DCS: Cold War Germany - preview

[Northstar98]

Again, pretty impressed with the accuracy - most maps barely bother with military POIs past airfields and getting them pretty accurate to boot, so this is eally fantastic to see

I mean, the only thing I can comment on are very minor things (the tower at Teufelsberg isn't quite correct and the radome at Bitburg in amongst the shelters seems to be a modern day thing - it's not there in 2017 imagery and before), but these are such minor things I'm almost reaching.

With the grass around the runway at Bitburg and numerous other locations, it does look a bit too dug up, as though the airbase was only recently constructed or had major works done - it's a minor thing for me though, definitely nowhere near to put me off.

Is it possible to see some air defence sites? If at least empty HAWK, S-75, -125 and -200 sites are present in the right places, suitable for placing units on, then I will be absolutely sold - Ugra have already developed perfectly accurate launcher revetments for the S-75 - they only need a retexture and they'd be perfect for Germany. 

I'd also mention EWR sites, though if these are going to be produced, please make the radomes hollow static objects, instead of a scenery object, leaving a flat base or tower with a flat top, suitable for placing usable radars onto. The radome can then be placed by mission editors over the top. This way we could have EWR sites that not only look accurate, but are actually usable in missions. If they're scenery objects, they'll only do the former and won't be usable.

Edited March 24 by Northstar98

[MAXsenna]

Can we please skip the unrealistic dust effects where helicopters blow dust anywhere?
I love the new dust effects, but they should be limited to where they can actually occur.
Cheers!

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[Esac_mirmidon]

There is a mod to reduce dust and spray for helicopters

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3335103/

[MAXsenna]

There is a mod to reduce dust and spray for helicopters
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3335103/

Thanks! I would just like it to be region and surface appropriate. Like desert versus grass.

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[RhineHornet]

About 5 years ago I was working on several Bitburg Eagles skins for DCS... I never uploaded/released them. A lot of research went into them. At that time I got dragged into the visual beauty of MSFS (I am sorry.. ) also my computer back then would increasingly degrade in performance within DCS World.
 

Now with this amazing new Cold War map around the corner (which I never thought possible!), I think I need to recover the files from my old desktop, check and finalize them for release so they can actually fly in their natural habitat - Cold War Germany

Edited March 23 by RhineHornet

[MBot]

58 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Is it possible to see some air defence sites? If at least empty HAWK, S-75, -125 and -200 sites are present in the right places, suitable for placing units on, then I will be absolutely sold - Ugra have already developed perfectly accurate launcher revetments for the S-75 - they only need a retexture and they'd be perfect for Germany. 

I'd also mention EWR sites, though if these are going to be produced, please make the radomes hollow static objects, instead of a scenery object, leaving a flat base or tower with a flat top, suitable for placing usable radars onto. The radome can then be placed by mission editors over the top. This was we could have EWR sites that not only look accurate, but are actually usable in missions. If they're scenery objects, they'll only do the former and won't be usable.

I would also be very interested to see the SAM sites. Also very good call about the usability of the EWR sites. Here is an idea. Is it possible in DCS to make the pedestial+radome a scenery object but not include a hitbox for the radome (or perhaps just leaving the hitbox open on top)? Perhaps that way a usable radar unit can be placed in the mission editor atop the scenery pedestal that would then go inside the radome.

I am very excited about this map, it seems that Ugra is again doing a first class job here. Comparing the level of detail that Ugra is previewing here, with things like military bases or modeling of coastlines, makes it painfully obvious what a substandard effort the Kola map really is. I was looking forward so much for Kola as my primary, cold war themed map in DCS. But it has been pretty disappointing so far. It seems that Ugra will finally fulfill my need.

[Northstar98]

4 minutes ago, MBot said:

Here is an idea. Is it possible in DCS to make the pedestial+radome a scenery object but not include a hitbox for the radome (or perhaps just leaving the hitbox open on top)? Perhaps that way a usable radar unit can be placed in the mission editor atop the scenery pedestal that would then go inside the radome.

It seems this is already possible, with the hitbox retained - so all we need is a radome static object and for any tower/pedastal etc to have a flat top and we're good.

If you see the contents of the spoiler in this post, you can see my attempt at a crude example (in this case I stuck a P-19 on top of a tower block, then stuck one of the M92 shelters over the top).

