not planned Irregular Forces Factions - HAMAS, HIZBOLLAH, HUTi, Al-QAEDAH, ISIS, PLO

[_Defi]

It would be useful if it was possible to place Irregular Armed Forces in the Missions, such as

Hamas

Hizbollah

Huti

Al-Qedah

ISIS 

PLO

 

[Mr_sukebe]

I think you’ll find that it’s covered with “insurgents”

[Gunfreak]

Jupp insurgents. Tho one of the 3d models look very afgani. And doesn't really fit more middle Eastern styles. 

The other guy is just a commo dude with beard.

[BIGNEWY]

We have no plans to add this. 

Insurgents is the closest you will get in DCS. 

thank you

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, _Defi said:

It would be useful if it was possible to place Irregular Armed Forces in the Missions, such as

Hamas

Hizbollah

Huti

Al-Qedah

ISIS 

PLO

 

We have the insurgent faction, which can be identified as anyone you want in the briefing. 

 

15 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We have no plans to add this. 

Insurgents is the closest you will get in DCS. 

thank you

I'm guessing the reasons behind not naming any real-world group in the mission editor is the fact you're less apt to have someone get angry about Hamas or ISIS in the game, and there really isn't that big of a differnce.   I could see some logic behind multiple irregular factions though if you wanted to create a scenario where there are irregulars on both sides. If that were the goal I would clone the insurgents and call them militia. It would avoid the problems of naming real-world groups. 

[_Defi]

40 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

We have the insurgent faction, which can be identified as anyone you want in the briefing. 

 

I'm guessing the reasons behind not naming any real-world group in the mission editor is the fact you're less apt to have someone get angry about Hamas or ISIS in the game, and there really isn't that big of a differnce.   I could see some logic behind multiple irregular factions though if you wanted to create a scenario where there are irregulars on both sides. If that were the goal I would clone the insurgents and call them militia. It would avoid the problems of naming real-world groups. 

@BIGNEWY @Gunfreak Ok. but I don't quite follow. Russia, USA, etc are also real world groups on a national level with their own flag, uniform etc. I was thinking to make a mission really realistic I would want some green bandana wearing Hamas soldiers on the syria map moving forward on foot, on motorbikes, with shoulder mounted ATGMs or converted Open Top Cars. In the end it's all about realism to me. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by _Defi

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

a task like this would take a lot of time and resources which could be used else where, we have no plans to model individual factions. 

[_Defi]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Jupp insurgents. Tho one of the 3d models look very afgani. And doesn't really fit more middle Eastern styles. 

The other guy is just a commo dude with beard.

@Mr_sukebe @Gunfreak You are right the insurgent is modelled after an Afghani Fighter. He is wearing the typical wooden hat. For Syria you would want them wearing the PLA scarf that's typical for the Lebanese/Israeli conflict.  The Syria map is nice, it would be logical to include traditional Lebanese forces in Israel, Palestine, Syria which have existed since what 70 years now? I think the argument that these groups might feel offended is a bit far fetched. They would probably be honoured to be mentioned there since they are fighting for recognition. There is absolutely no reason why you should not include them (except for censorship reasons like YT etc). Let's not mention it anywhere, it will go away if we dont mention it.  It would even benefit sales in fact. You have the WWII packs after all too, where a similar dilemma exists but it's brushed over since it's a well established gaming scenario. Progress is needed!

Edited December 8, 2023 by _Defi
typo

[Insonia]

You will find the same old same old topic in Bohemia, Squad, and many many other mil sim forums too. No developer will reply or agree with you on this point. they jsut avoid this topic. The best they can do is keep a blind eye on user-generated mods.

What a lot of other game companies try to do is change names, flags, places, and uniforms so they barely resemble what the original portrays. it's the safer approach.

 

You may find this ridiculous, hypocritical, and comical, but it is also an unfortunate truth about how this world works.

 

 

[Tank50us]

Probably the best thing that ED could do is add more assets that are used by assorted insurgent groups. They could make some additional infantry models that are more "thematic" than specific. For example you could see some dudes in black outfits and tan 'boonie caps', which look close enough to be VC, but could just as easily be an eastern themed PMC member.

