investigating Large performance drop in VR after updating to 2.8

[slughead]

4 hours ago, Hiob said:

Have the fire extinguisher in close proximity!

 Worry not, cables properly routed to relieve stress at the socket.

[darkman222]

@BIGNEWY Sorry for being late with a test of the latest 2.8.0.32235.1 Open Beta. You can see that even without any shadows switched on, with my PC I lose about 2 ms GPU frame time. And a little CPU frame time.

I am sure you guys are already investigating in every direction. But the performance drop is still present without any shadows.  This is tested with a single F16 over Caucasus and nothing else in the mission to eliminate as much factors as possible. Running a RTX 4090, I 19200KF and Pimax 8KX headset.

 

perf_test_caucasus.miz

Edited November 10, 2022 by darkman222

[Rufuz64]

The problem seems to occur if you use _no_ shadows

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Rufuz64

[BIGNEWY]

7 minutes ago, Rufuz64 said:

The problem seems to occur if you use _no_ shadows

 

 

 

the no terrain shadows issue was fixed in the last patch. 

We continue to look into the FPS issue some people are seeing. 

15 hours ago, darkman222 said:

@BIGNEWY Sorry for being late with a test of the latest 2.8.0.32235.1 Open Beta. You can see that even without any shadows switched on, with my PC I lose about 2 ms GPU frame time. And a little CPU frame time.

I am sure you guys are already investigating in every direction. But the performance drop is still present without any shadows.  This is tested with a single F16 over Caucasus and nothing else in the mission to eliminate as much factors as possible. Running a RTX 4090, I 19200KF and Pimax 8KX headset.

thank you for your data

Something that was mentioned to me recently, if you are using tacview disable it during VR sessions when not needed, do you see a FPS change? 

[speed-of-heat]

23 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

the no terrain shadows issue was fixed in the last patch. 

We continue to look into the FPS issue some people are seeing. 

thank you for your data

Something that was mentioned to me recently, if you are using tacview disable it during VR sessions when not needed, do you see a FPS change? 

I don't enable tacview 

[Art-J]

OK, I know it's a VR thread, but I'll post more 2D observations just for the sake of troubleshooting. I've been trying to figure out microstuttering that happens in 2.8 when I look sideways or into the cockpit, even though the FPS counter says I'm supposedly locked at 60 (V-synced). I don't know how to decipher all the data in revised performance screens, but one particular thing leaves me puzzled.

Below are two screens taken on the ground during stock TF-51 cold start mission. When I'm looking at the distant airport objects, the frametime is low (the spike is caused by printscreen) and the frametime graph is butter smooth. When I look down the cockpit (and notice stutter while doing so), the frametime graph goes see-saw crazy and stays like that, even though number of objects and polygons in the scene is basically halved and I'm looking at one point, trying not to move my head at all. What gives?

Is it the new 2.8 cockpits shading, that might be causing problems?

 

[zildac]

33 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

the no terrain shadows issue was fixed in the last patch. 

We continue to look into the FPS issue some people are seeing. 

thank you for your data

Something that was mentioned to me recently, if you are using tacview disable it during VR sessions when not needed, do you see a FPS change? 

@BIGNEWY Just to clarify, there is still a big performance difference between Terrain Shadows = FLAT/DEFAULT versus OFF (2.7 86FPS terrain shadows FLAT 2.8 60 FPSish FLAT), the fix you mention I’m assuming refers to the visual attributes of the terrain shadows NOT the performance impact? Also, the additional canopy shadows from the cockpit seem to be a new feature that may have some impact.

 

As mentioned in a number of other threads, if I turn terrain shadows to OFF I get my 2.7 performance back

Edited November 10, 2022 by zildac

[WipeUout]

...and the tacview FPS cost is a well known issue both in 2D and 3D.  Personally, I switched off tacview a year and a half ago.  

[HeavyGun1450]

1 hour ago, zildac said:

@BIGNEWY Just to clarify, there is still a big performance difference between Terrain Shadows = FLAT/DEFAULT versus OFF (2.7 86FPS terrain shadows FLAT 2.8 60 FPSish FLAT), the fix you mention I’m assuming refers to the visual attributes of the terrain shadows NOT the performance impact? Also, the additional canopy shadows from the cockpit seem to be a new feature that may have some impact.

 

As mentioned in a number of other threads, if I turn terrain shadows to OFF I get my 2.7 performance back

 

This. Flat terrain shadows still arent working properly.

[fagulha]

VR user here. Yes to be able to fly i must disable FLAT Shadows. Having them on flat or default/medium has the same performance hit. Unflyable with Shadows on FLAT. Without mention the white halo around the aircraft tyres (although this is already stated as reported).