My main concern is weapons, however even with the shelters used in the above example, every ARM was able to at least disable or destroy the radar inside. What I'm not confident about are cluster bombs and gun rounds, but this could be easily resolved, either by making the life of the radome miniscule or to have it without a hitbox as you suggested.

9 minutes ago, MBot said:

I am very excited about this map, it seems that Ugra is again doing a first class job here. Comparing the level of detail that Ugra is previewing here, with things like military bases or modeling of coastlines, makes it painfully obvious what a substandard effort the Kola map really is. I was looking forward so much for Kola as my primary, cold war themed map in DCS. But it has been pretty disappointing so far. It seems that Ugra will finally fulfill my need.

Couldn't agree more - on both counts.

[flanker1]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Retnek:

@MAESTR0 Another childhood in Cold-War-Germany here - all-in-all very promising, thanks! I really enjoy looking at the car-parks, good effect to place the proper set of cars. Could you please show some pictures / clips with covered skies and rain? Good old Germany looks a bit too friendly to me, it's clean and colourful right now. That might be an effect of good weather and sunshine.
But especially the centre of large cities, marshalling-yards and large factories appeared MUCH more dusty and gray-ish. In my memories at least. Brushing up the cities, more colours and less dirt came into effect in the (late) 1990th for the FRG. Remembering some journeys to the former GDR in the early 90th a "deep industrial over-all-grey-brown" was the omni-present primary colour. Even stronger than in the industrial areas of the FRG.

@MAESTR0 Absolutely right, exactly what needed to say with all respect for your amazing piece of art - please lower significant the colors to more shades of grey amd brown and much more worn out and polluted, especially in the former GDR - just one example: https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/ost-berlin-1980-2016/

Edited March 23 by flanker1

[Beirut]

That's a mighty tasty looking map. Looks like you could spend days just flying around and enjoying the map as a tourist taking in the sights.

 

...and then blow everything up. 

[Draus]

Is possible to buy early acces?

Im interested in (very early acces )

[OneEyeRoss]

50 minutes ago, Draus said:

Is possible to buy early acces?

Im interested in (very early acces )

I think most of us would be interested in VERY VERY early access!  Patience has never been my long suit.

I will be honest though, and say that my main interest is in the actual Fulda Gap region and flying helicopters.  Retired Army, so I spent my time on the ground in the Gap, not flying over it.  I am really enjoying the videos that have the jeeps driving around....it is looking SO good.

Edited March 23 by OneEyeRoss

[jackd]

Great news, and a ww2 version would be nice but probably too much to ask for ..

[MAXsenna]

Great news, and a ww2 version would be nice but probably too much to ask for ..

We can hope for a paid one, right?

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[Hotdognz]

With this much interest in the map will the DCS ground assets match the year it's based on or are we lacking historical units to truly make this a good CW map, if we are does ED plan to add CW assets we can use.

 

[Woogey]

15 hours ago, RhineHornet said:

About 5 years ago I was working on several Bitburg Eagles skins for DCS... I never uploaded/released them. A lot of research went into them. At that time I got dragged into the visual beauty of MSFS (I am sorry.. ) also my computer back then would increasingly degrade in performance within DCS World.
 

Now with this amazing new Cold War map around the corner (which I never thought possible!), I think I need to recover the files from my old desktop, check and finalize them for release so they can actually fly in their natural habitat - Cold War Germany

These BT liveries look very nice please do release them.  I especially like that you got the color stencils in for the early Ghost scheme.  Great job!  

[ShinyMikey]

8 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

With this much interest in the map will the DCS ground assets match the year it's based on or are we lacking historical units to truly make this a good CW map, if we are does ED plan to add CW assets we can use.

 

This is a 1980s map. The vast vast majority of units we have in DCS fit this map in this time period.

[Fanki 17]

Any estimations on how much storage the terrain will need?

[Northstar98]

On 3/24/2025 at 11:11 AM, ShinyMikey said:

This is a 1980s map. The vast vast majority of units we have in DCS fit this map in this time period.

