Why does editing your counter measures programs via CMDS_ALE47.lua break integrity check now?

[rfxcasey]

Why does editing your counter measures programs via CMDS_ALE47.lua break integrity check now?  Never used to. Since DCS doesn't have a DTC why force people to edit their CMS programs manually every time they hop in a new jet? What is the point of that?

Edited January 26, 2024 by rfxcasey

[_UnknownCheater_]

4 hours ago, rfxcasey said:

Why does editing your counter measures programs via CMDS_ALE47.lua break integrity check now?  Never used to. Since DCS doesn't have a DTC why force people to edit their CMS programs manually every time they hop in a new jet? What is the point of that?

 

bcz ed don't care player's feel,only wanna what him wanna do.as ed said,they push this issue beween ed/players to server administrators/players.now the reason is server admini not allow 3rd party scripts,not ed not allow.so hope there is a second simulator,don't let ed become a monopoly

Edited January 26, 2024 by _UnknownCheater_

[Rudel_chw]

35 minutes ago, _UnknownCheater_ said:

bcz ed don't care player's feel

 … and the fact that some players enjoy cheating has nothing to do?

[_UnknownCheater_]

Just now, Rudel_chw said:

 … and the fact that some players enjoy cheating has nothing to do?

so they block all.They block all scripts and no dtc settings like jf17.now the question is server admin allow or not.

Edited January 26, 2024 by _UnknownCheater_

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, _UnknownCheater_ said:

so they block all.

thanks to the cheaters 

[buceador]

Changing the counter measures is very quick to do, setting up the jet for A2G ordnance, RWR power up, lighting controls, we perform lots of tasks when we start up, it's not much of an issue, it adds to the immersion and it will all be more streamlined with the advent of the data cartridge.

(I would respond to _UnknownCheater_ but I don't really understand what he/she is saying...)

[BIGNEWY]

2 hours ago, _UnknownCheater_ said:

bcz ed don't care player's feel,only wanna what him wanna do.as ed said,they push this issue beween ed/players to server administrators/players.now the reason is server admini not allow 3rd party scripts,not ed not allow.so hope there is a second simulator,don't let ed become a monopoly

 

Really silly thing to say, of course we care, but we also have to provide servers with the ability to prevent cheaters, sadly some people feel the need to cheat and fake their skill and ruin it for others. 
Servers can decide what level of integrity check to use, if they wish to allow edits or scripts they can.

As for the "monopoly" there is a reason for that, it is difficult to do what we do, and we have continued for many years where others have failed. 

We may in the future look to make it easier for people who export for genuine reason using scripts when the server is using pure scripts, but I have no time line for it. 

thanks

[Nealius]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

and the fact that some players enjoy cheating has nothing to do?

I question how setting CMS programs can be considered cheating. When we eventually get a DTC function, how is that in anyway different than manually editing the CMS lua other than having a UI?

[Rudel_chw]

32 minutes ago, Nealius said:

I question how setting CMS programs can be considered cheating

Sorry, but I won’t provide a tutorial on how to cheat 

[Blackfyre]

33 minutes ago, Nealius said:

I question how setting CMS programs can be considered cheating. When we eventually get a DTC function, how is that in anyway different than manually editing the CMS lua other than having a UI?

Setting CMS programs isn't cheating, but letting doing so by editing executable file may be used in a malicious way.

[BIGNEWY]

35 minutes ago, Nealius said:

I question how setting CMS programs can be considered cheating. When we eventually get a DTC function, how is that in anyway different than manually editing the CMS lua other than having a UI?

Its not that it can be edited for setting up CMS programs, it is that the process can also be used by some for other cheats which I wont discuss here. 

[buceador]

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

I question how setting CMS programs can be considered cheating. When we eventually get a DTC function, how is that in anyway different than manually editing the CMS lua other than having a UI?

Nobody is saying that it is cheating, they are saying that if you allow non-pure scripts the sim is open to cheating, it isn't that particular script that is in question but servers either allow ALL impure scripts or none.

[rfxcasey]

2 hours ago, buceador said:

Nobody is saying that it is cheating, they are saying that if you allow non-pure scripts the sim is open to cheating, it isn't that particular script that is in question but servers either allow ALL impure scripts or none.

Understood, but it'd be nice if there was an exception for the  entries in the .lua specifying the number of chaff/flare for each program, or at least the manual ones. Surely a small piece of code to allow for the changing of only these values wouldn't be too much of a bother, allow only a 1 or 2 decimal digit number to be between 0 and 9 at the end of the relevant lines while not considering the file "modified". I'm speaking of the Hornet in particular but surely there are other modules that should be included.

Edited January 26, 2024 by rfxcasey

[draconus]

All can be programmed but why?

