Is it going to be worth going 3090 to 4090?

[Morat]

13 hours ago, DerKlausi said:

Don't forget the growing VR community, albeit slowly. 3090 was able to cope with 4k pretty nicely, but not with the demands of today's high-end HMDs. For example, I'm assuming most Varjo Aero and Pimax 8kx users will upgrade to the 4090. And even if that's just a couple of thousand users, you'll know the numbers...

 

I'm disappointed that the main reviewers don't use any VR titles in their benchmarks. VR is the only gaming use case I can see that pushes these super-high end cards.

Also, I think VR has suffered from the state of the GPU market. The barrier to VR is high when it comes with requirements for a modern card, and those cards are being scalped, used for mining and are generaly super-expensive. The MSRP of the 40 series is not helping to solve this issue, although I am hopeful for price reductions once the 30 series stock has cleared - especially for the 4080 and 4070 which are ridiculous at the moment.

Finally, I'm hoping that the 7900XT is a rasterisation beast. RT, DLSS etc are of absolutely no use to DCS players so a high rasterisation score is all I'm looking for.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Morat

[Al-Azraq]

46 minutes ago, Wali763 said:

Looking at the pics it seems like the CPU is holding back the GPU.

So my guess would be, that in scenarios with low CPU-load, one will get a decent uplift in fps, but in scenarios with high CPU-demand the 4090 could perform the same as a 3090.

Having invested so much money, Id be quite unhappy, still being stuck at/around 60fps. But using motionsmoothing, 60fps would still mean 45fps since 90 is too far away. Of courese if you have 90Hz HMD.

Anyway, this is one more reason, that multi-thread-support should be releasing as soon as possible!

We have been saying that for a while now, even Nineline said to wait for multithreading before spending that money on a GPU but here we are. Sure the 4090 will offer a huge boost when not CPU bound (I think that in the air) but I wouldn't like spending 2.000 € just to have improvements just under certain circumstances.

[frenzon]

17 minutes ago, Al-Azraq said:

We have been saying that for a while now, even Nineline said to wait for multithreading before spending that money on a GPU but here we are. Sure the 4090 will offer a huge boost when not CPU bound (I think that in the air) but I wouldn't like spending 2.000 € just to have improvements just under certain circumstances.

For me it's not just about the framerate even though improvements would be nice, but it's also about the image quality obtainable within that CPU-bound framerate - being able to go from 100%SS/VR/0MSAA to 150%SS/High Quality Textures/4xMSAA at the same framerate makes it feel like a whole new game

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I don't think there is no improvement, which really depends on where one starts from, and I would like to see what the numbers would be when paired with 5800x3D

It is off-topic, but at least I get better frame rate on MSFS......

[speed-of-heat]

The conditions of @frenzon’s test are deliberately designed to induce a cpu bound situation, he does say that quite clearly, so it will not provide a frame rate improvement in that scenario… 

[Supmua]

With my current setup I get good CPU frametimes in some maps (9ms Harrier Caucasus free flight, 11ms Hornet Syria Freeflight), so I’m hoping to see some 90 fps especially when up in the air.  My card was shipped last night so hoping to post some numbers next week although there’s some issues between the 4090 and Varjo Aero currently. 

[Digitalvole]

Just got off the phone to OCUK, my new PC got damaged in transit thanks DPD!

The chap recommended the MSI 4090s and is expecting more frequent restocking this time round.

He also said the thing is a flipping chunk, (we likened it to a basket ball players shoe) and the cards that take up 3 slots are less likely to sag than those that take up 2 (such as the Asus TUF). But probably not a big deal.

I hope he’s right.

Thought this might be useful info for someone

Edited October 14, 2022 by Digitalvole

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I still lock my "eyes" on the FE but I find that the Asus TUF card sells the same price, at least at BOX and SCAN, may be an attractive alternative.

Since I am building from scratch, I am not sure how large the case I need, I am looking at Factual Design Torrent Compact but well, I may need to talk to somebody.

BTW, how do people getting 4090 left and right when the SCAN and OC webpages all say these cards are "coming soon"?

Edited October 14, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Digitalvole]

OCUK sold out in 1 hour, the chap said. I saw them on there at 14:40.

But by the time the chancellor of the exchequer (aka my wife) got back they had sold out

I don’t mind that we can’t preorder, but I do wish they’d at least put the prices on there instead of just “coming soon”. Makes it hard to plan ahead.

