waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation what is the status?

[Mizzy]

2 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

Where's the ignore button?

Last resort but you are now on it

 

27 minutes ago, Oban said:

Try not to take it personally, it's the internet, there's no doubt that passions and frustrations are high, as are expectations, it's the nature of the beast sadly.

I don't really, but I am quite an emotional type of person and can get a bit riled with some people's ignorance, entertaining as it is I'm actually writing my Son's application for his software engineer degree apprenticeship while intermittently reading this. One never knows, he may one day be doing some coding for ED, at least he knows his IP will be safe with them

Mizzy

[Ignition]

Just now, Canada_Moose said:

RAZBAM have a chequered history in both Flight Simulator and DCS.

I only have the Harrier but I'm not holding my breath nor am I buying for one minute the line being peddled by RAZBAM as 100% truthful.

I find it very odd that statements posted by RAZBAM are being treated as gospel but anything from ED (including silence) is treated as insincere or untruthful when in reality its best for legal representation to do the talking behind the scenes.

I do think continuing to sell the modules with no warning to potential buyers is a bad call though.

After more than 2 months ED didn't mention ANYTHING, not even "we're still talking". There's no official announcement about refunds, we need to read this thread to know about it from posts of the CM.

 

[Rainmaker]

6 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

And I thank you for answering, was just curious to see the other another PoV that's all, Discord status didnt have a part as I dont frequent the RB discord.

lol, Cause I carry so many titles across so many discords, I'm like Barnes and Noble.

 

I didn’t assume as such FWIW. 

I have them on multiple discords.  As do other pilots, etc.   Me = not all that special. 

[Nightdare]

3 minutes ago, Ignition said:

After more than 2 months ED didn't mention ANYTHING, not even "we're still talking". There's no official announcement about refunds, we need to read this thread to know about it from posts of the CM.

Because the issue is still ongoing, not resolved, as such is there no definitive action possible

[Nasder]

20 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

 

If RB is the party conducting business in good fashion, I see every reason why they had to do what they did, a company can't operate on good faith alone

If your boss stops paying you, at a certain point, you'll stop working, you can't continue giving free service to the customer while the bills are piling up, sucks for the customer, but they should then take it up with your boss

I'll reiterate: when the subcontractor is the party conducting business in good fashion, because even I as a customer, can see a company taking measures against a contractor that does not hold up his/her end of the deal

(...still doesn't change that the company should make sure the customer gets inconvenienced as little as possible, though if it's a specialized service/product, getting replacement quickly is not a simple matter of hiring a new party)

I never said they should work for free. Razbam need to pay their workers.

Razbam as a company should secure an income (an income can come from more than once place) to pay their workers and keep the company running. How, what and such they can do in order to keep at it is up to the management of Razbam to decide and manage.

We can not say that any involved party did or did not hold their side of the contract, we know nothing about what the contract say. We got he said, she said which are just rumors and nothing else.

In my eyes a company should keep doing their side of a contract even if the other party may not have not held their side. Keep at it until it's settled by the legal teams, if not to keep their professionalism looking good and customer-base happy then at least to make sure they don't make anything worse while the dispute is in progress.

This is based on a company that has decent economy and is able to get an income to keep it going. They then could keep their end even at a loss, which they would most likely get back if they win the dispute.

But that's just my opinion on how I think good companies should handle situations like this.

Leaving the customer-base in the dust is never a good move, even if they say that they might come back and pick them up later, maybe...

In my eyes, Razbam will never look as good as they once did.

[Rainmaker]

41 minutes ago, Nasder said:

I never said they should work for free. Razbam need to pay their workers.

Razbam as a company should secure an income (an income can come from more than once place) to pay their workers and keep the company running. How, what and such they can do in order to keep at it is up to the management of Razbam to decide and manage.

We can not say that any involved party did or did not hold their side of the contract, we know nothing about what the contract say. We got he said, she said which are just rumors and nothing else.

In my eyes a company should keep doing their side of a contract even if the other party may not have not held their side. Keep at it until it's settled by the legal teams, if not to keep their professionalism looking good and customer-base happy then at least to make sure they don't make anything worse while the dispute is in progress.

This is based on a company that has decent economy and is able to get an income to keep it going. They then could keep their end even at a loss, which they would most likely get back if they win the dispute.

But that's just my opinion on how I think good companies should handle situations like this.

Leaving the customer-base in the dust is never a good move, even if they say that they might come back and pick them up later, maybe...

In my eyes, Razbam will never look as good as they once did.

Do you know that Ron has not been paying them?  All that has really been said openly is that the owner and devs have not been compensated for sales to this point. So you know that he hasn’t been paying them anything? 

[Nasder]

2 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Do you know that Ron has not been paying them?  All that has really been said openly is that the owner and devs have not been compensated for sales to this point. So you know that he hasn’t been paying them anything? 

Never said anything about such things. Only said that Razbam need to pay their workers. Nothing about if they did or not.

