Feedback Thread - Tomcat Update July 11th 2024 - F-14 A/B Complete Rework of Engine Sounds

[Mike Busutil]

Awesome update HB. The F-14 feels even better now. 

[westr]

On 7/12/2024 at 1:31 PM, REDEYE_CVW-66 said:

The new sounds are less than impressive. The same sound is produces from the sides and back. Cutting to the front those sounds disappear and you are left with a sound sample that has very audible clues that loop, that are jarring. The planes should sound different from the side- the front and the back, and the crossfading between these should be soft and overlapping to make a realistic sound picture. This does not. Hardly any audible difference between idle and full mill from the side. The Hornet and Viper (and I am sure others) does this VERY well.

The old AB sound has audible clues (you can hear it looping) still.

The Tomcat still has absent sound when you press fly-by the first time (It pops in after a few seconds). This is an age old issue that ONLY the Tomcat has and has had since day 1.

Before someone comes to smack me around for daring to fault HB; I think Heatblur is THE premiere 3rd party developer and love how they push the evenlope. That said; sound wise after a "full rework", I still think it needs tuning....

You shouldn’t feel unable to critique developers if you feel you have justification and it’s done with respect, that’s how we solve things eventually.
I’ve not heard the sounds yet as I’m away I’m eagerly awaiting them as I’ve never felt the A in particular sounded quite right. I’m hoping they get it just right. 

[westr]

On 7/13/2024 at 4:32 AM, Scotch75 said:

What was wrong with the TCS?

Cheers!


Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
 

Some people are finding the tcs doesnt work in the multithread version me included. The reason for the problem still has yet to be found. There is a workaround you need to load your mission twice after that the tcs in cockpit loads fine. 

[speed-of-heat]

2 hours ago, westr said:

Some people are finding the tcs doesnt work in the multithread version me included. The reason for the problem still has yet to be found. There is a workaround you need to load your mission twice after that the tcs in cockpit loads fine. 

Flappie has said that the issue is replicable, by the test team and has now been bugged, there are a number of "MFD errors" when the TCS fails to load.

[Cobra847]

3 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Flappie has said that the issue is replicable, by the test team and has now been bugged, there are a number of "MFD errors" when the TCS fails to load.

Yes, hope we can fix this soonest

[Indianajon]

I'm absolutely loving the new sounds! Thanks HB team!

[DoorMouse]

On 7/12/2024 at 8:45 AM, Coragem said:

Not selected, old sounds had a lot more nuance, much better idle to mil transition and even with increase A/B noise in cockpit selected old sounds had better AB engaging tud. A simple solution would be to reduce the level of the high pitch whine and raise the engine level. Or give us a slider to adjust the whining sound separete from the engine or maybe a option to disable it completly so the engine can be heard again.

As someone said on another reply above, the B is sounding as underpowered and just like the A now with the new sounds.

I can't hear the afterburner sounds while in the cockpit- i'll have to try that.  

It was really noticeable. I thought my throttles weren't working and had to check my instruments/ask someone else to see if the burners were on.  

[draconus]

From earlier conversations with SME it was concluded that neither RPM changes nor AB are really heard IRL in the helmet/cockpit so I don't understand some users' complaints or demands. Yes, constant engines whine and ECS is what the pilot hears all the time. Nevertheless I did not have problems hearing RPM or AB in both A and B after sounds overhaul.

Say goodbye to the "musical tone" in the A

I confirm the problem with the canopy not affecting the engine sounds at all.

Pity that cockpit switches/levers sounds are still not connected to the DCS switches audio slider and are still unrealistically loud.

Edited July 17, 2024 by draconus

[DD_Fenrir]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

From earlier conversations with SME it was concluded that neither RPM changes nor AB are really heard IRL in the helmet/cockpit so I don't understand some users' complaints or demands. Yes, constant engines whine and ECS is what the pilot hears all the time. Nevertheless I did not have problems hearing RPM or AB in both A and B after sounds overhaul.

Say goodbye to the "musical tone" in the A

I confirm the problem with the canopy not affecting the engine sounds at all.

Pity that cockpit switches/levers sounds are still not connected to the DCS switches audio slider and are still unrealistically loud.

 

You have a short memory it appears. 

It has been explained to you already not just by me but also by HB reps as to the artistic reasoning that has driven the choices in sounds. 

Their product, their art, their choice.

I don’t understand why this such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

[draconus]

33 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

I don’t understand why this such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

Yeah, who'd expect realism in a study sim.

[Gun Jam]

I think the choice is made in a effort to bridge a feedback gap. We cant ask question to the rio, we cant feel things, we can't look in the mirror and confirm that coordinates are being entered and a thumbs up when complete. So some audio feedback is appreciated even if its not realistic.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Gun Jam said:

So some audio feedback is appreciated even if its not realistic.

An option would be even better.

[Gun Jam]

I can get behind that

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

15 hours ago, Gun Jam said:

some audio feedback is appreciated even if its not realistic.

I know perfectly well when my throttle is moved past its physical detent: no need for audible reheat in the cockpit

 

I have asked myself earlier for the audio to be linked to the DCS sliders, so people who do want those sounds can have them. Everybody wins!

[wadman]

On 7/17/2024 at 10:22 AM, draconus said:

Yeah, who'd expect realism in a study sim.

It’s actually a game.  Regardless, these “sims” will always lack the physical feedback/cues that a pilot would experience in the real world.  So… having things like audible cues that might not be exactly realistic can be a good thing to help make up for the gaps!

