. If they want WWII to grow, they need to invest in the short-run in order for long-term grown and profits. One assets pack going free, JUST for multiplayer, would allow for more people to try, purchase and expand their purchases in DCS' larger ecosystem. Healthy player base grows the "community." There is a reason why countries all over the world invest in public transportation when they don't make their money back in ticket sales. They make their money back from the increased flow of people putting more money in other companies and the larger economy. I think it's a good analogy. WWII Assets being not required for multiplayer servers would act as a tranzit which allows more people to flow into DCS' larger community.

[[AUSSIE]t0min8t0r]

On 3/18/2022 at 4:08 PM, Nirvi said:

4YA has taken over most of SoW missions, if you are looking for a mp experience like SoW, that's the best place for now. 

just as a note we don't use sow missions we only used them at the very beginning because no one had anywhere to fly

10 hours ago, grafspee said:

There is a company which makes strategy games, they are famous of releasing tons of dlcs, but not a single dlc is required for multiplayer fun, only host is required to own dlcs, every other player can access content with base game only through MP, some ppl may say that this is big loose for company so many ppl will not buy dlcs, is it? I think no, it act as advert i think that this approach amplify dlcs buys.

We can say that WW2 DCS MP is very small, but if no one will invest in it, it will remain that way. 

What about ppl who did buy asset pack, they can not enjoy it in MP because, lots of ppl who don't have this pack can not join their servers, so this limits full experience too, if we look that way.

What i would suggest, is to change status of asset pack as a module, because right now situation looks like that, if i don't own DCS F-16 i can not join any server which has this plane in mission. Some how for ED it is ok to shoot down F-16 while you don't own it, but you can not shoot or bomb unit which is part of ww2 asset pack in MP.

I don't agree with that all maps should be available in MP, but this asset pack really cut legs of ww2 experience and enjoyment.  

 

 

mp isnt that small anymore in a recent post on hoggit its  a 45/55 split 

[Doughguy]

Indeed. Theres alot of ww2 servers albeit very few are populated with 5+ players at a time and most of the time its around weekends.

One big part thats frustrating in ww2 mp , and i speak about my own experience, is that you as a newbie are totally overwhelmed by dcs. No aids except a a map. Most new players can barely fly their warbird right let alone navigate just by map and compas.

That often results in long hours flying around cluelessly and then being shot down of a sudden.

And yet people advocate to make modules etc cheaper i.o. to attract more players, which on turn will just lead to more players that simply cant handle a single plane right and get shot down aswell... which is frustrating aswell.

The learning curve in dcs is steep and demanding. That alone is off putting for very many people.

But to each his own.

Most mp games ive attended werent bad but rather chaotic and left one clueless about ones starting point, what to do or where everyone is. If you fly alone, youre dead meat. Casually joining up with people and fly some sorties is tedious as again you often have to fly on your own 100km+ to reach the action or join up with team mates. It is boring and time consuming. Not everyone likes this even if they like the ww2 theme.

One could argue its realistic to fly that long. Yes it is. But as a coordinated pack not on your own. 

Theres many many more factors that contribute to the not so densly populated servers. Payable assets might be just one of them but certainly not the only one as its being portrayed.

[Skewgear]

1 hour ago, Doughguy said:

One big part thats frustrating in ww2 mp , and i speak about my own experience, is that you as a newbie are totally overwhelmed by dcs. No aids except a a map. Most new players can barely fly their warbird right let alone navigate just by map and compas.

That often results in long hours flying around cluelessly and then being shot down of a sudden.

This is something that worries me. Project Overlord has its hard-core players who are very happy flying with minimal external aids. We've all memorised the terrain and know where to go and what to do.

But for the newbie this is a confusing and demoralising experience. You don't even know which parking stand you're on at the airfield you spawn in at. Unless you know how to mark the knee board map you may never really know where you are unless you climb to altitude and compare it with real maps. While peacefully flying around an empty sky you suddenly get shot down by someone you haven't even seen, let alone had a chance to fight against.

Similarly, I'm convinced nobody reads the ingame briefing notes until they're told about it (LAlt + B) and many players don't bother with SRS because theyre too shy or don't have native English competency.

Turning on things like BDA, labels and external views certainly makes the gaming more enjoyable and lowers the barrier to entry but destroys the USP of Project Overlord - the very reason people come and fly with us.

4YA WW2's growth in player numbers is steady, so I don't think we're doing anything wrong as such, but the learning curve is very steep. The 4YA training server is a good place to master the very basics of flying and operating weapons but we don't have an intermediate step in the DCS WW2 world between that and full fidelity WW2 combat.