You have options:

1. Go the servers that allow your modded files.

2. Play with what you have in DCS and make changes during your time in the cockpit.

3. Wait for DTC feature implementation.

[silverdevil]

On 1/26/2024 at 1:26 AM, _UnknownCheater_ said:

_UnknownCheater_

name checks out

[Japo32]

I think a datacard to change those parameters and others needs to be implemented in DCS. The JF17 has the option to set your programs in special options I think since begining. Hope we can see something similar or better for the rest of planes. As said, not only with CMD, but choosen MFDs configurations, Lines-circles of threads etc...

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I haven’t played online in a while, but a few years ago at least even texture “mods” (such as terrain textures and new trees which I both use for the Caucasus map) were blocked.

I understand and support the need to combat cheaters but hopefully some day a bit more modularity to the Integrity Check will be possible…

[killjoy73au]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:42 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Really silly thing to say, of course we care, but we also have to provide servers with the ability to prevent cheaters, sadly some people feel the need to cheat and fake their skill and ruin it for others. 
Servers can decide what level of integrity check to use, if they wish to allow edits or scripts they can.

As for the "monopoly" there is a reason for that, it is difficult to do what we do, and we have continued for many years where others have failed. 

We may in the future look to make it easier for people who export for genuine reason using scripts when the server is using pure scripts, but I have no time line for it. 

thanks

So instead of giving us an option to change CMS programs that will pass IC... You've just taken away the option entirely and told us to just wait until you get around to adding a feature that should've been available for every module on their release? How do you go backwards like this and still take peoples money?

On 1/26/2024 at 6:52 PM, buceador said:

Changing the counter measures is very quick to do, setting up the jet for A2G ordnance, RWR power up, lighting controls, we perform lots of tasks when we start up, it's not much of an issue, it adds to the immersion and it will all be more streamlined with the advent of the data cartridge.

(I would respond to _UnknownCheater_ but I don't really understand what he/she is saying...)

They've had years to add the data cartridge features though, don't defend laziness when it costs $130 (AUD) for a module.

Edited February 10, 2024 by killjoy73au

[Raisuli]

On 1/26/2024 at 2:38 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Its not that it can be edited for setting up CMS programs, it is that the process can also be used by some for other cheats which I wont discuss here. 

So...really dumb question.  Is the problem the file for CM programs (CMDS_ALE47.lua in the case of the F-18) or is it a group of .luas, or is it all .luas?  Exporting the RWR does much the same thing with IC, but adding control bindings does not (I think?  Did that change?).

The point being is it a wishlist item to sort exploitable vs 'safe' config files or is that a bit like ordering a sub-safe screen door?

Yeah.  The latter has been done, but it was messy.

[buceador]

6 hours ago, killjoy73au said:

They've had years to add the data cartridge features though, don't defend laziness when it costs $130 (AUD) for a module.

And if this feature was the ONLY pressing feature on their to-do list the I would agree with you but clearly it is not.

Describing the lack of implementation of this feature 'laziness' is, at best, childish.

[killjoy73au]

56 minutes ago, buceador said:

And if this feature was the ONLY pressing feature on their to-do list the I would agree with you but clearly it is not.

Describing the lack of implementation of this feature 'laziness' is, at best, childish.

Imagine defending the company that takes your money and decides to spend time and effort to remove an important feature instead of just implementing it properly after the better part of a decade... pander a bit harder why don't you mate.

[buceador]

2 minutes ago, killjoy73au said:

pander a bit harder why don't you mate.

Ouch!  You hurt my feelings 
 

 

3 minutes ago, killjoy73au said:

Imagine defending the company that takes your money

They didn't take your money, you GAVE it to them!   

[killjoy73au]

Just now, buceador said:

Ouch!  You hurt my feelings 
 

 

They didn't take your money, you GAVE it to them!   

That's exactly my point...

[draconus]

On 2/10/2024 at 9:49 AM, killjoy73au said:

Imagine defending the company that takes your money and decides to spend time and effort to remove an important feature instead of just implementing it properly after the better part of a decade...

I imagine security is more important than a "feature" to allow some modded files on secured servers.

You have the option to go to the servers (or create one yourself) that allow your modded files.

You still have CMS settings available in the cockpit of your module.

[killjoy73au]

13 hours ago, draconus said:

I imagine security is more important than a "feature" to allow some modded files on secured servers.

You have the option to go to the servers (or create one yourself) that allow your modded files.

You still have CMS settings available in the cockpit of your module.

What do you mean 'Feature' as it's some kind of thing we should be grateful for... it's an integral part of the module, it's not on me, a paying customer for an expensive module such as the F-16, to make my own server, or find a server that allows modded files or rely on the default settings that you can't alter in the cockpit.

You've missed the point completely about ED having years to implement the data cartridge feature and spending time and effort actually limiting a modules capabilities while providing no interim alternative.

People like you who make excuses for a company are part of the problem as to why things like this happen and basic bugs and issues never get fixed.