Normandy 2.0 FAQ

[MAXsenna]

Don't intent convert them on a crusade vs ED as the WW2 assets pack or WW2 inself. The Normandy 2 has been a Ugra Media develop decision, no ED, and UM has very clear about them.

Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

Nobody is on any crusade here.
I find most of the question reasonable.
I have all the maps, and will get the upgrade, but I would love to put N1 to rest and fly all the amazing campaigns on N2!
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Hiob]

17 minutes ago, Cowboy10uk said:

Simple, modern theatres don’t have 3 maps that cover the same area, to be honest if it was a modern theatre that had multiple maps that covered the same area then I would be arguing for them all to be blended and working together as well.    

 

Having to have multiple maps that work independently but cover the same location just does not make any sense whatsoever. 
 

if anything it highlights some serious flaws in the current map system and in the tech used by DCS as a whole.  I do understand the difficulty with the fact that different 3rd partys have made a contract to cover a set area for DCS, and while they all want to improve our sim, at the end of the day, they are competing against each other, so want to get the most customers.    
 

This is the first time we have had a situation that I know of where one company’s product covers the same area as another 3rd parties product and, well to be fair I don’t know what the solution is, although that’s EDs problem not ours.  
 

But as simmers it’s only natural that we would expect the entire of the south cost to be covered in DCS world and the maps to naturally combine together as that is what we are used to in other sims.

you buy a base and then you expend with scenery modules for various parts of the world, BUT the main thing is regardless of who develops it, they ALL merge naturally so we as a simmer don’t notice the changeover. 

 

likewise any missions or campaigns purchased in those sims work regardless so long as you have that scenery area installed.

so in this case I would expect that if you have Normandy 2.0 and the Channel map, then the channel map would naturally override the low res areas of Normandy 2.0., but both maps would be merged and working together to create one large high res area, similar to other sims that are available,  And that all campaigns would work across the board.  

I get your line of reasoning in principle (to some extend I do even agree), but I thought the campaign argument was flawed.

We will see, how it works out.

 

[para504]

I love the idea of an enhanced Normandy map experience, provided its "additive"/enhancement to original and not a separate map.  I'd buy that product in a heart beat.  That is, existing missions and campaigns work, and owners of original and Normandy 2 can co-exist on missions in multi-player (similar to Supercarrier).   Unfortunately with a separate map approach it divides the community, will be a LOT of confusion for what missions work or won't.   Many of us have already invested in Normandy 1, including mission/campaign developers - I seriously doubt many of us have the desire to duplicate that for a redundant map.  The separate map approach seems like it takes a great concept and turns it into something negative for the DCS community (the negative results outweigh the good).     

I applaud the developers for enhancing the experience and thrilled to see continued investment in WWII era, but the separate map approach is not the way to go.

 

[JokerMan]

1 hour ago, Vatikus said:

They hope that will be enough to sell you 2 maps and not just 1

If (and I mean 'If') this is indeed true ... the result (speaking for myself) is a feeling of discouragement towards buying N2, notwithstanding the discount. (I already own the N1 and Channel maps).

Hmmmm!

S!

Edited October 11, 2022 by JokerMan

[Beirut]

I maintain that the Normandy 2 map will end up replacing both Normandy 1 and the Channel, that this will be announced prior to release, and that the map will have a new name.

 

This was a less than successful rollout. While it should have been pretty easy to get a "Yes!"  like with the Tornado, we got an "Ummm... yeah, but..."  That's not a great start. Unfortunately it's likely to get worse until it gets better, and the better will be a new map with a new name to replace both Normandy 1 and the Channel.

 

That said, I am optimistic. It's going to be a great map, I'm looking forward to it, and it's a day one purchase for me. London and Paris, baby! 

[skywalker22]

Do simply:

Normady 1.0 and Channel users can delete for good, if Normany 2.0 will be added to the list of maps. 

Please do not mess with trying to join together, there will be a huge mess.

