AAR - Pilot View point

[Caldera]

Hey all,

The F-15E AAR is giving me fits.  Mostly it is the viewpoint of the pilot, because the canopy bow seems purposely placed to be precisely in the way.  I have also noticed that the jet likes to porpoise in the vertical axis at refueling speeds which doesn't help either.

 

For the Pilot not so easy

For the WSO easy peasy

The pictures above are using about the same zoom.  The pilot's head and the WSO's head are both at the default position. 

 

I have tried moving the pilot's head position (using the seat adjustment) to the maximum up or down positions and both can help.

But...

The dang canopy bow always seems to get in the way somehow and block the view of the indexer at a critical time.

 

Couple of questions as I am sure this problem is accurate (not realistic):

How is everyone else dealing with this?

How accurate (not realistic) is it for the pilot to have to move his seat up or down (allot)?

 

Thanks in advance,

Caldera

 

[MAXsenna]

For me, it is exactly how you describe it.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[sirrah]

I think we need a (former) SE pilot to properly answer whether this is "realistic" or not, but fwiw:

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that this actually was/is a thing irl (my memory failed me before , but I think I read it in William L. Smallwood's Strike Eagle).

Also, knowing how much attention to detail is put into all DCS modules, I can't imagine Razbam (nor ED, for the KC135), got the dimensions of their models wrong.

[Moosemermaid]

Best thing i did was totally ditched the lights and practiced until i got a site picture that i could reliable reproduce. 

[Ramsay]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

How accurate (not realistic) is it for the pilot to have to move his seat up or down (allot)?

AFAIK the in game pilot eye position is a compromise between the real life eye position and cockpit readability - which why there are Special Options VR and Monitor eyepoint offset adjustments in DCS>Options>Special>F-15E

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

I have tried moving the pilot's head position (using the seat adjustment) to the maximum up or down positions and both can help.

Don't forget you can move the view forwards and back as well.

[lee1hy]

I use a mirror

but f-15e aar is very difficult

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I keep the boom lights in-between the top of the HUD and the canopy bow. I fly exclusively in VR and use the default "5cm" setting in the Special Options.
That works quite well

[Coxy_99]

Seems to be a skill issue (Joke aside) Just adjust either A your view or B practice more. I still struggle to do it but once i find the hole i refrenence apart of the tanker with my HUD.

[Mistermann]

6 hours ago, lee1hy said:

...but f-15e aar is very difficult

Amen.  Infinitely harder than the hornet.  At least for me.  Feeling like I did back when learning to AAR the F18.  I just can't get the PIO and throttle in order.  

I know it's just a matter of practice, but this is very humbling right now.

[jaylw314]

She's terribly heavy, and it does seem like there's a bit of a longer time delay between applying a pitch input and seeing the results (which I suppose makes sense).  That's a recipe for PIO's until you retune the PID's in your head  

I haven't found the positioning of the director lights to be an issue, they can be seen most of the time.  They'll get blocked if I'm out of position sometimes, but I'm mostly looking at the tanker body for positioning, and glancing every few seconds at the director lights to recalibrate my position.  By the time I'm too low and forwards to have the lights blocked, I already know I'm AFU and have to fix it...

Edited July 5, 2023 by jaylw314

[DARKCODE]

i stay right here where show and the tanker will connect and the tiniest movement and i mean tiny we talkin millimetres here it just disconnects
ed: dont irl boom tanks lock the jet in and make it easier to hold formation once connected when you connect to boom in dcs still feels liek you are flying with no boom locked onto you essentially attaching you to the tanker

Edited August 25, 2023 by DARKCODE

[Tom Kazansky]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:24 PM, Caldera said:

How accurate (not realistic) is it for the pilot to have to move his seat up or down (allot)?

In VR I use the seat adjustment for AAR, dogfight and landing (some times). I had no problems with finding a good spot for AAR in the F-15E.

I started to use a switch of my HOTAS (throttle) for seat adjustment (or vertical camera adjustment for modules that don't have the other) while I was learning the Mirage 2000C.

[HiWay]

To me WSO seat w/o any view adjustments more comfortable. Approach as a Pilot and switch to WSO for refuel

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[Rainmaker]

Listen to the AB podcast (on of the more recent ones). The ex -16 guy who now flies with FANG in charlies has directly commented on the exact issue. Likely why the common sight picture doesnt focus on using the lights. 
 

send your hate to Boeing, since McD is no longer. 

[Rainmaker]

start at 33:00. Bow comments around 36:00

[draconus]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:22 AM, DARKCODE said:

i stay right here where show and the tanker will connect and the tiniest movement and i mean tiny we talkin millimetres here it just disconnects
ed: dont irl boom tanks lock the jet in and make it easier to hold formation once connected when you connect to boom in dcs still feels liek you are flying with no boom locked onto you essentially attaching you to the tanker

The effect of dragging the aircraft with the boom is not implemented in DCS but the boom does allow you for some movements in every direction, just stay within the limits (read: practice more).

[Rainmaker]

The thoughts of that really being a thing is likely vastly overblown.  Ref same pod cast above. Pilots still have IRL problems coming off the boom. Probably one of the best DCS procedures is to not still in the same pos the boom first hooks up at. Move fwd and pad the room you have before you get too far away and disconnect. There is room to guve yourself a better range for error. 

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

The thoughts of that really being a thing is likely vastly overblown.

Just the thing I heard from boom operator that they could move the stable aircraft around after connection with the boom controls.

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Just the thing I heard from boom operator that they could move the stable aircraft around after connection with the boom controls.

Yeah, I could understand that. Its a coupling. So pushing aft and side to side would be believable to an extent. Dragging would not. Dont remember the force disconnect pressure, but its not that much…for good reason. 

[Mav87th]

afaik the boomer can press a switch and lock the boom in place and then drag the coupled up jet.

[Nealius]

In VR I don't particularly have a problem, since the director lights fit nicely in the space between the HUD glass and canopy bow. But I also notice the pitch sensitivity, and the fore/aft director lights are extremely difficult to see compared to the vertical position lights.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

In VR I don't particularly have a problem, since the director lights fit nicely in the space between the HUD glass and canopy bow. But I also notice the pitch sensitivity, and the fore/aft director lights are extremely difficult to see compared to the vertical position lights.

There is a mod for vertical lights but no idea how affects ic or your favorite mp servers. 

Is on dcs user files. It helps indeed 

[Rainmaker]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:33 AM, Mav87th said:

afaik the boomer can press a switch and lock the boom in place and then drag the coupled up jet.

No. That’s not how that works.