no F-18 boring?

[SlipHavoc]

I'm always puzzled when people say the F-18 feels like it's "on rails" but don't level the same criticism at the F-16, which to me feels even more stable.  In my experience the F-18 is also significantly faster than the F-16 when carrying any kind of useful A/G load, and it can fly at higher altitudes.  The exception is when you light the afterburner, which in the F-16 is very powerful, but the F-18 has about twice as much time on afterburner just with internal fuel, and can carry more externally.

I personally much prefer the F-18 over the F-16, as I like being able to carry more A/G weapons, I have longer range, 3 MFDs, can fiy higher, have a better HMD, and it fits my dogfighting style very well (put the lift vector on the bandit and pull, which the F-18 is excellent at, while the F-16 requires more discipline in keeping your speed up).  But if it bores you there's nothing wrong with that, just find some other plane that you like more.  You aren't required to like the same planes that other people like, or for the same reasons.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Have you played with the Hornet's more unique traits?

Try yanking that nose around with FBW disconnected to get some ridiculous alpha. Try the Walleyes. Do some catshots and carrier landings.

Viper is a better fit if you want to go wicked fast at all times (I definitely fall into that camp), but the Hornet is the veritable trickster; it always seems to have a card up its sleeve for almost every scenario you can throw at it.

Edited December 14, 2023 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[oldcrusty]

Why do I keep flying the Hornet...  I guess I'm just a stubborn old goat. More ED stalls and drags their feet more I'd determined to stick to it. Creating my own band-aids and crutches and finding different ways to whack the bots (I stick to SP for now) :D

BTW, I did notice small improvements here and there in 2.9.  Taking gas from S3 at night for instance and being able to see their nav lights from a mile or so, Hornet's 'orbs' look quite a bit better, Paveway III behaves better too and few other things.

[davidrbarnette]

I'm not the biggest Hornet fan, but one thing it definitely has that makes it interesting is the sheer variety of weapons it can employ. LGBs, JDAMs, HARM, CBUs, JSOWs, SLAM, SLAM-ER. Harpoon, Maverick, rockets (including the big ZUNIs), gun, AIM-9, AIM-120, on and on.

It does all of that AND lands on the boat. You've got to admit that it is a very versatile aircraft. Additionally, it has almost unmatched performance at high angles of attack, making it the premier "knife fight in a phone booth" fighter. 

[evilnate]

Our online group keeps the fun alive in the hornet, and other airframes to boot. 

We do so by having a bunch of challenging scenarios where there are clear objectives, random threat environments, and no defined path (waypoints). Each time we roll one, we select a mate to be the “mission planner” to make the tactical calls. This  would involve how many of us are tasked with strike, tarcap, sead, etc. What direction of approach, sequence and timing etc. etc. 

After the mission is over, we share tacview replay on discord and try to find what went well and what didn’t.

We’ve been doing this 3X per week for years and it’s not getting old yet.

While we wait two more weeks for ED dynamic campaign, I recommend finding a group that you enjoy flying with to keep the romance going. 

[Joch1955]

yes, its boring, but in a good way, like a good friend that you can always depend on.

Been playing the F18 a lot lately, great for carrier ops, AG missions, AA missions, love the flexibly of setting up the screens how you want. Is it sexy, do I love flying it. No, its more like a good truck you use for work.

You want sexy, fly the M2000c or the Mirage F1. Love flying the M2000c, it's my fav ride for quick AA missions. No one does sexy like "les Français".

...but if I had to go to war and my life depended on it, it would be in the F18.

[Zimmerdylan]

"I think with many things in DCS you do have to make your own fun, if you are not having fun try something else, that is the beauty of DCS, its a sandbox for whatever you want to do."

 

      This statement pretty much sums up the way I look at DCS. 

[norman99]

Boring, the F-16 is boring! . 

It's literally a one trick pony. Go Fast! In any sort of realistic engagement, good situational awareness & tactics beats bad SA/tactics but 'Go Fast' every time.

Apart from SEAD with the HTS, there's nothing the Viper can do that the Hornet can't do better, and many things the Viper can't do at all. 

[Dangerzone]

I guess it makes sense that the FA18 is boring for some, in the same way that DCS is boring for others and they prefer to play an arcade flight game instead for their quick fix.

The FA18 is just a tool, an aircraft. It's what you do with it that will decide whether it's boring or not.  Join a server on a mission night, with a pre-flight briefing, human ATC/GCI, and other players, to do a carrier takeoff, formation flying to AAR, and then on to the IP to strike targets while dodging AAA, or other unknowns, followed by a flight home for each flight to trap back on the air carrier and those 2+hrs seem to fly by (excuse the pun), and it's anything but boring. 

