waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[VpR81]

27 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

The same thing that happened to you on the RB Discord happened to me on the ED forum. Can I say it's about racism?

Maybe it´s just me, but implying these issues are typical russian sounds like a form of racism. Don´t you think so?
I´m not on the ED discord, but i highly doubt that such a behavior is tolerated there:

response:

Or does ED tolerate things like this on their discord:





I doubt it...

[NineLine]

36 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

This is idiotic. What is so racist calling russians "russians"?  This garbage has to stop. This be the decade the politically correct destroyed the world.

I am Canadian by the way. And yes, judging people by where they live is not welcome here or on any of our socials. Generalizing about a person based on where they are born is sad and weird, please stay on topic. 

I know that there are some very toxic places out there right now, and I hate that people are getting beat up or treated poorly but we cannot control that. And discussing it here is not going to solve it. I will say I am disheartened by much of this because if/when this is solved it will just take longer to get over those feelings, if ever. 

[Neon_20]

It's in the best interest of both companies to solve this issue, parting ways in this fashion will hurt ED / DCS and obviously RB as well. Yet the Mirage 2000 sale needs to be halted, people that might be out of this drama loop, will buy a module that as it stands it's bugged. 

[lee1hy]

i tired refund  but  refused 

[Horns]

12 minutes ago, Neon_20 said:

It's in the best interest of both companies to solve this issue, parting ways in this fashion will hurt ED / DCS and obviously RB as well. Yet the Mirage 2000 sale needs to be halted, people that might be out of this drama loop, will buy a module that as it stands it's bugged. 

Oh man, I was thinking the M2K had to be the one module that was fine... damn. I flew that before the AdA changes got made, but it was still a hoot (largely thanks to a very helpful community on these forums) and I always meant to go back to it one day.

[NineLine]

17 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

i tired refund  but  refused 

Recently?

30 minutes ago, Neon_20 said:

It's in the best interest of both companies to solve this issue, parting ways in this fashion will hurt ED / DCS and obviously RB as well. Yet the Mirage 2000 sale needs to be halted, people that might be out of this drama loop, will buy a module that as it stands it's bugged. 

Please check again after the next patch and let me know, thanks.

[eFirehawk]

4 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Yes it's very possible for both sides to be wrong. Please see my posts earlier in this thread, when I offer plenty of feedback for ED and how they are handling the situation. At the same time though, I don't see ED hurling personal attacks at anyone which are completely uncalled for. One side is acting professionally the other is not. 

 

Of course ED is acting way more professional, this is way easier for them to do compared to a single digit team. If the story is true (that over 10 months payment is being withheld from RB), ED is the one that is sitting with the money, not RB. The differences in financial stress of that alone have a major impact on who has security and can delay, think and plan every move. Secondly, ED is a company, with other revenue streams coming in and, again, sitting with all the revenue from the SE - and being a company in this position they are not in a dire situation, and likely even have PR and legal people handing exactly this for them.

On the other side, we have a very small team of developers that didn't receive their income for nearly a year, kept working with their mouth shut and doing a quite good job with SE updates for over half a year. After that long of course they lost their composure! I can't comprehend how some people can think this isn't an extremely one sided battle with the smaller guys being at the bottom of the pit. The devs at RB likely got their private financial situations messed up from this as well rattling their days too, and, unlike ED, probably can't even afford whatever legal or PR resources or time to wait it out while it unfolds.

I highly doubt that most of us here after not getting paid for a couple of months would continue working on a complex project, keep going for over 6 months without complaining and then after nearly a year not losing it and struggling to keep the composed, friendly and professional emails going. Again, if the withheld payments are a fact, these guys are dealing not only with this terrible professional situation in addition to a torpedo shot at their personal lives as well.

Edit: I'm referring to the developers saying the overly emotional stuff at Discord, not the head of RB, for it is impossible to tell who's at fault at by how much, but the devs and us customers are the ones getting the short end of the stick, at least for now.

Edited June 4, 2024 by eFirehawk

[303_Kermit]

It's very sad story. No doubt it's a step back in development of DCS. Razbam - was no doubt best 3'rd party dev. It's nice form ED that they're ready to refund razbam modules. If it's true - I will definitely use that opportunity. We lost MiG-23, MiG-19, M2000 - for me it's a tragedy...