For purchasing Normandy 2.0, discounts for owners of Normandy 1.0 and/or Channel stay as suggested in 1st post of this thread. Everybody else pay full price.

Nobody else will fly the old maps when Normandy 2.0 will be released.

Edited October 11, 2022 by skywalker22

[JokerMan]

1 minute ago, skywalker22 said:

Do simply:

Normady 1.0 and Channel delete for good (do not mess with trying to join together, there will be a huge mess)

For purchasing Normandy 2.0, discounts for owners of Normandy 1.0 and/or Channel stay as suggested in 1st post of this thread. Everybody else pay full price.

In fairness, delete nothing, freeze N1 and Channel so existing users are not penalised.

 

[GUFA]

@ Beirut

 Please add Rene's Cafe.

[Magic Zach]

4 hours ago, RafaPolit said:

@Magic Zachbut the maps are more than just square miles!  They allow you to "tell the story" of your flights.  You use them in campaigns, in missions in multi-player games.  So, put yourself into the mind of a new player coming to DCS the very next day of Normandy 2.0 release day and looking at the scenario:

"Hmmm... Ok, so I cannot fly anywhere, I need to buy not only the planes, but the maps.  Not what the competition is doing, let's see.  I think I want to fly WWII, what do I need? Mhm, a plane... great, some obvious choices, but wait, isn't the FW190 one plane? Apparently not, I have to pay twice for the different versions. Ok, I'm a bit confused, and a little pissed.  Now, as for the map, obviously the British channel makes sense.  So, the Channel? Wait, for there is also Normandy, a few miles west of the other map?  Hm.  I didn't want to buy two.  I want to pick one.  Let's read a bit deeper, but I am more confused.  So far, not enjoying a lot the experience"

"Ok, what? Two Normandy Maps.  Makes no sense... oh, I see, there is a new one, covering a larger area. Nice! Obviously V2, right? The newer, more complete and larger-are map.  Wait, it also includes the Channel! Great, a no brainer.  Should I know more? No, I'm all set"

"Wait, wait... the Dunkirk area, a favorite historic place would be in Low Res mode?  Why? Oh, because they also want to sell me the "other map".... Now I am less confused maybe, but more pissed of.  Still, between the 2 Normandy's, the choice is clear right... I'm set.  One nice plane, one map.  Now, onto the 'story' for my flights... a really nice campaign in this region... WHAT? Campaigns only work for the V1 version I DIDN'T PURCHASE? and there is no new content for V2?  Wait, so the creators of content are pissed because they have to do their work all over again and they won't migrate their missions to the new map? So now I need to purchase ALSO V1 if I want to do anything other than just sight seeing in a COMBAT SIMULATOR? Now I'm really pissed, and I haven't yet flown a single minute of airtime"

There are alternatives, obviously.  You can spend months learning how to create your own campaigns, put lots of AI or create a multiplayer server.  Another alternative? Don't do campaigns, jump right into a multiplayer server without having done a single simple Air-to-Air kill and have your a*s served in a platter.  Surely that describes a "great" experience for a new comer to the sim.

Do you think such a person will linger a lot faced with that scenario?  Do you think it's a "reasonable" experience to expect from users trying to decide in which of the several SIMs to spend their money in?  I honestly think this is not in the best interest of ED. I seriously think this will piss off / confuse a lot of current users and even more so the new users.

 

You overestimate how confusing it really is.  There was an old Normandy, now there is a new one with more area.  It's that simple.  Didn't need the 3 chapters of dialogue lol

[para504]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Ugra Media are obviously passionate about Normandy and want to bring to us all new features, higher detail and a larger area, why would we ( ED ) stop them? 
They have offered amazing discounts for owners of Normandy and The Channel, compatibility with campaigns and multiplayer. 

At the end of the day it is optional, if you dont like it you dont have to upgrade.