[metzger]

I am currently still running on HP G2 1080TI and 8700K, on standby for new GPU since 2080 release I always say I will wait a bit...  Now I can't stand it anymore and I am thinking which way to go:

1. Upgrade only GPU to 3090 - the most cost effective option

2. Go brand new PC but get 2nd hand 3090 - still cost effective as selling the old PC will pay most of the price for new one without GPU

3. Go all-in with 4090

Might also consider 4080. 

How much bottleneck is the 8700K CPU ? will a get enough of an improvement if I choose option 1 ?

I feel really bad to spent 2000eur for a GPU, just doesn't seem justifiable. I don't see any other need for this beast other than DCS and VR, not having any issues with any other game even with my current setup. I can't really understand the demand, either it is artificial or something I am missing but it does not make sense.

 

 

[Digitalvole]

1 hour ago, metzger said:

I can't really understand the demand, either it is artificial or something I am missing but it does not make sense.

 

 

I know what you mean, especially in the UK. Energy bills are now £2500 a year (up from £800 last year), the average mortgage has just gone up by £450 a month (you gotta love the Tories ) And still a £2k gpu sells out in 1 hour.

Its either low stock or scalpers right? Or there are a lot more DCS players in the uk than I thought.

[speed-of-heat]

it's a double win... both heating and entertainment ...and yes yes i know the thermals are good   but it's funny

[Digitalvole]

That was the one benefit of my Alienware R10, heated the room up in no time!

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

8 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

it's a double win... both heating and entertainment ...and yes yes i know the thermals are good   but it's funny

This makes the next in line RTX-5090 even more appealing! Multiple appliances in one neatly little box.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[falcon_120]

I am currently still running on HP G2 1080TI and 8700K, on standby for new GPU since 2080 release I always say I will wait a bit...  Now I can't stand it anymore and I am thinking which way to go:
1. Upgrade only GPU to 3090 - the most cost effective option
2. Go brand new PC but get 2nd hand 3090 - still cost effective as selling the old PC will pay most of the price for new one without GPU
3. Go all-in with 4090
Might also consider 4080. 
How much bottleneck is the 8700K CPU ? will a get enough of an improvement if I choose option 1 ?
I feel really bad to spent 2000eur for a GPU, just doesn't seem justifiable. I don't see any other need for this beast other than DCS and VR, not having any issues with any other game even with my current setup. I can't really understand the demand, either it is artificial or something I am missing but it does not make sense.
 
 

I'm in the same situation as you, I am thinking is it makes sense to buy a 3090ti that I can get for 1300€ in Spain, but I'm also eagerly waiting to see price and reviews of the rtx 4080 and the new Amd gpus to take a final decision....

My 1080ti is holding with dignity but the reverb G2 is asking too much of her XD...

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Digitalvole said:

I know what you mean, especially in the UK. Energy bills are now £2500 a year (up from £800 last year), the average mortgage has just gone up by £450 a month (you gotta love the Tories ) And still a £2k gpu sells out in 1 hour.

Its either low stock or scalpers right? Or there are a lot more DCS players in the uk than I thought.

 

It's scalpers. As long as vendors support selling high volumes to them it will always be this way. The only company that tried to help with this was EVGA and now they are not in the GPU business any longer sadly.

[Digitalvole]

1 minute ago, dburne said:

 

It's scalpers. As long as vendors support selling high volumes to them it will always be this way. The only company that tried to help with this was EVGA and now they are not in the GPU business any longer sadly.

It’s very frustrating, one can only hope the scalpers make a massive loss and give up. But life isn’t an exercise in fairness and ofc the manufacturers are just happy to sell the cards.

Sucks for us though.

On the plus side it seems retailers are pretty confident it isn’t going to be like last time regarding stock levels.

[Harlikwin]

5 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

It’s very frustrating, one can only hope the scalpers make a massive loss and give up. But life isn’t an exercise in fairness and ofc the manufacturers are just happy to sell the cards.

Sucks for us though.

On the plus side it seems retailers are pretty confident it isn’t going to be like last time regarding stock levels.