In comparison look at Jane's Longbow 2. The map, the features, the graphics, the lack of full fidelity, etc pale into insignificance what we have now with the full fidelity cockpits, but I dare say more than a few virtual pilots here have spent a lot of time in years gone by and have fond memories of that game. It's more about what you do with the tools that you have than the tool itself at times. 

If it's boring, I'd say it's either more about your particular focus/goals, or that you're just not using what DCS and Multiplayer can give you to it's full advantage.  But if you have another plane that gives you far more satisfaction, that's fantastic. DCS is no longer "Black Shark" with one aircraft.

[max22]

16 hours ago, Peedee said:

Is it just me that find the F-18 a little bit "boring"?

Absolutely not boring but a fun jet fighter with a lot to offer

[Spirale]

17 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Try to fly one of Baltic's Raven One campaigns to the end and then come back and tell us that the Hornet is boring...

This

[Tusky]

Maybe your are just flying boring missions. Join an online squadron and and fly with other people...you'll soon find that no aircraft Is boring.

[Q3ark]

Try doing some night flights or bad weather stuff. Landing on the boat at night with high wind and rain with bad visibility after a successful sortie is far from boring.

[Peedee]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:49 PM, WinterH said:

Anyway, as for the thread's actual subject...

To each their own I guess. Personally I've always been Meh at best vs F-16, or indeed outright hostile towards it. I don't like its looks, I don't enjoy the way it flies, at all, but I'll agree it is a very capable and reasonable airframe indeed. But capability wise they are very similar with hornet, only difference is in the way sensors are operated by HOTAS, and many including myself find the way things implemented in F-16 to be janky. Guess it's the speed and acceleration in the Viper that you like then. But for me Viper is the very definition of boring interestingly

What?? Don´t like the way it looks? It´s so beautiful!  

Well so far I like everything about the Viper, not just the speed and acccleration. But then again, F16 sims is something I´ve been playing since the really first ones came out in the 80´s. Falcon (all of them), Digital Integrations F16 sim... I even tried the real one the Norwegian Airforce used in the beginning of the 2000´s  (just once for one hour though - still an incredible experience back then). So, it´s some "welcome home" feeling and nostalgia in there I gotta admit.  

[WinterH]

36 minutes ago, Peedee said:

What?? Don´t like the way it looks? It´s so beautiful!  

Well so far I like everything about the Viper, not just the speed and acccleration. But then again, F16 sims is something I´ve been playing since the really first ones came out in the 80´s. Falcon (all of them), Digital Integrations F16 sim... I even tried the real one the Norwegian Airforce used in the beginning of the 2000´s  (just once for one hour though - still an incredible experience back then). So, it´s some "welcome home" feeling and nostalgia in there I gotta admit.  

For me it's literally the most plain-jane a fighter can look, never really liked it, one of the reason I never really got too deeply into F-16 sims is that... they're F-16 sims, and back in the day ED effectively cancelling Belsimtek's F-4 for it was another huge nail in Meh-16's coffin for me, not to mention the way it released  And the way it is designed to fly, which it achieves successfully, isn't too exciting for me, feeling sanitized by FBW to the level of feeling sterile.

Now, let me qualify these being completely subjective things of course, and mostly for a simmer's entertainment point of view. F-16 was, and remains to be, one of the best bang-for-buck multirole fighters ever, and is the choice that makes sense for many countries, including mine. That doesn't mean I have to like the darn thing tho

[Crash *]

I would also like to add my two cents.
Interesting article, because it's revealing how differently people perceive things.

On the main topic:

I personally think the F-18 is well made and with its versatility and ability to land on a carrier, I think it is far from boring.

I didn't like the F-16 in the first place. However, I really wanted to use the CBU 97 and so I learned the F-16 somewhat reluctantly. And lo and behold, with increasing practice I really liked the Viper.

Nevertheless, I still love the AV8B Harrier II the most. It's relatively slow and has no active radar, but hey, I like the thing.

We should never make the mistake of lumping all the real machines together. Each variant has its time and history. Shaped by political circumstances and given budgets. Under the right circumstances, every machine is a lot of fun.

 

[freehand]

I love the hornet I have most the modules like others but always seem to back to the hornet so much to learn and you can chill out and have a cup of tea on the way to a mission.

Then there is the boat in different conditions a thunder storm in VR on the carrier is awesome.

When watching movers videos from in the cockpit real life the DCS FM in the hornet seems to be bang on money it may not be but does look right. 

I thought the F15 would be my go to module it may still be but in the middle of learning, also just bought the F1 mirage loving it at he minute not sure how long that will last lol.

We are very lucky to have so much choice no need for anyone to be bored. 

[Aluminum Donkey]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:57 PM, Dangerzone said:

DCS is no longer "Black Shark" with one aircraft.

