1.1 Copy Protection Update

[Dmut]

Hello,

 

Yes, I can read Russian. I've checked the link, this vulnerability was fixed long time ago. You can find details here: http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?id=606&type=5&add=1&category=200

The link is also present in the thread mentioned by you.

unfortunately, I still able to reproduce this issue with well-known "starforcemeat" exploit with new version of SF dated 2005,Feb.

my drivers versions:

sfdrv01.sys 1.27

prodrv06.sys 6.51

sfhlp01.sys 1.5

sfhlp02.sys 2.1

prohlp02.sys 2.51

sfsync02.sys 2.6

prosync1.sys 1.6

 

edit:

prodrv06.sys 6.51 -> 6.52

prohlp02.sys 2.51 -> 2.52

[spearsd]

:shock: You're joking, right? *hitting the submit button before rethinking it*

 

Hello,

 

Yes, I can read Russian. I've checked the link, this vulnerability was fixed long time ago. You can find details here: http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?id=606&type=5&add=1&category=200

The link is also present in the thread mentioned by you.

unfortunately, I still able to reproduce this issue with well-known "starforcemeat" exploit with new version of SF dated 2005,Feb.

my drivers versions:

sfdrv01.sys 1.27

prodrv06.sys 6.51

sfhlp01.sys 1.5

sfhlp02.sys 2.1

prohlp02.sys 2.51

sfsync02.sys 2.6

prosync1.sys 1.6

 

edit:

prodrv06.sys 6.51 -> 6.52

prohlp02.sys 2.51 -> 2.52

[Dmut]

:shock: You're joking, right? *hitting the submit button before rethinking it*

spearsd, it's a technical discussion. do you have something to say?

[coldcrew]

What happens after we have reached 5 hardware changes limit ? We have to buy the game again or do we have to give some proof that we are original buyers.

It's not the question to us. We provide publishers with flexible activation system. It's up to them to set as many activations per serial number as they want to. In addition, it's also their decision what to do with the users which reached the limit.

 

And this still remains the only question that remains to be answered. From what you said does this mean that if the activation limit was reached the only way would be to get a new serial (if ED allowed this option?). Because from what you are saying once the starforce protection system hits the limit then you'll need a new key and it's up to ED to give out one or not. Is that correct?

[Dmut]

From what you said does this mean that if the activation limit was reached the only way would be to get a new serial (if ED allowed this option?). Because from what you are saying once the starforce protection system hits the limit then you'll need a new key and it's up to ED to give out one or not. Is that correct?

Hello coldcrew. I'm not the one who you asking, but I can say that you are correct with your sentence above.

[Guest ruggbutt]

 

From StarForce

 

In this improbable case, I think it would be possible to release the patch with other protection system or unprotected version.

 

In that case would Starforce actually spend money to patch a game that they weren't being paid for anymore?

 

Also, I'm curious about the activations. I see this sim as one that will last quite a long time. If for some reason we have to pay more money to activate it more than 5 times I'd have to rethink doing business w/ED.

[Nate--IRL--]

 

From StarForce

 

In this improbable case, I think it would be possible to release the patch with other protection system or unprotected version.

 

In that case would Starforce actually spend money to patch a game that they weren't being paid for anymore?

 

Also, I'm curious about the activations. I see this sim as one that will last quite a long time. If for some reason we have to pay more money to activate it more than 5 times I'd have to rethink doing business w/ED.

 

 

ED would be the people to patch the game, if Starforce goes kaput.

 

And as for you other question again this is up to ED. Starforce seems to be very flexible in how a developer operates it.

 

So that last remaining question is................

 

What happens after all the reactivations are used ED?

 

Nate

[Revvin]

In that case would Starforce actually spend money to patch a game that they weren't being paid for anymore?

 

Also, I'm curious about the activations. I see this sim as one that will last quite a long time. If for some reason we have to pay more money to activate it more than 5 times I'd have to rethink doing business w/ED.