[Rainmaker]

1 minute ago, Nasder said:

Never said anything about such things. Only said that Razbam need to pay their workers. Nothing about if they did or not.

Then my mistake for misinterpreting the context of your post. 

Following not directed towards so don’t take it as such  

Perhaps the bigger reason being not for lack of money, but perhaps they all got fed up together, with not being compensated for their work and watching money being taken in for a product they were supporting and seeing no compensation from?  Not exactly a whole lot of reason to show up to work anymore or give support in that case.  Appears to be a pretty collective action in terms of decision making. 
 

[BIGNEWY]

A reminder to all 

1.2 Forum members must treat each other with respect and tolerance.

1.10 Product feedback and constructive criticism is encouraged when provided in a mature and courteous manner. However, feedback that is abusive, insulting or condescending is not welcome. Additionally, to bring up a particular issue repeatedly after it has already been acknowledged will be considered "trolling" - in such cases a warning will be issued to the author and the post will be removed.

For those of you constantly in a back and forth with each other in this thread I suggest you take a break, if it continues I will be handing warnings out. 

thank you 

[HWasp]

1 hour ago, Nasder said:

I never said they should work for free. Razbam need to pay their workers.

Razbam as a company should secure an income (an income can come from more than once place) to pay their workers and keep the company running. How, what and such they can do in order to keep at it is up to the management of Razbam to decide and manage.

We can not say that any involved party did or did not hold their side of the contract, we know nothing about what the contract say. We got he said, she said which are just rumors and nothing else.

In my eyes a company should keep doing their side of a contract even if the other party may not have not held their side. Keep at it until it's settled by the legal teams, if not to keep their professionalism looking good and customer-base happy then at least to make sure they don't make anything worse while the dispute is in progress.

This is based on a company that has decent economy and is able to get an income to keep it going. They then could keep their end even at a loss, which they would most likely get back if they win the dispute.

But that's just my opinion on how I think good companies should handle situations like this.

Leaving the customer-base in the dust is never a good move, even if they say that they might come back and pick them up later, maybe...

In my eyes, Razbam will never look as good as they once did.

 

Wow, I don't understand, why RB didn't think about this solution... It really is so easy. Just get money from somewhere else, and that's it.  

[exhausted]

2 hours ago, Nightdare said:

 

Wrong, knowledge is knowledge, it's reach is 100% fact, assumptions is gambling, it's reach is 0-100% so at best it's only as wide as actual knowledge

This is very flawed, since people learn to "know" incorrect things all the time. You  may be doing it now. Maybe you shouldn't stand so high on the soapbox? 

[Nightdare]

26 minutes ago, HWasp said:

 

Wow, I don't understand, why RB didn't think about this solution... It really is so easy. Just get money from somewhere else, and that's it.  

It's not easy, but selling 1 product is risky

We had a wallet maker hiring production space at our company that saw his business die within a year his patent expired

 

Razbam only doing one 3d plane for a single game company would mean they die the moment this company would not require their services anymore

3 minutes ago, exhausted said:

This is very flawed, since people learn to "know" incorrect things all the time. You  may be doing it now. Maybe you shouldn't stand so high on the soapbox? 

 

knowing incorrect things is to the contrary of "having knowledge", if you knew, you would be correct, it's not a case of semantics

[exhausted]

17 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

It's not easy, but selling 1 product is risky

We had a wallet maker hiring production space at our company that saw his business die within a year his patent expired

 

Razbam only doing one 3d plane for a single game company would mean they die the moment this company would not require their services anymore

 

knowing incorrect things is to the contrary of "having knowledge", if you knew, you would be correct, it's not a case of semantics

Only you are using semantics. Just above your reply to me you used speculation in place of what you consider to be true knowledge. My statement about your soapbox stands.

[dSAF Dancer]

2 hours ago, Nasder said:

I never said they should work for free. Razbam need to pay their workers.

Razbam as a company should secure an income (an income can come from more than once place) to pay their workers and keep the company running. How, what and such they can do in order to keep at it is up to the management of Razbam to decide and manage.

We can not say that any involved party did or did not hold their side of the contract, we know nothing about what the contract say. We got he said, she said which are just rumors and nothing else.

In my eyes a company should keep doing their side of a contract even if the other party may not have not held their side. Keep at it until it's settled by the legal teams, if not to keep their professionalism looking good and customer-base happy then at least to make sure they don't make anything worse while the dispute is in progress.

This is based on a company that has decent economy and is able to get an income to keep it going. They then could keep their end even at a loss, which they would most likely get back if they win the dispute.

But that's just my opinion on how I think good companies should handle situations like this.

Leaving the customer-base in the dust is never a good move, even if they say that they might come back and pick them up later, maybe...

In my eyes, Razbam will never look as good as they once did.