Tell that to NVCP

AD

[Shimmergloom667]

The Hornet is not only the most gorgeous plane of all, it is also very well developed, it's systems are logical and easy to use and it's insanely capable in everything you need to do. In DCS it actually comes close to feeling like a one man air force.

While I played tons of Falcon 4 and BMS back in the day, I am *so glad* to got rid of the F-16 and it's ridiculously illogical and convoluted avionics. Everything is complicated in that thing, the tiny MFDs with their bad layouts and strange logical paths are just so off-putting once you had the chance to use the Hornet's. And don't get me started on it's weird use of SPI & CZ necessities.

I do like the A-10 because of the rule of cool, and while it's systems are a bit weird as well at leasts it's concept of SPI generation is way ahead of the Viper.

I personally also don't find that non-FBW planes have anything in offer in terms of "soul", that is just a non-issue to me. The need to constantly trim and watch out for peculiarities is not engaging to me, it is just tedious. We arrived at a modern age and I want to use modern tools. The whole "flying" part of things is "meh" to me, doesn't differ from a Cessna 172 a lot anyway. Systems management is what makes me interested in flight sims (which is why I also enjoy airliner sims a lot - programming an FMS is one of my favorite things to do), and the Hornet's systems are second to none in DCS, only the Mud Hen comes close (you can feel the manufacturer's genes here).

Edited December 20, 2023 by Shimmergloom667

[Hiob]

1 minute ago, Shimmergloom667 said:

The Hornet is not only the most gorgeous plane of all, <...>

Objection! That is in the eye of the beholder. The Hornet wouldn't even be in my top three.

[Shimmergloom667]

1 minute ago, Hiob said:

Objection! That is in the eye of the beholder. The Hornet wouldn't even be in my top three.

Just had to say it to reply to those weirdos who find the Lawn Dart visually appealing

All I can see:

Edited December 20, 2023 by Shimmergloom667

[oldcrusty]

11 hours ago, Aluminum Donkey said:

Tell that to NVCP

AD

Hehe, I'm all on 'global' now :/

[GurbY]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:09 AM, Shimmergloom667 said:

The Hornet is not only the most gorgeous plane of all, it is also very well developed, it's systems are logical and easy to use and it's insanely capable in everything you need to do. In DCS it actually comes close to feeling like a one man air force.

While I played tons of Falcon 4 and BMS back in the day, I am *so glad* to got rid of the F-16 and it's ridiculously illogical and convoluted avionics. Everything is complicated in that thing, the tiny MFDs with their bad layouts and strange logical paths are just so off-putting once you had the chance to use the Hornet's. And don't get me started on it's weird use of SPI & CZ necessities.

I do like the A-10 because of the rule of cool, and while it's systems are a bit weird as well at leasts it's concept of SPI generation is way ahead of the Viper.

I personally also don't find that non-FBW planes have anything in offer in terms of "soul", that is just a non-issue to me. The need to constantly trim and watch out for peculiarities is not engaging to me, it is just tedious. We arrived at a modern age and I want to use modern tools. The whole "flying" part of things is "meh" to me, doesn't differ from a Cessna 172 a lot anyway. Systems management is what makes me interested in flight sims (which is why I also enjoy airliner sims a lot - programming an FMS is one of my favorite things to do), and the Hornet's systems are second to none in DCS, only the Mud Hen comes close (you can feel the manufacturer's genes here).

 

A-10 weird systems....???? Man..... If I'm flying somewhere and get lost, I choose Func - Nav (2) on the UFC, choose Divert on the CDU and voila, a list of airbases is there... How much I love the F18 (still learning as we speak), it's not possible to make such an easy navigation move. On the other hand, target selection and engaging are a lot more logical on the f18 than in the hawg...

Edited December 23, 2023 by GurbY

[Mike_CK]

Well, I usually prefer playing 1980’s- early 90’s scenarios and servers; so no fox-3 (except Phoenix). I love the hornet because I can carry a decent A/G load AND aim-7s. I also much prefer air combat with just Fox ones and Fox-2s….watching that Sparrow come off the rails, with its smoke trail, and guide itself and is very satisfying. Can’t do that with the F-16; sidewinders only.

So, the F-18s really the only aircraft that I can do both air to ground and air to air in during that time frame. 

I should say that I love the Mirage 2000 as well, but it only carries four missles and only two are Fox ones, so it only allows for a limited time in combat; although there isn’t a better (or more fun) platform to dogfight in.

[Shimmergloom667]

17 hours ago, GurbY said:

A-10 weird systems....???? Man..... If I'm flying somewhere and get lost, I choose Func - Nav (2) on the UFC, choose Divert on the CDU and voila, a list of airbases is there... How much I love the F18 (still learning as we speak), it's not possible to make such an easy navigation move. On the other hand, target selection and engaging are a lot more logical on the f18 than in the hawg...

 

How can you get lost in either?