I would gladly trade F-16 and F-18 and Ka-50 for MiG-19 and hope for MiG-23. I love Cold war planes of '60 and '70.

I am old, and can't help to see how it eventually ends...

Edited June 4, 2024 by 303_Kermit

[lee1hy]

refused a refund for my RB product citing software license issues.
Yesterday

[tribbin]

2 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

refused a refund for my RB product citing software license issues.
Yesterday

They keep saying their refund-policy is per-case. Have no idea what that means. To me it seems random.

Edited June 4, 2024 by tribbin

[Horns]

52 minutes ago, eFirehawk said:

Of course ED is acting way more professional, this is way easier for them to do compared to a single digit team. If the story is true (that over 10 months payment is being withheld from RB), ED is the one that is sitting with the money, not RB. The differences in financial stress of that alone have a major impact on who has security and can delay, think and plan every move. Secondly, ED is a company, with other revenue streams coming in and, again, sitting with all the revenue from the SE - and being a company in this position they are not in a dire situation, and likely even have PR and legal people handing exactly this for them.

On the other side, we have a very small team of developers that didn't receive their income for nearly a year, kept working with their mouth shut and doing a quite good job with SE updates for over half a year. After that long of course they lost their composure! I can't comprehend how some people can think this isn't an extremely one sided battle with the smaller guys being at the bottom of the pit. The devs at RB likely got their private financial situations messed up from this as well rattling their days too, and, unlike ED, probably can't even afford whatever legal or PR resources or time to wait it out while it unfolds.

I highly doubt that most of us here after not getting paid for a couple of months would continue working on a complex project, keep going for over 6 months without complaining and then after nearly a year not losing it and struggling to keep the composed, friendly and professional emails going. Again, if the withheld payments are a fact, these guys are dealing not only with this terrible professional situation in addition to a torpedo shot at their personal lives as well.

Edit: I'm referring to the developers saying the overly emotional stuff at Discord, not the head of RB, for it is impossible to tell who's at fault at by how much, but the devs and us customers are the ones getting the short end of the stick, at least for now.

 

The only ones who may have been put under financial stress by ED are the owner/s of Razbam. Razbam's employees are owed their salaries regardless of whether the retailer (ED) is paying their boss. If RB stopped paying their workers Razbam are the ones at fault for that, 100%, so that doesn't excuse the devs' behavior towards ED, although it might excuse anything disparaging they have to say about Razbam as a business and maybe Prowler. To be clear, even if a court determined that ED were entitled to keep all revenue from Razbam sales for the entire period, these devs would still be owed their salaray - by Razbam.

[lee1hy]

4 minutes ago, tribbin said:

They keep saying their refund-policy is per-case. Have no idea what that means. To me it seems random.

 

ED needs to make an official declaration
wtf 

 

[Blackeye]

24 minutes ago, Horns said:

Razbam's employees are owed their salaries regardless of whether the retailer (ED) is paying their boss. If RB stopped paying their workers Razbam are the ones at fault for that, 100%, so that doesn't excuse the devs' behavior towards ED,

I think that would depend on their contracts which could make their salary dependent on the money stream from ED.

And even if that is not the case: If Razbam clearly doesn't have the money to pay their employees because ED doesn't pay, as a RB developer I'd be mad at ED too.

[Ignition]

ED will not refund the money spent on their store. You signed it when purchasing from their store.

This same situation can happen with any other 3rd party developer.

[Hammer1-1]

33 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

ED needs to make an official declaration
wtf 

 

When the VEAO Hawk went tats up, they refunded those who had the module less than Two Weeks™. I would likely assume that would be the case now.

[Horns]

20 minutes ago, Blackeye said:

I think that would depend on their contracts which could make their salary dependent on the money stream from ED.

And even if that is not the case: If Razbam clearly doesn't have the money to pay their employees because ED doesn't pay, as a RB developer I'd be mad at ED too.

Personally, I would need to see something convincing to believe employment law anywhere would allow salary to be dependent on a third party the employee couldn’t take action against, as would be the case here.

