CH-47F Pre-purchase

[MAXsenna]

Pre-order is also a way to 'vote with the wallet' on core development. Pour some coal on the machine, so that it may churn out more of the goodness in the coming months and years. BTRs that don't outdo ZSU's in air defence for example.

I quite like this outlook!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Jacknemo]

Sorry, but with the continuing F-4 fiasco, there will be no more DCS pre-orders for me.  I'll wait till it's released and pay full price.

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Jacknemo said:

Sorry, but with the continuing F-4 fiasco, there will be no more DCS pre-orders for me.  I'll wait till it's released and pay full price.

oh yes.... HB surely has none to do on them....

[MAXsenna]

Sorry, but with the continuing F-4 fiasco, there will be no more DCS pre-orders for me.  I'll wait till it's released and pay full price.

That's your prerogative and a wise choice for you.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

oh yes.... HB surely has none to do on them....

He knows, and not what he implied.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[TonyRS]

5 hours ago, T.Power said:

….but you're "entitled" to your own opinion which is clearly tainted if you feel the need to use 3 exclamation marks.

My view is ‘tainted’ because I had the sheer audacity to use three exclamation marks!!!
How utterly ridiculous!!!

[javelina1]

2 hours ago, TonyRS said:

My view is ‘tainted’ because I had the sheer audacity to use three exclamation marks!!!
How utterly ridiculous!!!

I once used a double "??", (and got torpedoed).    And I still use a double space after a period.  (sorry, my typing teacher was a drill sergeant). 

I know at one point I'll get the 'hook...   as to when, pending.   I have two other thingy's awaiting their release.  I can't do a third....

Edited April 21 by javelina1

[Beirut]

8 hours ago, XCNuse said:

So now they're trying to sell yet another helicopter, except, it has no offensive weapons, . . . 

 

Yeah, but it's going to be a riot to fly. 

[Hotdognz]

Quick question as I'm unsure, does anyone know if any of the DCS helos can do logistics in the mission editor using just EDs work, does ED have that function in the core game now. ?  Does the mission need to use 3rd party scripts to get helos to do logistics ??.

If it needs 3rd party scripting to get logistics in any mission SP/MP, if ED does not include a new logistics model in the feature list for the Chinook pre order then all they are really selling is a flying module with nothing it can do really.

Im really looking forward to seeing whats going to be included in EA

Edited April 21 by Hotdognz

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

6 hours ago, TonyRS said:

My view is ‘tainted’ because I had the sheer audacity to use three exclamation marks!!!
How utterly ridiculous!!!

Oh yeah? Well, I'm going to use 4!!!!.
I win.

[TonyRS]

38 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Oh yeah? Well, I'm going to use 4!!!!.
I win.

I concede defeat to the better man. I never thought to be so extreme as to use FOUR exclamations. I feel humbled sir!

[Gunfreak]

Rally don't get the "no boom boom is boring "

I recommend people read books by Huey pilots in Vietnam. What they did was at least as skillful and daring as any fighter pilot (maybe even more so)  Same goes for Chinnock pilots.

 

[Braunn]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Rally don't get the "no boom boom is boring "

I recommend people read books by Huey pilots in Vietnam. What they did was at least as skillful and daring as any fighter pilot (maybe even more so)  Same goes for Chinnock pilots.

 

Got any recommendations for books? 

As others have stated though, I am also getting tired/sour of the pre purchase stuff. Did it once with the F-15E and it still doesn't have a datalink among other things. Never again. Well I did it with SA map too but that's like 10 minutes of flying it and it grew old. 

Just drop a well enough functioning module/map, with a short enough roadmap, and people will buy.  

[Gunfreak]

9 minutes ago, Braunn said:

Got any recommendations for books? 

As others have stated though, I am also getting tired/sour of the pre purchase stuff. Did it once with the F-15E and it still doesn't have a datalink among other things. Never again. Well I did it with SA map too but that's like 10 minutes of flying it and it grew old. 

Just drop a well enough functioning module/map, with a short enough roadmap, and people will buy.  