Edited July 19, 2024 by wadman

[RustBelt]

2 hours ago, wadman said:

It’s actually a game.  Regardless, these “sims” will always lack the physical feedback/cues that a pilot would experience in the real world.  So… having things like audible cues that might not be exactly realistic can be a good thing to help make up for the gaps!

 

You can’t explain the Fidelity Paradox to the Hard Core Sim players. They always want fidelity over usability, and they’ll always complain about the problems that fidelity causes them. It’s a core reason game devs wholesale abandoned Flight Sims at the turn of the century. Players are much more accepting of Simulacra in other game genres to enhance playability. 

[draconus]

If it is not realistic it's simply unacceptable for me. Feel free to go shaming on me for that. I don't need a sim to compensate for anything as I already have other means to do that like VR, ffb, shaker seats, motion platforms, even full pit replicas if I so wish.

The hardcore, the realism, the challenges of the RL pilots are The Fun and Playability for me and I expect that from combat flight study simulator. I get that not all players are hardcore so any deviations can be made optional in game but when they are forced on me, that's when I'll post my displeasure, every single time. That's all. Unfortunately I find most of these "compensations" in the Tomcat, an otherwise great module.

[RustBelt]

Even Full motion level-D sims aren’t real. They’re good ENOUGH. But even they fall short by a lot. You’re never getting real. 
 

edit: well maybe by the time NuralLink brought to you by X all praise the Elon rolls out. But, at that point the ads being fed straight into your brain will probably be too distracting to manage much more than a Harrison Bergeron level of attention.

Edited July 19, 2024 by RustBelt

[wadman]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

If it is not realistic it's simply unacceptable for me. Feel free to go shaming on me for that. I don't need a sim to compensate for anything as I already have other means to do that like VR, ffb, shaker seats, motion platforms, even full pit replicas if I so wish.

The hardcore, the realism, the challenges of the RL pilots are The Fun and Playability for me and I expect that from combat flight study simulator. I get that not all players are hardcore so any deviations can be made optional in game but when they are forced on me, that's when I'll post my displeasure, every single time. That's all. Unfortunately I find most of these "compensations" in the Tomcat, an otherwise great module.

Game developers (as much as you claim otherwise, this is still game - very detailed, but still a computer game) would go bankrupt if they made products targeted to people like you.

Gamers might have a hotas, pedals and VR - but even with all of the other things that you mention that you have, you are not even remotely getting the experience that a real pilot has.

That said, I’d be OK to allow the unrealistic things to be tuned off for folks like you - but don’t make the rest of us suffer in the name of ”fidelity” when these “sims” can never deliver an experience that is close to real life.

Edited July 19, 2024 by wadman

[draconus]

3 hours ago, RustBelt said:

Even Full motion level-D sims aren’t real. They’re good ENOUGH. But even they fall short by a lot. You’re never getting real. 

Get real, man, we're talking about DCS module here.

2 hours ago, wadman said:

Game developers (as much as you claim otherwise, this is still game - very detailed, but still a computer game) would go bankrupt if they made products targeted to people like you.

Gamers might have a hotas, pedals and VR - but even with all of the other things that you mention that you have, you are not even remotely getting the experience that a real pilot has.

That said, I’d be OK to allow the unrealistic things to be tuned off for folks like you - but don’t make the rest of us suffer in the name of ”fidelity” when these “sims” can never deliver an experience that is close to real life.

You say it like it was something secret or special knowledge. Of course flight sims are subgenre of computer games. And I'm totally fine with DCS fidelity and I know the current limitations. I had a chance to have RL flight experience - I know the difference.

I don't think HB would go bankrupt if they didn't make loud switches or distorted throttle range - that's silly. I might not know other modules that thoroughly but I couldn't find such compensations in other modules - and if present - they were optional.

The module is great and these are very small details. That makes it so reachable - they're so close to make it perfect imho. And to not make anyone suffer in the process - just make it an option

[captain_dalan]

On 7/17/2024 at 4:22 PM, draconus said:

Yeah, who'd expect realism in a study sim.

The last time i looked, DCS is a flight simulator game, not a cockpit simulator game.

On 7/18/2024 at 9:07 AM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I know perfectly well when my throttle is moved past its physical detent: no need for audible reheat in the cockpit

 

I have asked myself earlier for the audio to be linked to the DCS sliders, so people who do want those sounds can have them. Everybody wins!

Alas, if only everyone could afford such appliances.

On 7/19/2024 at 6:25 AM, RustBelt said:

You can’t explain the Fidelity Paradox to the Hard Core Sim players. They always want fidelity over usability, and they’ll always complain about the problems that fidelity causes them. It’s a core reason game devs wholesale abandoned Flight Sims at the turn of the century. Players are much more accepting of Simulacra in other game genres to enhance playability. 

That's because their definition of "fidelity" has a rather "selective" meaning. I mean, who cares if you felt it, as long as it makes the right sound, right?  
 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

5 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

Alas, if only everyone could afford such appliances

That’s why settings such as “loud afterburner” are available

[captain_dalan]

Just now, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That’s why settings such as “loud afterburner” are available

Ideally, ability to customize pitch and amplitude of the sounds would solve everyone's issues, but it may not be a developer's choice. 

[Nightdare]

Really like the added power, before, the bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it!

[Viper33]

Were the missing sound files added with the July 22 update?