The reason why ED should "care" is because a map (especially a redundant one that breaks existing content with missions and campaigns) is a reflection on ED's ecosystem.  Players will be looking to ED for answers, not Ugra...  The design decisions have an impact on the broader community, for both single and multi-player environments.   The Normandy 2 enhancement is a wonderful idea, but not if breaks more than it fixes.   I'm saying this as a long time DCS supporter, an avid Warbird fan, and I appreciate the continued investment.  I just don't want to see a potential win with enhanced Normandy and see it turn sour.  

[Magic Zach]

5 hours ago, Ydjslm said:

It's unfair for players who have bought both Normandy map and Channel map.

For players who had bought Normandy and Channel map they pay $44.99+$49.99+$9.9=$104.97 for Normandy 2 map and Channel map.
For players who only bought Channel map they pay $49.99+$14.99=$64.98 for Normandy 2 map and Channel map.

On sale,Normandy map -50% and Channel map -30%.
For players who had bought Normandy and Channel map they pay $22.495+$34.993+$9.9=$67.388 for Normandy 2 map and Channel map.
For players who only bought Channel map they pay $34.993+$14.99=$49.983 for Normandy 2 map and Channel map.

Change 'DCS: Normandy 2 will be available as a complete map for $59.99 USD. If you have either DCS: Normandy 1944 or DCS: The Channel maps, you can purchase Normandy 2 for $14.99 USD. If you own both, you can purchase DCS: Normandy 2 for only $9.99 USD.' into 'DCS: Normandy 2 will be available as a complete map for $59.99 USD. If you have DCS: Normandy 1944, you can purchase Normandy 2 for $14.99 USD.',then I will say nothing.

The only unfair thing would be that the Channel and Normandy map are separated, and you cannot fly from one map into the other without closing the mission and opening a different one.
Not quite sure what you're trying to say expense-wise though.  You're taking maps that cover separate areas, adding them together, and then calling the discount for an entirely new area unfair.  Doesn't make sense.  The area the Normandy 2 map overlaps with the Channel is in low detail, so there may not be much redundancy to the north east anyways.
And besides that, I would welcome the redundancy since it would make the Normandy 2 map much more uniform, than having an L-shaped area of detail.  That last part is more personal preference for me though, not any real numbers.
And besides that(again lol), the real numbers; the discounted price for Normandy 2 is so minimal that you are essentially only paying for entirely new land area that neither Channel or Normandy v1 covered, this being the area to the north and east (excluding the low detail area where the Channel overlaps).  If you have both maps, you are only paying $10 for the new land areas around London and east of Evreux.  $10 for that.  There is no ripoff here, if anything a steal of a price considering the $/sq-mi alone if you at least estimate a calculation of it.  Those with Channel+Normandy are purchasing the previously-undone land areas for 1500sq/mi per $1...for a grand total of $10 altogether.

I can't fathom why people are losing their heads over paying a discounted price over new map area that they definitely, absolutely, would NOT have had before.
BOTTOM LINE: You are, essentially, not paying a second time for map area you already have.  You are paying for all-new land/map area.  Plus if you had Normandy v1, you are getting a free graphical upgrade to the Normandy v1 area, by how it sounds...at least corrected airfields which was pretty needed.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Magic Zach

[Beirut]

7 minutes ago, Magic Zach said:

You overestimate how confusing it really is.  There was an old Normandy, now there is a new one with more area.  It's that simple.  

 

You underestimate how confused some of us usually are. 

 

Look, I'm a simple guy and I love new maps. This should have been a home run, but it ended up being confusing for some and frustrating for others. As stated, that's not a great start. And that's a shame because this is going to be a great map no matter its final shape and size. But, being a simple guy, that initial map graphic with boxes on boxes inside other boxes was not exactly blowing warm air up my shorts. As an explanation, maybe it worked. As enticement, not so much.

 

This has all been a bit more kerfuddled than need be.

[Magic Zach]

On a different note, I'm keeping my eye out for a lot of airfields when this comes out, using that PDF I dropped on page 2 of this thread 
This is only the airfields in France (not ALGs) from A to halfway through C!  Still adding more.  Not all of these are involved with the map ofc, or in its timeline, but it helps get a better picture

Edited October 11, 2022 by Magic Zach

[Pappy]

15 hours ago, NineLine said:

No the discount is for current owners of Normandy 1 and The Channel. There would be no other discounts in reverse. 