This one. Of all the dozens upon dozens aviation books I've read/listened too. No other book has impressed me more in pure fly skill.

https://www.amazon.com/Limit-Air-Huey-Pilot-Vietnam/dp/0451222180

And this one is excellent, very good self-deprecating humour.

https://www.amazon.com/This-Minuteman-Two-Three-Helicopter-Afghanistan/dp/1946875511

 

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Rally don't get the "no boom boom is boring "

I recommend people read books by Huey pilots in Vietnam. What they did was at least as skillful and daring as any fighter pilot (maybe even more so)  Same goes for Chinnock pilots.

 

 

Exactly. This is a flightsim first and foremost, I'd say 50% of my flight time is just for the fun of flying. No "Kaboom!" And the Chinook is going to be a blast to fly. 

 

As far as Huey books go, "Chickenhawk". 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

Exactly. This is a flightsim first and foremost, I'd say 50% of my flight time is just for the fun of flying. No "Kaboom!" And the Chinook is going to be a blast to fly. 

 

As far as Huey books go, "Chickenhawk". 

Considering how fast Chinooks can haul, yeah, it'll be fun.

[ngreenaway]

3 hours ago, Braunn said:

Got any recommendations for books? 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Pachyderm-Rat-Flying-Boys-Vietnam/dp/1539949788

The Pachyderm and the Rat was written by a Chinook pilot in Vietnam 

[XCNuse]

14 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

Quick question as I'm unsure, does anyone know if any of the DCS helos can do logistics in the mission editor using just EDs work, does ED have that function in the core game now. ?  Does the mission need to use 3rd party scripts to get helos to do logistics ??.

If it needs 3rd party scripting to get logistics in any mission SP/MP, if ED does not include a new logistics model in the feature list for the Chinook pre order then all they are really selling is a flying module with nothing it can do really.

Im really looking forward to seeing whats going to be included in EA

 

No, DCS offers no logistics short of an ETA model on shipment of weapons from one warehouse to another that you control by a speed setting in the ME.

Helos can pick up and move a handful of objects via sling, but that's not really logistics, as it isn't inventory, it's just an object with a weight set in the ME (yes, you can make the slingable objects whatever weight you want; just be sure to check it when using them, as by default... they're insanely overweight).

 

CTLD, a script from the community, is the only thing that makes this helo serve a purpose [as of, and up to, Spring 2024].

 

9 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Rally don't get the "no boom boom is boring "

 

For the record; I'm not against it; I'm a fan of the Yak ... I wish I had a reason to fly it more (I wish it would be ... finished. It's literally the "most simple" module in the entire game, and despite being 6 years old now, is still Early Access.) Meanwhile, the CEii from Magnitude/Leather/whoever you want to call them, is also in EA nightmare with bugs left and right...
I want to enjoy these modules; and I was massively looking forward to the A-29, but it seems that's no longer happening.

The issue is DCS and ED and their third parties' ability to finish these modules; it doesn't seem anything is giving them a reason to actually "complete" them.

 

The no-boom is boring in the case of the CH47 is that as it stands; DCS is offering a serious "war machine," but it's incapable of doing ... what it's capable of doing.

Meanwhile they're talking about it being able to A2A refuel; and not a single picture shown off shows one with a refuel probe. About it being crewed by several people; and yet not a single mention of it being multicrew. The tease two years ago was a different model entirely. The tease video shows mods; and not even their own content, to make things even more confusing for the public.

 

I'd love for this module to be what it should be in DCS; but, ED has yet to show us any of that.

And yes, trust me, I love helos as much as the next person, and absolutely will buy the Kiowa; but only for two reasons: 1. It won't be EA. 2. It can serve a function in DCS outside of free roaming.

Neat cockpit in this thing; but.. last neat cockpit from ED was the A10Cii, and it took 4 years for them to make a radio for that thing..... just saying.

 

Is it likely to be better flight wise than any other version in other flight sims? Yes... most likely. But there's also no mention of normal things to expect in DCS; no mention of multicrew, no mention of what the FMS will even be capable of; since we're all well aware DCS has zero navaids; and a broken ILS system still at that.

If, for you the reader, this is to "replace" a CH47 in other flight sims (or in place of said CH47s in other sims as you waited out for this one), just because it's near and dear to your heart though... I'm all for it; I can't wait to hear it flying around... because it is a wicked machine.