 

I would imagine if ED went through the hoop Starforce would not have a contract to keep so could set the protection on their servers to allow all licenses requests to pass through un-challenged? If Starforce went through the hoop ED could either use a different copy protection or just release a patch to take out the copy protection.

 

It seems the only question left is what happens after 5 activations? so what happens ED?

[W-Natas]

Yeah... what happens ED?

[Wags]

Please have patience. Eagle is reviewing the options and will let us know as soon as they've made a decision.

 

Bear in mind that Eagle is doing this all on their own for the first time, no publisher taking care of such matters. While in the end I believe this will benefit Eagle and the genre as a whole, there will be some bumps and false starts at first.

 

Bests,

Matt

 

 

Yeah... what happens ED?

[spearsd]

DMUT,

It appears this thread named "1.1 Copy Protection Update" HAS transformed from a simple informational announcement into technical / public relations *discussion*. Sorry to interject my previous comment; I'd like nothing better than to see the copy protection implemented in a secure, and practical way. I was just VERY shocked at your findings about the security vulnerability in contrast to statements made by StarForce earlier in the thread. I'll Look forward to reading the progress of this thread, and thank you for your hard work :wink:

 

 

:shock: You're joking, right? *hitting the submit button before rethinking it*

spearsd, it's a technical discussion. do you have something to say?

[Guest Dlink]

Please have patience. Eagle is reviewing the options and will let us know as soon as they've made a decision.

 

Bear in mind that Eagle is doing this all on their own for the first time, no publisher taking care of such matters. While in the end I believe this will benefit Eagle and the genre as a whole, there will be some bumps and false starts at first.

 

Bests,

Matt

 

 

Yeah... what happens ED?

 

While I have no doubt it will benefit ED, I highly doubt that instantly translates to benefitting the genre by putting in an intrusive copy protection scheme that possibly relies on 2 different companies staying in business and in touch. So far ED has been rather lax with info.

 

Like my Dad always said "Never judge a company by how they treat you when they are looking to get your money, but how they treat you after they already have it". IN this case, they don't have our money yet and they haven't been very forthcoming with info and explanations. How are they going to be 6 months down the road if problems start to crop up.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Like my Dad always said "Never judge a company by how they treat you when they are looking to get your money, but how they treat you after they already have it".

 

Your dad is right! And ED showed us in the past that they do respect us, their customers! Patches are released for original Lock On. Patches are released even for FC demo! ED pulled back to rethink copy protection because the customers voiced their concerns.

 

So, yes, eagle Dynamics is doing their best to treat us with respect! And I indeed appreciate that!

[schimmel]

Your dad is right! And ED showed us in the past that they do respect us, their customers! Patches are released for original Lock On. Patches are released even for FC demo! ED pulled back to rethink copy protection because the customers voiced their concerns.

 

So, yes, eagle Dynamics is doing their best to treat us with respect! And I indeed appreciate that!

 

The only "rethink" I see, is that we got a demo without StarForce. IMO they didn't change the CP plan of the release version.

 

Now where are the patches for 1.02? Where are the bugfixes? You have to buy the addon for bugfixes.

 

This is alright with me, but imagine the situation of a new addon or even a new game. Imagine the support of FC at that time. Imagine the support they are going to put into the registration process if you come along after a few years, unwilling to buy their newest product.

 

Sorry, I'm sceptical. This is in no way a proof, I know. I just have a bad feeling about all of this. I do respect ED, but I don't trust a business company, except if it's written down somewhere.

[KILSEK]

Hi all.

 

I went back to around the time this discussion about CP began, page six Thurs Feb. 24th, to be exact.

Is this discussion delaying the release? Am I wrong in thinking that if, 18 days ago, ED would have have said this is what we are doing and followed through with this decision, that F.C. would be out by now? Is this delaying the enevitable? We do not get a say in alot of the programming that is in LOMAC, and I do not understand why this is any different. This is a business decision and should not have been a topic for debate, especially if it causing a delay in the release.