Regardless, anything the devs have to say about the transactions between ED and Razbam is second-hand at best, and either coming from someone who doesn’t know anything first hand, or being said by someone making excuses for not paying them, so sharing still isn’t helpful.

 

Edit: If Razbam told them they don’t have the money to pay salaries for that long, RB were essentially telling them they were insolvent, which opens up another Pandora’s box…

Edited June 4, 2024 by Horns
Last addition

[Ignition]

If Razbam made a mistake and breached the contract, why ED didn't say it to their customers to warn them for a posible problem with the refunds and future development?.

In the future we may not have anymore the F-15E nor the money, if that's the case I will not put any more cash in the ED store ever.

In 2 week it will be 1 year since the release of the F-15E.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

7 minutes ago, Ignition said:

If Razbam made a mistake and breached the contract, why ED didn't say it to their customers to warn them for a posible problem with the refunds and future development?.

Sounds plausible to me to try to reach an agreement behind the curtains.

[DaWu]

12 minutes ago, Ignition said:

If Razbam made a mistake and breached the contract, why ED didn't say it to their customers to warn them for a posible problem with the refunds and future development?.

In the future we may not have anymore the F-15E nor the money, if that's the case I will not put any more cash in the ED store ever.

In 2 week it will be 1 year since the release of the F-15E.

The year of the strike eagle lol. So sad. This module has so much potential 

[Blackeye]

35 minutes ago, Horns said:

Personally, I would need to see something convincing to believe employment law anywhere would allow salary to be dependent on a third party the employee couldn’t take action against, as would be the case here.

For the run of the mill office employee unlikely, but I've no idea what agreement those people living all over the world would have with the base in Ecuador(?) - I mean we're not talking huge corporations here, just a bunch of dudes working an a cool project.

35 minutes ago, Horns said:

Edit: If Razbam told them they don’t have the money to pay salaries for that long, RB were essentially telling them they were insolvent, which opens up another Pandora’s box…

Might be part of why they kept working on it so long - so they could get their payment once the money starts rolling in, instead of forcing it all to go down the drain and not getting much out of it if anything.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Blackeye

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, lee1hy said:

refused a refund for my RB product citing software license issues.
Yesterday

Send me a DM will see if I can help.

48 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

When the VEAO Hawk went tats up, they refunded those who had the module less than Two Weeks™. I would likely assume that would be the case now.

No this is different we are not limiting to two weeks in this case although we would like people to stick it out if you really don't want to we will try and work with you.

[Horns]

1 minute ago, Blackeye said:

For the run of the mill office employee unlikely, but I've no idea what agreement those people living all over the world would have with the base in Ecuador(?) - I mean we're not talking huge corporations here, just a bunch of dudes working an a cool project.

Might be part of why they kept working on it so long - so they could get their payment once the money starts rolling in, instead of forcing it all to go down the drain and not getting much out of it if anything.

 

Fair enough, as I say I’d have to see something to be convinced, but that’s me.

 I also find it difficult to believe they’d keep working that long unpaid *because* the business are unable to pay their bills - I don’t know how a worker could think it was likely you’d ever get paid at that point and throw good labor after bad, so to speak, but again, maybe that’s a matter of personal judgement, so I’m willing to agree to disagree.

[Bossco82]

Ive also been concerned about this since it went public. I own all Razbams modules including the South Atlantic map. Apart from the F-15E not being complete I was not too bothered. However now the Mirage 2000 is also broken. I have two modules that I cant use to their full potential. Myself and members of my Discord are wondering what to do. Im aware of several wanting some kind of refund for the F-15E especially. I want my 9g capable M2k back.

[RaisedByWolves]

They should keep selling razbam modules. Razbam  probably need the money. Wouldn’t want to see razbam under the queensboro bridge giving handjobs to bums.

[Ignition]

14 minutes ago, RaisedByWolves said:

They should keep selling razbam modules. Razbam  probably need the money. Wouldn’t want to see razbam under the queensboro bridge giving handjobs to bums.

The problem is Razbam is not receiving the money,  since a LONG time.

We know since Razbam said that and ED didn't negate it.