But as far as DCS' ecosystem goes.... be extremely careful of where you're setting your expectations.

[Braunn]

And let me tell ya, flying helicopters cannot be boring. Don't know about the CH47 but our beloved Huey (that ED seems to have completely forgotten about) is a handful at times and is harder to control than any AAR in a fixed wing. 

There. I said it. 

[Gunfreak]

17 minutes ago, XCNuse said:

No, DCS offers no logistics short of an ETA model on shipment of weapons from one warehouse to another that you control by a speed setting in the ME.

Helos can pick up and move a handful of objects via sling, but that's not really logistics, as it isn't inventory, it's just an object with a weight set in the ME (yes, you can make the slingable objects whatever weight you want; just be sure to check it when using them, as by default... they're insanely overweight).

 

CTLD, a script from the community, is the only thing that makes this helo serve a purpose [as of, and up to, Spring 2024].

 

 

For the record; I'm not against it; I'm a fan of the Yak ... I wish I had a reason to fly it more (I wish it would be ... finished. It's literally the "most simple" module in the entire game, and despite being 6 years old now, is still Early Access.) Meanwhile, the CEii from Magnitude/Leather/whoever you want to call them, is also in EA nightmare with bugs left and right...
I want to enjoy these modules; and I was massively looking forward to the A-29, but it seems that's no longer happening.

The issue is DCS and ED and their third parties' ability to finish these modules; it doesn't seem anything is giving them a reason to actually "complete" them.

 

The no-boom is boring in the case of the CH47 is that as it stands; DCS is offering a serious "war machine," but it's incapable of doing ... what it's capable of doing.

Meanwhile they're talking about it being able to A2A refuel; and not a single picture shown off shows one with a refuel probe. About it being crewed by several people; and yet not a single mention of it being multicrew. The tease two years ago was a different model entirely. The tease video shows mods; and not even their own content, to make things even more confusing for the public.

 

I'd love for this module to be what it should be in DCS; but, ED has yet to show us any of that.

And yes, trust me, I love helos as much as the next person, and absolutely will buy the Kiowa; but only for two reasons: 1. It won't be EA. 2. It can serve a function in DCS outside of free roaming.

Neat cockpit in this thing; but.. last neat cockpit from ED was the A10Cii, and it took 4 years for them to make a radio for that thing..... just saying.

 

Is it likely to be better flight wise than any other version in other flight sims? Yes... most likely. But there's also no mention of normal things to expect in DCS; no mention of multicrew, no mention of what the FMS will even be capable of; since we're all well aware DCS has zero navaids; and a broken ILS system still at that.

If, for you the reader, this is to "replace" a CH47 in other flight sims (or in place of said CH47s in other sims as you waited out for this one), just because it's near and dear to your heart though... I'm all for it; I can't wait to hear it flying around... because it is a wicked machine.

But as far as DCS' ecosystem goes.... be extremely careful of where you're setting your expectations.

ED having butterfly syndrome when it comes to finishing their products is well know. Just ask any of us that fly WW2 DCS.

I'll use the Chinnock the same way as I've used the Huey. Doing troop transport in and out of hot LZs or Medivac under fire.

The difference is that unlike the Huey the Chinnock actually did this in a modern combat environment. It fits great into Syria map, it will fit perfectly into Afghanistan and Iraq maps. 

I would rather have a full fidelity blackhawk that let's me drop soldiers by rope or do Medivacs. 

But Chinnock is still far more useful for this vs Huey. Huey will come into it's own with Vietnam map(which I hope will lead to a Huey face lift) or on the central Europe cold war map that may or may not have been teased in the Chinnock trailer.

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

If it needs 3rd party scripting to get logistics in any mission SP/MP, if ED does not include a new logistics model in the feature list for the Chinook pre order then all they are really selling is a flying module with nothing it can do really.

A flying module? In simulator? Outrageous! Obviously it flies and have basic avionics functional. Sure, they failed to decide on more than three sentences of its features but it's still up to you, if you like the aircraft enough to fly. Not a matter of the features that were not in DCS before.