 

ED has my full support, they have not &&&&&& me over yet and I do not believe they are intentionally going to &&&& over the "niche" fanbase that they do have. Once they give the go ahead to CP, how long then before release? Another week, 2? Thanks, -KILSEK

[Zero G]

I still have questions about possible software that starforce will disable or mess with on my system. As I understand it this is a feature of these drivers.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Now where are the patches for 1.02? Where are the bugfixes? You have to buy the addon for bugfixes.

 

Where are the patches for Norton Security? Where are the patches for Microsoft Internet Explorer? Where is the fix for my Ford Focus hood oppening handle? Where is the fix for the imperfection of the collors on my 32" Sharp TV? Why do I have to wait on the red light when there are no other cars on crossing lanes? Where is the "patch" to fix that?

 

Well, my friend, I work for the company that manufactures very complex machinery, including a network of industrial strength computers. Our product also has problems and is not perfect.

 

As a matter of fact, there is no perfect product out there!

 

When it comes to software products, specialy combat flight simulators, we ask for perfection unmatched in any other PC gaming software. Why?

 

Because we are special bunch! I do believe we are among the best and most mature (old as well :wink: ) PC game players in bussines.

 

While we need to continue striving towards perfection, one need to understend the limits.

 

Bottom line is, ask yourself a question:

 

"What can I do to make Lock on a better game?"

 

And work in direction of making a Lok On better game!

 

Regards,

[DayGlow]

Your dad is right! And ED showed us in the past that they do respect us, their customers! Patches are released for original Lock On. Patches are released even for FC demo! ED pulled back to rethink copy protection because the customers voiced their concerns.

 

So, yes, eagle Dynamics is doing their best to treat us with respect! And I indeed appreciate that!

 

The only "rethink" I see, is that we got a demo without StarForce. IMO they didn't change the CP plan of the release version.

 

Now where are the patches for 1.02? Where are the bugfixes? You have to buy the addon for bugfixes.

 

This is alright with me, but imagine the situation of a new addon or even a new game. Imagine the support of FC at that time. Imagine the support they are going to put into the registration process if you come along after a few years, unwilling to buy their newest product.

 

Sorry, I'm sceptical. This is in no way a proof, I know. I just have a bad feeling about all of this. I do respect ED, but I don't trust a business company, except if it's written down somewhere.

 

ED has been in business long before LOMAC. You want to know how they treat their customers? Flanker 2.5 was released for free, adding many new fixes plus the SU-33 and Mig-29. It was to be a pay addon, but was 86'd before it came out. Instead of scrapping it, they released it free of charge. I say they support their products after they have your money.

________

CR125M

Edited January 22, 2011 by DayGlow

[Witchking]

@ schimmel

 

probably u haven;t been in the scene since FLanker 1 aka SU 27 FLanker .....flanker commander, flanker 2, 2.03, 2.5 ....... .

 

Trust ED dude....we are some old fans who have lingered with this company and their efforts for quite a while...even I came in since FLanker 2. I have seem ED as the only company WHO CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY REQUESTS soo much....I have been in communities of games whose developers raised their shop and stopped support....aka Grand Prix 4. Atleast ED were thoughtful enough to let the community enjoy 2.5 addon for flanker 2. I salute them for that.

 

would ANY company ever do that...none that I heard of !! :wink:

[Dmut]

DMUT,

It appears this thread named "1.1 Copy Protection Update" HAS transformed from a simple informational announcement into technical / public relations *discussion*. Sorry to interject my previous comment; I'd like nothing better than to see the copy protection implemented in a secure, and practical way. I was just VERY shocked at your findings about the security vulnerability in contrast to statements made by StarForce earlier in the thread. I'll Look forward to reading the progress of this thread, and thank you for your hard work :wink:

np, spearsd.

sorry, if I sounded rude. I only trying to keep this "technical discussion" more "technical" then "discussion"

[Orao]

The only "rethink" I see, is that we got a demo without StarForce. IMO they didn't change the CP plan of the release version.

 

Now where are the patches for 1.02? Where are the bugfixes? You have to buy the addon for bugfixes.