Do you know that for sure?  Why would he say there would be?  I don't know either way, but $9.00 $14.00 or even $40.00 is not that much for the benefit it gives me.   Really, we spend that much at McDonalds for lunch... $40 if you have a family and that just fills the belly at noon.  I for one thank those who add to my passion and love of flying at really, a fair price for time and effort of creating it. If I can afford it, I buy it because I like it,  If I can't, I do not buy it.

My opinion, not meant to offend.

[Gunfreak]

37 minutes ago, Magic Zach said:

BOTTOM LINE: You are, essentially, not paying a second time for map area you already have.  You are paying for all-new land/map area.  Plus if you had Normandy v1, you are getting a free graphical upgrade to the Normandy v1 area, by how it sounds...at least corrected airfields which was pretty needed.

 

But I'm not getting a free upgrade. 1. It will cost money, not a lot but some, so it's not free. And it's not an upgrade,  because the campaigns and missions made for Normandy 1 doesn't appear to work for Normandy 2.

So I'll be stuck with lesser quality Normandy 1 map if I want to play the campaigns I payed good money for.

[XCNuse]

38 minutes ago, Magic Zach said:

BOTTOM LINE: You are, essentially, not paying a second time for map area you already have.  You are paying for all-new land/map area.  Plus if you had Normandy v1, you are getting a free graphical upgrade to the Normandy v1 area, by how it sounds...at least corrected airfields which was pretty needed.

Point to me on the map and tell me I'm not getting the same plot of land, without pointing at the same plot of land and saying it's not the same.

 

Until we see evidence of these "low detail" areas... nobody has said once anything about any "upgrade" to the Normandy and Channel maps.

For all we know, Eiffel tower won't even be in Normandy 1 and Channel maps by the sound of it.

 

These use of words like "low detail" aren't really giving a good explanation of how this is supposed to work.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Gunfreak said:

But I'm not getting a free upgrade. 1. It will cost money, not a lot but some, so it's not free. And it's not an upgrade,  because the campaigns and missions made for Normandy 1 doesn't appear to work for Normandy 2.

So I'll be stuck with lesser quality Normandy 1 map if I want to play the campaigns I payed good money for.

The upgrade costs, there is a discount however, you are paying for Normandy 2 with more terrain and much higher details.

You are not stuck, you have what you have now and always will have, the missions with still play in Normandy that you already have. 

Bottom line is if you want Normandy 2 with more detail and terrain you can upgrade, if not you dont have to. 

[Gunfreak]

57 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

The upgrade costs, there is a discount however, you are paying for Normandy 2 with more terrain and much higher details.

You are not stuck, you have what you have now and always will have, the missions with still play in Normandy that you already have. 

Bottom line is if you want Normandy 2 with more detail and terrain you can upgrade, if not you dont have to. 

But it's not an upgrade,  as has been made clear this is a new map, covering the same area and more, but not an upgrade,  and upgrade means it's an improved version of the old map which is what it looked like in the orignal news on Friday. But it's not, and so the content made for Normandy 1, can't be used for Normandy 2.

Players who want to play campaigns made by content creators, will have to buy the old map to play. You know the map that is worse. You're asking people to buy the sub par map if they want to fly a certain campgian.

Apperantly this is perfectly fine to ask customers to do. 

How many new players are already confused when buying campaigns,  they buy a campaign, and nothing works  because they didn't understand they needed maps, assets and plane.

Now new players are gonna be even more confused,  with two maps named almost the same thing , covering the same area. I can guarantee new people will by the new Normandy map only to discover they need the old one to fly the campaign they bought. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Gunfreak

[GUFA]

1 hour ago, Magic Zach said:

There is no ripoff here, if anything a steal of a price considering the $/sq-mi alone if you at least estimate a calculation of it. 