Other assets that could be added could be small RIBs, which can be used as some sort of patrol boat, a pleasure boat in need of help, or, with the help of some scripting, a suicide boat.

They could also add some COIN equipment, such as MRAP vehicles, like this:

[upyr1]

13 hours ago, _Defi said:

@BIGNEWY @Gunfreak Ok. but I don't quite follow. Russia, USA, etc are also real world groups on a national level with their own flag, uniform etc. I was thinking to make a mission really realistic I would want some green bandana wearing Hamas soldiers on the syria map moving forward on foot, on motorbikes, with shoulder mounted ATGMs or converted Open Top Cars. In the end it's all about realism to me. 

 

Russia and the US are both viewed as legitimate nation-states by the governments of the world and most people. I don't know what the laws are like in Israel or any other mid-east nation but I would imagine it might anger someone 

[cfrag]

I must say that I’m continually in awe of some people’s eyesight and their hardware‘s power of resolution. Except perhaps for the color scheme of the uniform, poor me can’t tell the difference between a Soldier M4 and an Insurgent at 10m away, much less from the cockpit of my Apache, Hind or Hornet while I’m running in.

So to me it’s not that relevant how the soldiers look or what headdress they have. The vehicles (including boats) though, seem much more important to me - and thankfully, that group seems to expand (technicals). I agree that we do need a couple more of these small boats, though.

 

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, cfrag said:

I must say that I’m continually in awe of some people’s eyesight and their hardware‘s power of resolution. Except perhaps for the color scheme of the uniform, poor me can’t tell the difference between a Soldier M4 and an Insurgent at 10m away, much less from the cockpit of my Apache, Hind or Hornet while I’m running in.

So to me it’s not that relevant how the soldiers look or what headdress they have. The vehicles (including boats) though, seem much more important to me - and thankfully, that group seems to expand (technicals). I agree that we do need a couple more of these small boats, though.

 

You'll notice it if you are dropping off trops in a Huey.

Or is a content creator. DCS' biggest advertisement is the free publicity they get from big and small YouTube DCS content creators. That make cool videos. And the better and more realistic stuff looks the better for DCS it is.

Given all infantry uses the same AI, and there's no complex stuff around it. It would be relatively quick to add many new infantry units both modern and ww2 that would enhance the look of DCS. there's 3 desert maps in dcs, yet no desert appropriate infantry models.

Us infantry got a machine gun,  yet red force infantry doesn't have that. But they have RPGs while us infantry doesn't have a similar weapon.

Getting some 3d modeler to add a bunch of new infantry models would be a good thing. 

[Dragon1-1]

It would be useful to have more diverse insurgent forces. They probably should be lumped into one faction, given that there's too many groups around the world (or even in Syria alone) to model separately. However, what they do have in common is that they have no real uniform (except for arm bands) and a loose command structure. The models we do have look OK for Caucasus and Afghanistan, but many of our maps are in Middle East. For this, some more Arab-looking models, with shemags and all would be of great help.

That said, Infantry in DCS is getting the short end of the stick overall. We need at least a machine gun, an RPG of some kind (US has SMAW for Marines and Carl Gustaf for the Army), and a sniper. This would help making more sensible looking squads. Ideally, the weapon would be detached from the model and done as a hardpoint, so you could take any sort of model and give it any infantry weapon in the sim. Insurgents in particular usually have an eclectic mix of weapons.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[Silver_Dragon]

35 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

You'll notice it if you are dropping off trops in a Huey.

Or is a content creator. DCS' biggest advertisement is the free publicity they get from big and small YouTube DCS content creators. That make cool videos. And the better and more realistic stuff looks the better for DCS it is.

Given all infantry uses the same AI, and there's no complex stuff around it. It would be relatively quick to add many new infantry units both modern and ww2 that would enhance the look of DCS. there's 3 desert maps in dcs, yet no desert appropriate infantry models.

Us infantry got a machine gun,  yet red force infantry doesn't have that. But they have RPGs while us infantry doesn't have a similar weapon.

Getting some 3d modeler to add a bunch of new infantry models would be a good thing. 

There is no point in building all that infantry today, if the modeling, animation, texturing and rigging are changing from some years ago... they will be models that you make now and in a short time you will have to make them from scratch, and without being able to access the SDK.