[Drac]

1 hour ago, WipeUout said:

...and the tacview FPS cost is a well known issue both in 2D and 3D.  Personally, I switched off tacview a year and a half ago.  

How did you switch off Tacview?

[WipeUout]

8 minutes ago, Drac said:

How did you switch off Tacview?

I think there was a check box in settings/special but eventually I simply uninstalled it

[Drac]

9 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

I think there was a check box in settings/special but eventually I simply uninstalled it

Copy.  I want to compare frame rate with it on and off.  Thanks..

[speed-of-heat]

a lot depends on the number of objects 

[darkman222]

@BIGNEWYDeinstalled Tacview. Framerate drop is still the same. And no matter what terrain shadow mode I use OFF, Default, Flat. The framerate drop stays comparable.

[fagulha]

3 hours ago, Drac said:

How did you switch off Tacview?

Go to Module Manager in DCS and you can disable it with a click.

[Drac]

1 hour ago, fagulha said:

Go to Module Manager in DCS and you can disable it with a click.

Thanks..

[fagulha]

46 minutes ago, Drac said:

Thanks..

Glad i could help. Enjoy.

[pastranario3]

hace 6 horas, fagulha dijo:

VR user here. Yes to be able to fly i must disable FLAT Shadows. Having them on flat or default/medium has the same performance hit. Unflyable with Shadows on FLAT. Without mention the white halo around the aircraft tyres (although this is already stated as reported).

"Without mention the white halo around the aircraft tyres"...
ufff I thought I was the only one who saw this defect

[Flappie]

1 minute ago, pastranario3 said:

ufff I thought I was the only one who saw this defect

Nope, it's global. Caused by MSAA + Flat shadows. It's reported already.

[RuskyV]

In VR I’ve noticed that stuttering and high frame times comes from within the cockpit when looking out through the glass reflections. In the F2 view looking at the aircraft from the outside the frames times completely smooth out. 
 

While in external views and moving around scenery there is very little impact on frame time or FPS. It seems that reflections and external lighting impacting the cockpit see’s the biggest drop in performance. 
 

The trees also seem to have a really weird shine to them when in direct sunlight, when observed through cockpit glass also sees a hit in FPS. Opening and closing the cockpit while looking at any object that is reflecting has a fairly large impact on the Stuttering.

 there must be an issue somewhere with lighting reflections..

[HeavyGun1450]

1 minute ago, RuskyV said:

In VR I’ve noticed that stuttering and high frame times comes from within the cockpit when looking out through the glass reflections. In the F2 view looking at the aircraft from the outside the frames times completely smooth out. 
 

While in external views and moving around scenery there is very little impact on frame time or FPS. It seems that reflections and external lighting impacting the cockpit see’s the biggest drop in performance. 
 

The trees also seem to have a really weird shine to them when in direct sunlight, when observed through cockpit glass also sees a hit in FPS. Opening and closing the cockpit while looking at any object that is reflecting has a fairly large impact on the Stuttering.

 there must be an issue somewhere with lighting reflections..

Agreed, I get excellent fps in the f2 external views, but go to f1 cockpit view you get much much lower frames 

[pastranario3]

Well I've got the fps back by lowering pixel density to 0.5 and increasing the multiplier since steam vr. For hp reverb 1: pixel density 1.0+steamvr 100% = pixel density 0.5+steamvr 400%. In the forum there is a calculator that helps to find the equivalences, search as PDSSCalc

[slughead]

16 minutes ago, RuskyV said:

In VR I’ve noticed that stuttering and high frame times comes from within the cockpit when looking out through the glass reflections. In the F2 view looking at the aircraft from the outside the frames times completely smooth out. 
 

While in external views and moving around scenery there is very little impact on frame time or FPS. It seems that reflections and external lighting impacting the cockpit see’s the biggest drop in performance. 
 

The trees also seem to have a really weird shine to them when in direct sunlight, when observed through cockpit glass also sees a hit in FPS. Opening and closing the cockpit while looking at any object that is reflecting has a fairly large impact on the Stuttering.

 there must be an issue somewhere with lighting reflections..

Have you tested with cockpit reflections disabled?

[RuskyV]

11 minutes ago, slughead said:

Have you tested with cockpit reflections disabled?

Yes, I have cockpit reflections disabled as a personal preference. Although I have noticed that the option seems to have no impact on the cockpit instruments, especially the warbirds with the traditional dials.

Edited November 10, 2022 by RuskyV