[Doughguy]

To be frank. Yes it is frustrating and boring. But thats how war was. With splitseconds of sheer terror sprinkled in between.

however most crew did not have the luxury of memorizing terrain. Crews getting lost was a normal occurrance. The main thing is mp games are most of the time played in the a classic mp style game as in capture the flag and no "missions", hence also on the 4ya server you have rather that style of gaming instead of actually doing ww2 styled tasks. Also most players seem to fly just quite low all the time. Ive had some rounds on the 4ya server and had an engagement at 24k ft just once for now. The rest is well under cloud cover.. so when i see this style of "gaming" and read "where did all the ww2 people go?" Id dare to say off to arcady games, where you have instant action and not fly around 15min from <profanity>ecreekville off an cold start just to be shotdown over st.crap-sur-jaques w/o having fired a single shot. Dcs is just not for everyone. You cant please everyone. Just as arcady games arent for everyone.. if you wanna please all youll end up with a pile of crap. Dcs is a neiche product. A hardcore sim. Not everyone is into it. But some are. And many on here said, they still play but sp as they cannot find good "missions" to fly but often just random engagements. Which is nice for a break eg doing cap or so... but not every time you fire up mp... most of us arent kids anymore but grown people that have lives beside dcs and maybe can spend an hour each day or a few on the weekend. So alone learning an a/c, is an inevidable time consuming process... let alone master it. I myself just spend the firsr few weeks just learning with the tf51 and im still a sh1t shot in the mustang. If you transpose this to mp games its equally time consuming.. especially if you have to fly 20+ mins from a to b to actually see anything.. e.g i flew the dora yesterday on 4ya. And i could only start from barville... whereas all the action happening was around lessay it seemed. So it took me bout 20 mins flying there 2 or 3 times. I can do casual flying on my own. I dont need no mp for that. And again thats where many people, as stated above, just give up on mp, as its too scattered uncoordinated and too timeconsuming. The general mp mechanics of what is anticipated from a ww2 sim( a sim!) Differs alot from what currently is going on on the few populated servers.

Me and a mate make and fly or own missions as in with set tasks and mission planning etc. If we just want to duel we agree to meet above eg caen and each goes in as he wants. And i see alot of private servers o  which im pretty sure the same thing is goibg on. Granted we both have the asset pack but its not something in general that will contribute to the actual experience /mechanics, cause as said... people expect a sim... they get served arcady game style... thats like youd go to thailand and .... well.. you know...

But mp wise on an open server thered just so much you can do... you cant set up a "real mission" cause you need players to populate the game. People joining in at random times will fall behind and server will be restarted midway en route to target. People wont always wait 30 mins for a mission to start either if they only have an hour a day and chores to do.  As said... cant please everyone.

As a feedback for 4ya, it would be nice to have more options to pick a start from... if everyones airborn you might want to spawn in the air and not going through the whole procedure for 20plus mins. Or maybe a more dynamic way if technically possible, so you can start off from airfields that have been captured. Also a/c types seem to be limited to a certain airfield. Not so cool if you only have one plane and have to fly longer than your buddy in a different plane. As far as knowing where you start from, one of course can pic from the role list, but maybe add the parking lot number into the plane description/name so at least one doesnt have to guess where one is. Its bit more tedious work but helps the new player a bit. Tried taking off of a broad taxiway and ended up as a burning pile of rubble.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Doughguy

[DishDoggie]

temerity

excessive confidence or boldness; audacity.

How cool is this ? LOL This is my Word of the DAY on my Toilet Paper I had with my morning Coffee Today.

[Doughguy]

vor einer Stunde schrieb DD_Fenrir:

How some of you think that making an Asset Pack free will suddenly solve what are in reality mission design/server concept issues is reasoning that is frankly... nonsensical.

Well one cannot deny the fact that people are barred from joining servers for which they need the asset pack... 

Same goes for me as im on stable version... once the branches split again theres very little to play for me mp wise. There was only one pure public ww2 server on stable which was op jupiter. Couldnt find it anymore before the merge. Had to dogfight jets.... 

So in that respect its the same thing. Most servers are on the beta version.

So i understand this argument. But as you say, it wont hold people back with the flying, itll just limit their possibilities.  However if people are smart theyd get a plane with a map that comes with a discount or a plane with the asset pack with a 50% discount. And theres sales often enough... we are arguing here about mere 20 quid when people dish out 400quid for a warthhog or what not.... 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Doughguy

[Rebel28]

Pram? Well had to look that one up… Just goes to show you can learn something new here every day.