Let us remember, the 3D models of the LOMAC/FC infantry are about to become extinct. So what you have to do is think about planning in order for someone to have a 3rd party, not a MOD. You have to have a little perspective, and start thinking about the future, not the past. The same thing happens with vehicles and other assistance. If tomorrow ED makes a change that literally means having to remodel all the MODs? What do the creators do, do they still create old content?

Quote

 

Infantry Animations

Development Progress

We are pleased to inform you that work is progressing on a range of infantry animations. In the above animation, you can see a work-in-progress animation of a soldier climbing to a higher surface. The new control system will allow units to behave in a more complex and realistic manner.

It also requires the solution of applied problems, such as overcoming obstacles and improved path finding. In some cases, the unit can overcome a situation just by stepping over an obstacle. There are different types of such surfaces that can be up to 1 meter in difference.  The second animation option is for higher obstacles of 1.5 to 2 meters. In this case, the unit will have to climb up the obstacle and then jump off the other side.

 

 

Quote

Human Animations
Starting with new AH-64D pilots in 2022, this work will continue into 2023 to include new infantry and more pilots with more life-like models and animations. Priority pilot models first include the F/A-18C and F-16C pilots.

Quote

 

FLIR

Development Report

We have recently been developing infrared (IR) textures for ships, deck personnel, and more ground units. This required gathering and analysing various references. As a result, we created IR textures for units that correspond to engine locations, exhaust systems, electronic devices, and weapons. They will have the ability to noticeably heat up and cool down based on operation. Authentic IR maps have also been developed for the DCS: Supercarrier deck crew, where the thickness of clothing, equipment, masks, and human body heat are considered. Please stay tuned for more news on this subject soon.

 

 

 

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

You'll notice it if you are dropping off trops in a Huey.

I really don't. Or more to the point: it has not bothered me so far. It bothers me more that I can't see them whilst I ferry them over. But the 10 - 20 seconds that I am on the ground dropping off troops I spend scanning the tree-line some 100 yards away, not commenting on the troop's attire. I do see your point, though - it's just not something of priority for me; to me it does not break immersion when everyone looks alike. My Huey and Hip co-pilots don't look that hot either, and it never bothered me. YMMV

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Or is a content creator. DCS' biggest advertisement is the free publicity they get from big and small YouTube DCS content creators.

Perhaps. That's something that ED will have to figure out with their publicity department. My gaming experience is not contingent on the popularity of some youtube clip. A youtuber's  income might, and I understand when they lust for more eye candy (every time I see a lens flare I die a little inside - but that's just me ) to make their clicks and income go up. So 'skins' and 'liveries' are perhaps important to them, fair point. As someone who plays DCS to pass time, not generate clicks, to me infantry garb/skin/livery is a lower-tier priority. I've already burnt Karma over a similar issue with aircraft liveries, so I acknowledge that to some people, paint schemes are important.

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Us infantry got a machine gun,  yet red force infantry doesn't have that. But they have RPGs while us infantry doesn't have a similar weapon.

The models don't. But nothing is stopping you to add an RPG guy from the combined task force to your blue infantry. Or at least, nothing is stopping me from doing so in my missions. But I've already stated that  I can't tell them apart from a few steps away anyhow, so I guess that is to be expected. 

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

You'll notice it if you are dropping off trops in a Huey.

Or is a content creator. DCS' biggest advertisement is the free publicity they get from big and small YouTube DCS content creators. That make cool videos. And the better and more realistic stuff looks the better for DCS it is.

Given all infantry uses the same AI, and there's no complex stuff around it. It would be relatively quick to add many new infantry units both modern and ww2 that would enhance the look of DCS. there's 3 desert maps in dcs, yet no desert appropriate infantry models.

Us infantry got a machine gun,  yet red force infantry doesn't have that. But they have RPGs while us infantry doesn't have a similar weapon.

Getting some 3d modeler to add a bunch of new infantry models would be a good thing. 