Honestly IDK who the scalpers think they are going to be selling to. Previously the crypto miners I guess were willing to pay stupid money for cards since they were making money off them. But from what I read that market is basically dead at the moment. So I hope these scalpers loose their ass on the cards. I'm seeing 4090's north of 3k right now. And I doubt anyone is willing to pay that premium.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Harlikwin

[Digitalvole]

Just now, Harlikwin said:

Honestly IDK who the <profanity> the scalpers think they are going to be selling to. Previously the crypto miners I guess were willing to pay stupid money for cards since they were making money off them. But from what I read that market is basically dead at the moment. So I hope these scalpers loose their ass on the cards. I'm seeing 4090's north of 3k right now. And I doubt anyone is willing to pay that premium.

I’m really hoping that’s what happens.

Id like to imagine the average scalper doesn’t have enough intelligence to start a proper/successful business. Therefore think this is an easy sale because of last time, and then have to move house to that lovely cardboard box they saw under a bridge.

[Tom Kazansky]

2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

I'm seeing 4090's north of 3k right now.

Thanks for the update. Makes my answer to OP's question a lot easier: no.

[skywalker22]

3 hours ago, metzger said:

How much bottleneck is the 8700K CPU ?

A lot, might be a a tad better when ED introduce multi-threading.

Try considering at least 10700K, and 3080Ti (or 3090) as well.

[Harlikwin]

3 hours ago, metzger said:

I am currently still running on HP G2 1080TI and 8700K, on standby for new GPU since 2080 release I always say I will wait a bit...  Now I can't stand it anymore and I am thinking which way to go:

1. Upgrade only GPU to 3090 - the most cost effective option

2. Go brand new PC but get 2nd hand 3090 - still cost effective as selling the old PC will pay most of the price for new one without GPU

3. Go all-in with 4090

Might also consider 4080. 

How much bottleneck is the 8700K CPU ? will a get enough of an improvement if I choose option 1 ?

I feel really bad to spent 2000eur for a GPU, just doesn't seem justifiable. I don't see any other need for this beast other than DCS and VR, not having any issues with any other game even with my current setup. I can't really understand the demand, either it is artificial or something I am missing but it does not make sense.

 

 

So, for reference, I went from a 9700k and a 2080ti to a 3090 and saw like maybe a few more frames like 5-10fps more. I then swapped the 9700k for a 12900k and saw a decent 20-30% frame increase. Going from a 1080 to a 3090 will alleviate any GPU bottlenecks you might have, but honestly you need at least a 12900k to get much out of a 3090. In VR rn online CPU is still the bottleneck, and I don't get the full performance from my 3090 it sits at 60-70% utilization.

 

[ChariotOfFLAME]

All the benches I've been seeing indicate the 4090 is CPU limited. In an already heavily CPU limited title, such as DCS (especially for those in VR), I think the 4090 is a waste of money at any price until multithreading (another 2+ years is my guess).

[Digitalvole]

27 minutes ago, ChariotOfFLAME said:

All the benches I've been seeing indicate the 4090 is CPU limited. In an already heavily CPU limited title, such as DCS (especially for those in VR), I think the 4090 is a waste of money at any price until multithreading (another 2+ years is my guess).

I think that depends on the individual to a certain extent.

If you play multiplayer, for example, I would totally agree.

But if you play single player, maybe not so much. Still a factor ofc but not as much. As an example, I’ve been flying the Apache with the Apache Training ground mission, my cpu frame times seem pretty good most of the time (low teens) but my GPU (3090) is clearly showing the strain.

Of course better cpu utilisation can’t come soon enough, but the 4090 appears to be the first gpu where graphic settings, at least, aren’t going to be a problem anymore. I hope so anyway.

[WipeUout]

47 minutes ago, ChariotOfFLAME said:

All the benches I've been seeing indicate the 4090 is CPU limited. In an already heavily CPU limited title, such as DCS (especially for those in VR), I think the 4090 is a waste of money at any price until multithreading (another 2+ years is my guess).

It is not simple.  If your CPU is the bottleneck then getting a CPU with a higher single clock speed will help.  It will give your GPU some breathing room and you will be able to increase details/quality.  Settings also play a role in taxing more or less the CPU along with complexity of the mission (heavy scripting) and amount of action going on, such as the deck of a supercarrier with four catapults working.  One thing for sure, if your CPU can't pump the data to the GPU quick enough, then you may have the fastest GPU and it will not help.  A low CPU frametime should always be the target to get most out of your GPU.  Since I upgraded from a 9900k to a 12700k, my GPU is now the limitation and my CPU frametime is much lower.

The 4090 will allow to push details/quality further as long as you have to CPU to give it breathing space.   Now can someone get one and tell us how good/bad it is?