But thats the thing that is the big question around the Situation. One possibility is, that razbam made the statement just to get the public opinion in their favour and put pressure on ED (which if that was the case backfired quite spectacularly as a big portion of the people is angry at them and not ED).

The other option is that razbam was working without getting payed by ED already for a long time doing exactly what you suggested and keeping the issue behind closed doors while trying to solve them with ED. At some point they simply were not able anymore to pay salaries to their freelancers and or direct employees anymore and that is why they had to pull them from DCS development and  made the statement of halting development just out of necessity as the pitchforks would have been out even more violently if it was just no updates without any announcement.

 

Now my guess would be that the reality is somewhere in between those two scenarios but that is only my personal guess.  We dont even know if or for how long they did not receive payments, and even if they actually did not receive payments we have no idea if that is justified by some breach of contract on their side, but lets just hope they can settle this in some form or way outside of court, because if this goes to court in switzerland (or werever it is agreed on in their contract), it will be months or even years until we get a resolution.

[afnav130]

18 hours ago, Oban said:

Nice deflection !! How many times are you going to ignore the question about whom their employer is, and what's their terms and conditions state about remuneration?

You constantly keep ignoring the FACT that ED will not comment publically, despite the numerous times you've been told by the moderation team.

FACT, you do not know the reason for payment being witheld, and neither do the alleged "people you trust" , either show their contracts seeing as you want accountability and visibility, it works both ways.

I'm not the one needing a lawyer, it's your colleagues, and the parties involved in this dispute.

Don't pretend you know the "bigger picture " either, because you don't, and neither do your alleged colleagues. I don't need a lwayer to know you're just pissed off because ED are not playing YOUR game.

FACT is they haven't said they have or have't been paying. So you are stating something that they haven't publicly stated? The true reason, nobody knows. But here you are saying ED has been withholding funds which nobody knows for sure outside of the RB people and what they have stated. So are you agreeing with them on this? I would assume so. 

Like I said, I think you need a lawyer so you don't get yourself twisted into a pretzel. Pissed off? Hardly, the DCS world isn't even in the top 5 of my daily life events or even top of my fun list. I don't care who comes out on top in all of this, just that it gets resolved and resolved asap. That would require as I stated the principles on both sides growing up and fixing it sans lawyers for the betterment of the group in general. Cooler heads always prevail and then that doesn't happen, this is what you get. As I also stated a while ago, nobody is covered in glory here and each entity will have a permanent stain on them. 

[Hammer1-1]

1 minute ago, afnav130 said:

Hardly, the DCS world isn't even in the top 5 of my daily life events or even top of my fun list. I don't care who comes out on top in all of this, just that it gets resolved and resolved asap.

For someone who supposedly doesnt have a dog in this fight, you sure do fight it quite hard.

[NineLine]

Please find the new discuss thread here:

 

[Hammer1-1]

guessing 94 pages is the forum code limit?

[NineLine]

Just now, Hammer1-1 said:

guessing 94 pages is the forum code limit?

No, but possibly mine and BN's limit

[OnkelFester]

I am looking forward to the future, hopefully with a resolution that makes everyone happy. Especially us customers. I really want to see the F15E feature complete, and even more so, the Mig23. TBH I don't care who needs to do what, just make it so. 
Cheers.

[MustangSally]

@NineLine & @BIGNEWY You do realise that after only a few pages, the first post will be forgotten and it'll be back to he says, she says!

[NineLine]

Just now, MustangSally said:

@NineLine & @BIGNEWY You do realise that after only a few pages, the first post will be forgotten and it'll be back to he says, she says!

Well as I said in the OP, we may moderate a little harder this time. People do not have to agree with each other, but at least play nice.

[Mizzy]

8 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Well as I said in the OP, we may moderate a little harder this time. People do not have to agree with each other, but at least play nice.

And my apologies for getting pissed off when it was unnecessary. I am passionate about DCS and how far it has come since my first registration here back in 2005, yes I go back that far.

Best wishes

Mizzy

[corvey]

"We want to reaffirm our unwavering commitment to this exceptional community, our current customers, and prospective clients. Unfortunately, due to circumstances completely beyond our control, we are temporarily unable to continue our work at this time."

Implementing a time bomb in the radar system code is beyond your control, Razbam?  Seriously?  Holding the F15-E radar code hostage sounds more like a terrorist threat against an "exceptional community"  instead of a coincidental bug to me.

I keep holding on resisting the refund route hoping you all pull your head out of your assess and resolve this for the good of all mankind and go out in a blaze of glory instead of infamy.  It's hard to believe I'm witnessing career suicide here, but I am if this doesn't work itself out.  

Does this refund exception policy offer expire?  I hope not, because I don't want to miss that chance if this needs to happen...

 

Edited June 17 by corvey

[Beirut]

38 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Dear Customers and Community,

We want to reaffirm our unwavering commitment to this exceptional community, our current customers, and prospective clients.

Ron Z.

 

Uhhhh, apparently not, eh?