Just a gentle reminder that that price is in USD. In my neck of the woods that is $15.6? on the google cc. I'm not saying this to be snarky, and I do believe that it is ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT IS WORTH IT as of 12:00pm 11/10/22 but it hasn't always been that way...
 

Edited October 11, 2022 by GUFA
improving comprehension for reader

[Skewgear]

1 hour ago, Magic Zach said:

On a different note, I'm keeping my eye out for a lot of airfields when this comes out, using that PDF I dropped on page 2 of this thread 
This is only the airfields in France (not ALGs) from A to halfway through C!  Still adding more.  Not all of these are involved with the map ofc, or in its timeline, but it helps get a better picture

 

How many of these were active during the Operation Neptune period (June - August 1944)? I see some are in red with what might be closure dates on them. Would be good to have a similar map but only displaying airfields that were operating during that specific period, as that is what Ugra tells us they're going to be modelling.

Still scratching my head at the lack of Dreux, one of the main Luftwaffe operating bases during the Normandy campaign, or any USAAF stations in England. The original UK airfields made sense at an early stage of DCS WW2: Needs Oar Point was a major Typhoon base, Tangmere and Ford housed multiple Spitfire wings (and in Ford's case a major Spitfire MRO unit) that were posted to France as advanced landing grounds were built there, Funtington housed UK-based Spitfire wings held in reserve during Operation Overlord/Neptune.

[Magic Zach]

1 hour ago, XCNuse said:

Point to me on the map and tell me I'm not getting the same plot of land, without pointing at the same plot of land and saying it's not the same.

Ask and ye shall recieve

[twistking]

I remember that ED once said tgey were working on - or at least considering - tech that could change aspects of maps. This would come in really handy here to hide those advanced landing grounds in France giving the map much more credibility for pre-invasion missions. The history buffs will of course always find a thousand more things to be ahistoric, but i think for the general playerbase, the advanced landing grounds are THE giveaway that the map is mid/late 1944.

[71st_AH Rob]

So a question and a consideration.  I know that ED is working on making the Dedicated Server a bit more friendly, especially with all the new maps announced I hope that they make this a priority and make rapid progress.

As it stands, if Normandy 2 were to release today, I would have no choice but to have all three maps installed on my server which will need a new larger SSD.  This also makes a hosting service untenable unless you are doing well with donations.  

A better solution from my perspective would be to actually replace Normandy V1.0 and then I only require two maps of the same area. 

So now to the question; will the ability to select maps for the Dedicated Server be initiated before this map is released? And following up, if I can select to only host the Normandy v2.0 map to save space, will players who only have Normandy v1.0 still be able to join or will comparability only work if I have both maps on my server?

 

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

So a question and a consideration.  I know that ED is working on making the Dedicated Server a bit more friendly, especially with all the new maps announced I hope that they make this a priority and make rapid progress.

As it stands, if Normandy 2 were to release today, I would have no choice but to have all three maps installed on my server which will need a new larger SSD.  This also makes a hosting service untenable unless you are doing well with donations.  

A better solution from my perspective would be to actually replace Normandy V1.0 and then I only require two maps of the same area. 

So now to the question; will the ability to select maps for the Dedicated Server be initiated before this map is released? And following up, if I can select to only host the Normandy v2.0 map to save space, will players who only have Normandy v1.0 still be able to join or will comparability only work if I have both maps on my server?

 

I will chase the server issue up regarding space. 

[Magic Zach]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

But I'm not getting a free upgrade. 1. It will cost money, not a lot but some, so it's not free. And it's not an upgrade,  because the campaigns and missions made for Normandy 1 doesn't appear to work for Normandy 2.

So I'll be stuck with lesser quality Normandy 1 map if I want to play the campaigns I payed good money for.

I didn't say the upgrade was free however.  Just that the area you already own in Normandy 1 or Channel is essentially already payed for in Normandy 2, if you already own it.

Yeah broken missions is gonna suck for many though