While most assets are late Cold War, there are a few notable things we're missing, chief amongst which:

• Air defence radars (AN/TPS-43E/F, AN/FPS-67C and 90/-6C for NATO, P-12M/P-18, P-14, P-37 and P-80 for the USSR/GDR)
• Cold War MANPADS (chiefly the 9K32M Strela-2M [SA-7B Grail], maybe early Stinger/late Redeye and Blowpipe/Javelin).
• A couple of air defence systems like Nike Hercules, Bloodhound and the 2K11 Krug [SA-4 Ganef] (though many systems we currently have already fit)
• GSFG tanks (we don't have a single one - American and British Cold War tanks are also pretty thin and the DDR is missing the KPz T-72)
• Potentially more AI aircraft (especially those where full-fidelity modules are unlikely, such as the Harrier GR.3, Phantom FGR.2, F-4G, MiG-21/23 variants etc).

Edited March 27 by Northstar98

[OneEyeRoss]

4 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

While most assets are late Cold War, there are a few notable things we're missing, chief amongst which:

• Air defence radars (AN/TPS-43E/F, -67C/90 and -6C for NATO, P-12M/P-18, P-14, P-37 and P-80 for the USSR/GDR)
• Cold War MANPADS (chiefly the 9K32M Strela-2M [SA-7B Grail], maybe early Stinger/late Redeye and Blowpipe/Javelin.
• A couple of air defence systems like Nike Hercules, Bloodhound and the 2K11 Krug [SA-4 Ganef] (though many systems we currently have already fit)
• GSFG tanks (we don't have a single one - American and British Cold War tanks are also pretty thin and the DDR is missing the KPz T-72)
• Potentially more AI aircraft (especially those where full-fidelity modules are unlikely, such as the Harrier GR.3, Phantom FGR.2, F-4G, MiG-21/23 variants etc).

The M60A3 is appropriate for most NATO units up until about 1984 or so.  For those of us wanting to do late 70s (ok, yes, I am an old man reliving my youth) other than the RedEye I think we are fairly well covered.

[schurem]

F-111, both -E and EF-...

[draconus]

On 3/21/2025 at 6:00 PM, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

elevation by baked in "shadows".

They're not baked in as images. They're consistent with the light direction as I can see so it is obviously normal mapping textures and it's far more realistic than simple flat texture.

[draconus]

On 3/14/2025 at 6:09 PM, MAESTR0 said:

Please stay consistent with flag directions or even better, make them waving with the wind set in the mission

[Northstar98]

On 3/25/2025 at 3:36 AM, OneEyeRoss said:

The M60A3 is appropriate for most NATO units up until about 1984 or so.

It's appropriate past 84, however there's still a number missing.

The FRG for instance has the Leopard 1A3 and 2A4. Apart from GSFG everyone has a counterpart for the former, but not for the latter:

• GDR are missing the KPz T-72/M/M1 (largely similar to the T-72 Ural/Ural-1 and A)
• British are missing Challenger 1 (the Chieftain not a Mk.3 is however a fairly decent contemporary of the 1A3)
• US are missing the M1 and M1IP.
• GSFG has nothing at all (missing the T-62, T-64A/B/BV and T-80/B/BV)

Of course we do have stand-ins but from a historical perspective, we aren't well covered in this aspect. A similar thing could be said of Eastern Bloc APCs (chiefly missing the BTR-60PB/SPW-60PB though it's relevant capabilities aren't that great a difference between it and the BTR-80).

Onto things more relevant for DCS and aerial warfare, early warning radars are absolutely lacking - we only have the AN/FPS-117 for NATO and it's not relevant to the theatre for the timeframe. The Warsaw Pact only have the P-19, which is mostly just an SA-3 acquisition radar though has seen use as a PVO-SV early warning radar. The SA-2 and SA-5 are still without appropriate acquisition radars (though at least the P-19 doesn't significantly compromise the SA-2s range) and even stuff like the Tin Shield (which has seen use as a general-purpose EWR, in-fact that's primarily how it's used IRL) cannot be used as one in DCS.

Edited March 28 by Northstar98

[Stratos]

@MAESTR0

I asked before but got no answer. Will those BTR-60, and all the cars you show on the parking lots be usable in the ME as normal vehicles or are just map eye candy?

[Stratos]

29 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

All stuff show on maps has always "atrezzo", that has build with diferent SDK (TDK). To use them on the mission editor require buiding them as EDM as a "assets pack".

I will wait the answer of the person I asked.