The lack of small arms among other assets is one of the issues I have brought up. I am not too bothered by the lack of details however the lack of unit verity in terms of weapons would have a bigger affect on game play 

Edited December 9, 2023 by upyr1

[SkateZilla]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:54 AM, _Defi said:

@BIGNEWY @Gunfreak Ok. but I don't quite follow. Russia, USA, etc are also real world groups on a national level with their own flag, uniform etc. I was thinking to make a mission really realistic I would want some green bandana wearing Hamas soldiers on the syria map moving forward on foot, on motorbikes, with shoulder mounted ATGMs or converted Open Top Cars. In the end it's all about realism to me. 

 

The drama and political issues alone wouldn't be worth it, adding and naming specific groups only advertises for them, it's best practice to not name them at all, and just have a generalized "insurgents".

there's about an equal chance that ED integrates the Backstreet Boys and *NSYNC into the game.

[Iron Sights]

In the end this a sim/game. I don’t think we need to take things too far. Not to mention you can’t even find that in a game like Squad. At ten thousand feet they are all dots anyway.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

22 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

there's about an equal chance that ED integrates the Backstreet Boys and *NSYNC into the game.

What about Metallica, specifically the Master of Puppets era?

[cfrag]

6 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

What about Metallica

I don't think that could work. While Backstreet Boys and NSYNC are clearly terrorists to whom not even the Geneva conventions could apply, Metallica are a grey area, they have redeeming qualities.

[SkateZilla]

23 hours ago, cfrag said:

I don't think that could work. While Backstreet Boys and NSYNC are clearly terrorists to whom not even the Geneva conventions could apply, Metallica are a grey area, they have redeeming qualities.

Metallica's agent has strict control over anything related to the band, music, or name and logo use.

*NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys and a dozen other Boy/Girl Groups of the 90's/2000's have zero legal representation thanks to the Ponzi scheme portrayed by Lou Pearlman.

[Rodeo]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:48 AM, Insonia said:

You will find the same old same old topic in Bohemia, Squad, and many many other mil sim forums too. No developer will reply or agree with you on this point. they jsut avoid this topic. The best they can do is keep a blind eye on user-generated mods.

What a lot of other game companies try to do is change names, flags, places, and uniforms so they barely resemble what the original portrays. it's the safer approach.

 

You may find this ridiculous, hypocritical, and comical, but it is also an unfortunate truth about how this world works.

 

 

Ubisoft got official complaints from Bolivia for Ghost Recon:Wildlands for depicting Bolivia as a drug riddled country and a corrupt military.  Did make for one of the best games I've played in a long time  and the generic country they used for the follow up Ghost Recon:Breakpoint just wasn't the same.  

 

@_Defi just take the previous advise and use those faction names in your mission briefs.  If you are playing single-player and creating your own missions you can utilize @Eight Ball Insurgent Pack for variety.  Can be found in User_Files here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313068/

[cfrag]

10 hours ago, Rodeo said:

Ubisoft got official complaints from Bolivia for Ghost Recon:Wildlands

When Monty Python first published "Life of Brian" the movie was banned for blasphemy in Norway. They reacted with ads saying "So funny it's illegal in Norway". Not every studio or business, however, is willing to take on big, big entities like whole countries or organized religions, and they can live without the cost and hassle that can come with a targeted hate campaign. It's a lamentable fact of today's somewhat bizarre word of enforced public virtue signaling and moral posturing. 

That being said, DCS underlying mission environment currently isn't equipped to easily add more factions than the three that we have (0, 1 and 2, with "3" sometimes being "contested"). Adding some 3D models and painting them in some way should be possible, and I think that that is what most people are looking for. In the end, we need some infantry (and other) 'things' equipped with some specific weaponry to build our mock scenarios and make them more enjoyable to play. And this does not 'merely' include infantry - I'd like people with inflated life wests to rescue from water, I'd like to see a zodiac-type of boat or two, and (yes, I know), I'd like a camel to enhance the flavor of our "Dust" maps. So, here's hoping for a slowly expanding set of models for us to use in our mission building (hey, we got Orcas with South America!). 

Edited December 13, 2023 by cfrag

[Slippa]

47 minutes ago, cfrag said:

When Monty Python first published "Life of Brian" the movie was banned for blasphemy in Norway. They reacted with ads saying "So funny it's illegal in Norway".

He wasn’t the Messiah, he was a very naughty boy. You lucky, lucky…

50 minutes ago, cfrag said:

I'd like a camel to enhance the flavor of our "Dust" maps. 

Here you go :