Any logistics feature needs to be added to DCS core, not some particular module. We already have other transport capable helicopters and some aircraft to come.

[Schmidtfire]

There is no way Im pre-ordering until I know what's happening to 5 (!) of my current DLC purchases, the F-4E Winter pre-order that keeps slipping, and especially not
without a comprehensive Ch-47F feature list or information about a new DCS logistics system.

Im sure it will end up a good module, but Im not ready to expand the circus until things settles down a bit  

Hopefully all of this will be resolved before the Ch-47F pre-purchase ends. 

[Hotdognz]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

A flying module? In simulator? Outrageous! Obviously it flies and have basic avionics functional. Sure, they failed to decide on more than three sentences of its features but it's still up to you, if you like the aircraft enough to fly. Not a matter of the features that were not in DCS before.

Any logistics feature needs to be added to DCS core, not some particular module. We already have other transport capable helicopters and some aircraft to come.

I know what it is, they stated that, my comments are what's its going to add to DCS with a feature list that they didn't add yet.

My understanding is all it will be able to do is sling loading and at least that should be available at release (but who knows), as ED have no logistic support in DCS, we only have 3rd party's supply scripts that allow this to be done (CTLD), well currently know a lot of scripters who are giving up on the scripting side and leaving as ED supply's no support to them for that part of DCS, without the scripting guys DCS missions would be a hollow world.

The other transport helos in DCS also have multiple weapon loads out that can attached to them in the form or rockets and bombs and forward firing guns the Hook wont have this at all.

I like the Hook enough to fly it but ill stand by not buying it with the very limited information given, I have 3 other helos that can do logistics already.

Edited April 22 by Hotdognz

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, XCNuse said:

No, DCS offers no logistics short of an ETA model on shipment of weapons from one warehouse to another that you control by a speed setting in the ME.

I don't think that's entirely correct. We have transported AIM-120C's and other munitions before from one airport to another that affects the warehouse logistics. (By arming an aircraft with them, and then 'unloading' them the other end by disarming said aircraft), so the provision for the logistics already exists for using aircraft for transport.

It's a matter of whether ED has the foresight of allowing the loading of these same munitions into the CH-47 (as cargo obviously because the CH-47 can't use said munitions) .

As a coder I wouldn't imagine this would be too difficult to include during development of the CH-47 - but as a coder I also understand that assumptions from the outside of relative ease don't always reflect the truth when people can't actually see the code in question too. 

With 2 new major CTLD players on the horizon (CH-47 and C-130), I'm really hoping that ED have put some forward thinking into expanding DCS. Having a vehicle in the Chinook already hints that ED may have already been focusing on this. How far it goes we really won't know until they announce more information, or until after launch, but they seem to be holding their cards close to their chest (for now). 

[Slippa]

The plot thickens .

[Dangerzone]

9 minutes ago, Slippa said:

The plot thickens .

indeed.

What would be epic is if it included the following functions:

• Ability to load up weapons for transfer of items that affects warehousing.
   
• Ability to drive 'player drivable' vehicles in and out.
   
• Ability to load nearby non-player drivable cars in and out using menu. (With animation)
   
• Ability to load and unload troops, both by ramp on ground, as well as repelling by air (with animations)
   
• The ability to use as a mobile FARP. (Refuel & rearm) - with mission editor options as to whether it deploys as a full farp with unlimited weapon and fuel quantities, or only the warehouse quantity that it first flew with and/or what other logistic units carry there to add.
   
• The ability to fly it to a destination, unload a player drivable vehicle, and then switch to and drive that vehicle around using CA, and then later return as pilot to the Chinook at a later time.
   
• The ability to fly it to a destination, and then spawn into another aircraft separately with the Chinook remaining at it's current location as a milk cow. (And ability to spawn back into it at a later date and re-take control of Chinook) 
   
• The ability to act as a dynamic spawn point (FARP) for other players to spawn aircraft in at the location that it sets up as a FARP. (Dynamic / portable spawn location). 

Some of those I see as likely, others I see as maybe, and others I think I'm fantasizing about, but would still be epic to have.

Edited April 22 by Dangerzone