 

This is alright with me, but imagine the situation of a new addon or even a new game. Imagine the support of FC at that time. Imagine the support they are going to put into the registration process if you come along after a few years, unwilling to buy their newest product.

 

Sorry, I'm sceptical. This is in no way a proof, I know. I just have a bad feeling about all of this. I do respect ED, but I don't trust a business company, except if it's written down somewhere.

 

My 2cts on this.

 

What do you think about Il-2 FB series. Mr Olleg is asking the community to developp 3d models and then sels them as add-on. This is not a case with ED. I have all IL-2 series and Lockon bought legally, as far as I'm concerned the only thing I worry about FC is what will happen after limit of activation is reached ???

 

Cheers.

[schimmel]

No I haven't been around since Flanker and a lot of potential customers neither I think.

 

So, when they see this activation thing, they will hesitate, as I am now. It's important to have such positive comments on ED now.

[Guest Dlink]

Like my Dad always said "Never judge a company by how they treat you when they are looking to get your money, but how they treat you after they already have it".

 

Your dad is right! And ED showed us in the past that they do respect us, their customers! Patches are released for original Lock On. Patches are released even for FC demo! ED pulled back to rethink copy protection because the customers voiced their concerns.

 

So, yes, eagle Dynamics is doing their best to treat us with respect! And I indeed appreciate that!

 

Yes, they have done an awesome job with patches.

 

Yes, they pulled back to re-think the copy protection scheme, but now it appears that they are going ahead with this intrusive copy protection scheme anyway. The end result is the same even if the path to get their is different.

 

BTW, since 1.02 has a few bugs and some that are downright annoying , are we going to get bug fixes for 1.02 or are we going to have to buy them (via 1.1).

[Guest Dlink]

Now where are the patches for 1.02? Where are the bugfixes? You have to buy the addon for bugfixes.

 

Where are the patches for Norton Security? Where are the patches for Microsoft Internet Explorer? Where is the fix for my Ford Focus hood oppening handle? Where is the fix for the imperfection of the collors on my 32" Sharp TV? Why do I have to wait on the red light when there are no other cars on crossing lanes? Where is the "patch" to fix that?

 

Well, my friend, I work for the company that manufactures very complex machinery, including a network of industrial strength computers. Our product also has problems and is not perfect.

 

As a matter of fact, there is no perfect product out there!

 

When it comes to software products, specialy combat flight simulators, we ask for perfection unmatched in any other PC gaming software. Why?

 

Because we are special bunch! I do believe we are among the best and most mature (old as well :wink: ) PC game players in bussines.

 

While we need to continue striving towards perfection, one need to understend the limits.

 

Bottom line is, ask yourself a question:

 

"What can I do to make Lock on a better game?"

 

And work in direction of making a Lok On better game!

 

Regards,

 

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-common-practice.html

 

Wow, so first you say that since everyone is doing it, that makes it right. Then you go on to say that it is OUR responsibility to fix Lomac.

 

BTW, I 100% disagree that we as flight simmers are any better than anyone else, I also don't agree that we ask for perfection anymore than any other genre. I have always believed that this attitude is being used against us by those in our own genre.

[bflagg]

ED hasn't really answered my questions concerning starforce and ED policies.

 

My question had to do with images, and Wags response to it was very general and I have to surmise what it going to happen.

 

I can only gather by this response that a unique code is created when first installing this software and is kept on the StarForce servers.

I'm somewhat ok with this, but am still reserved on this issue.

(ie..what happens when I'm not playing lockon, is it still running on my PC?)

 

So 5 installs are possible and that's it? I've had Falcon4 (amongst many) since it first came out and I've installed it multiple times on different hardware through out the years, and not once did I have to say...

"please, may I install this game, to which I've already paid my license for?"

 

What happens with this product 5 years from now? It's quite probable that I won't be playing this version then, but I do NOT believe that ED should

limit the amount of times I can install this program thu the years.

What happens when ED folds? (god forbid) or is bought out?

 

Very concerned in PA, USA.